Poll: Are you for or against preventative maintenance?

Originally Posted by Master Po

These results are in no way scientific nor statistically valid.People say one thing, but when it comes down to opening up their wallets and deal with the inconveniences of not having a car, they do differently.
You'd get very different results if you made the survey at the mechnic's shop exit and asked people if they were there to fix a problem or to prevent one.

Why thank you for that! I didn't know!



I suppose we need a "scientific" test to see if people prefer drinking water or urine too.

And the very reason why you maintain your car is to prevent being at the "mechnic's" in the first place.

Originally Posted by E46Mango

Why thank you for that! I didn't know!



I suppose we need a "scientific" test to see if people prefer drinking water or urine too.

And the very reason why you maintain your car is to prevent being at the "mechnic's" in the first place.

People who do things by themselves are in the vast minority.
Even if every body agreed that preventive (yes, preventative sounds as ridiculous as irregardless) maintenance is the way to go, the vast majority would take their cars to the mechanic for that ounce of prevention.
So, yes, an exit poll at the mechanics would be more scientific than asking people on the intrawebz.
And I didn't create this poll, so take your pissy comment to the OP. I'm just saying your rejoicing on the results of this poll as if it proves your point has no merit.
Capiche?

Originally Posted by Master Po

People who do things by themselves are in the vast minority.
Even if every body agreed that preventive (yes, preventative sounds as ridiculous as irregardless) maintenance is the way to go, the vast majority would take their cars to the mechanic for that ounce of prevention.
So, yes, an exit poll at the mechanics would be more scientific than asking people on the intrawebz.
And I didn't create this poll, so take your pissy comment to the OP. I'm just saying your rejoicing on the results of this poll as if it proves your point has no merit.
Capiche?

No.

Originally Posted by Master Po

People who do things by themselves are in the vast minority.
Even if every body agreed that preventive (yes, preventative sounds as ridiculous as irregardless) maintenance is the way to go, the vast majority would take their cars to the mechanic for that ounce of prevention.
So, yes, an exit poll at the mechanics would be more scientific than asking people on the intrawebz.
And I didn't create this poll, so take your pissy comment to the OP. I'm just saying your rejoicing on the results of this poll as if it proves your point has no merit.
Capiche?

He's right in this regard. I definitely do not trust my (lack of) skills to do an entire cooling system overhaul, FCAB/RCABs, and other more difficult PM operations. The car is my DD. Messing one thing up, or delaying due to something being "put back incorrectly" is an inconvenience I cannot afford...

Love the banter= definitely two lines of thinking. We get *replace only when needed* because cash is tight. BUT as an owner of an item, we want to make sure it’ll function as designed and mechanical things break down. So, it’s tough to figure out when an *item* will fail. It’s almost like predicting the future because we all drive differently AND in different environments. Like the UK and Arizona= might as well be different planets (LoL). I can only speak for myself but the sense of accomplishment when you’ve replaced a known part that is subject to failure gives this e46 driver piece of mind and a great sense of accomplishment. HOWEVER, there are others out there that prefer to live on the edge--just hope there’s a friend that’ll pick you up OR you know of a friendly tow company nearby = my .02

Driving along I lost my alternator and had to be towed to a dealer. (Admittedly I've never heard of anyone proactively replacing their alternator) The dealer price is about 556 and then throwing in the flat labor rate and tax, I got handed a nine hundred dollar bill from my dealer. Let's not even get into the fact that I had to wait three hours for a tow, or ride about fifty miles in a tow truck and get a friend to pick me up from the dealer.
If instead I had proactively replaced this alternator, I could get the same brand re-manufactured unit (same as what I got from dealer) for about 250.
So when I learn all about which parts most likely strand people when they fail by extensively reading posts, I take the opportunity to increase the odds in my favor by buying the parts at great discounts and putting them in free with my own labor.
You've also got the economy of scale when everything in an area is exposed, replacing many parts takes advantage of that. The free labor is great and many parts are comparatively reasonably priced.

Originally Posted by Master Po

And I didn't create this poll, so take your pissy comment to the OP. I'm just saying your rejoicing on the results of this poll as if it proves your point has no merit.
Capiche?

He is the OP. He created this poll in response to another cooling system thread, and worded the poll in a way that conveniently skews the results in the direction he's looking for.

Originally Posted by Stinger9

Driving along I lost my alternator and had to be towed to a dealer. (Admittedly I've never heard of anyone proactively replacing their alternator) The dealer price is about 556 and then throwing in the flat labor rate and tax, I got handed a nine hundred dollar bill from my dealer. Let's not even get into the fact that I had to wait three hours for a tow, or ride about fifty miles in a tow truck and get a friend to pick me up from the dealer.
If instead I had proactively replaced this alternator, I could get the same brand re-manufactured unit (same as what I got from dealer) for about 250.
So when I learn all about which parts most likely strand people when they fail by extensively reading posts, I take the opportunity to increase the odds in my favor by buying the parts at great discounts and putting them in free with my own labor.
You've also got the economy of scale when everything in an area is exposed, replacing many parts takes advantage of that. The free labor is great and many parts are comparatively reasonably priced.

So why couldn't you have replaced the alternator yourself for $250 after it failed?

Originally Posted by Master Po

People who do things by themselves are in the vast minority.

In all seriousness, if this is true, I've been completely wrong about this whole preventative maintenance thing. I assumed that since this was an enthusiast website, most people here turned their own wrenches. For those that do their own work, entire cooling system rebuilds and "pro-active" alternator replacements are ridiculous ideas. If you don't know how to work on your car yourself, maybe preventative maintenance is a good idea. If Master Po's quote is true, I owe E46Mango an apology for the other thread. I still don't subscribe to the theory, but I understand your point.

Far away from home with no other car to use.
No place to work and no tools.
Also takes a couple of days to get mail order parts.

If I hung around home like most people, I'd be much more inclined to wait till things break.

Originally Posted by steve108819

So why couldn't you have replaced the alternator yourself for $250 after it failed?

For me: It depends. Things that can cause catastrophic failures I would replace preventatively. Everything else can wait until an actual failure

I am guessing that this is related to the cooling system thread from last week. And I see GoingNuts has chimed in with his "Quite long" trips of 150 miles in on a "Very Warm" day in England, which I am guessing was about 80 degrees. The fact that his temperature Gage stayed in the normal range is supposed to support the fact that his cooling system is in perfect condition. I did not have the heart to tell him that most cars will do the same thing right up to the point that the expansion tank blows up. It is usually not something that is progressive, like the car running warmer and warmer before a failure. Mine was running perfectly cool, right up to, and even after the cloud of steam came out from under my hood, when my expansion tank failed.
As far as preventative maintenance, the most common thing is the cooling system. And it will fail suddenly, and in a major way. So, replacing it after 80 to 100k miles is not unreasonable. And if you are already replacing one part, why not replace the hoses, the pump (which was a bad design, until about 2002 or so). It also makes sense to replace all of the sensors as well, at the same time. The high temp plastics used in the expansion tank and the hose connections and the water pump impeller will degrade over time, and fail. So, it is a good bet that if one part of the system fails, then the others are not far behind. The same thing applies to the vacuum hoses and intake boots. Other parts are debatable. I would not replace sensors just to replace them. But, if you are replacing your belts, then doing the pulleys, tensioners, and fan clutch just seems to make sense, since you are already in there. It also makes sense to me to go ahead and replace any sensors that you can get at with the other parts removed. I think this is part of the disconnect here. A lot of us will replace parts that are difficult to reach, if we have already removed all of the parts necessary to reach them. To me, it makes sense, on a high milage car. But this is also tied to your budget. If you can't afford to do this, then just repair the parts that failed. But, you will have to live with the knowledge that something buried deep inside of those parts you replaced may (and in my experience WILL) fail, and you will have to go back in again. That is what is at the core of a lot of the advice that you see on this forum. The problem is that not everyone is so diplomatic about handing out this advice, and will just call you an idiot for not replacing everything. I don't know if this is just frustration from giving out the same advice for years, and not realizing that some people are new to all of this, or if they are just a$$holes in general. Probably both.
There is nothing wrong with waiting for something to fail, and only fixing the part that fails. Most of what you read about doing everything at once is just the voice of experience. It is just not delivered well.
Of course, as with anything else, there are the fanatics, or just overly cautious people, who will replace parts simply because they can afford to, and it makes them feel better. That is why you should read as much as you can on a particular subject, and filter out the extremes.
I, for one, do believe that replacing the entire cooling system is reasonable, especially when you experience a failure of one of the items, or after you hit the 80k mile mark. Especially if you have a 1999 - 2002 model, with the poorly designed water pump and expansion tank. But, not replacing items that are part of the regular maintenance schedule, and waiting for them to fail, is just asking for trouble.

Originally Posted by Master Po

So, yes, an exit poll at the mechanics would be more scientific than asking people on the intrawebz.

Yes, that's a very good point, and definitely more scientific than what the OP is doing.

Aslo, if someone does a poll on whether shops should be allowed to engage in preventive maintenance on their own initiative, all the people responded here will say no to preventive maintenance. This will essentially invalidates the OP's poll. I don't care to waste my time. If someone else does the poll, it will be a laugh.

Since Kpeng will be coming back as a moderator, I think he would like to see everyone doing a modest amount of preventative maintenance on their cars.

^What he said.

He'd sticky all his "all you need to know" threads too. Something that needed to be done a LONG time ago.

Originally Posted by Gheybe

Since Kpeng will be coming back as a moderator, I think he would like to see everyone doing a modest amount of preventative maintenance on their cars.

If he detroys all the noobs first, there will be no one left to do the preventive maintenance.

Originally Posted by GoingNuts

If he detroys all the noobs first, there will be no one left to do the preventive maintenance.

He won't.

He'll just make everything easier to find so noobs don't have an excuse. I just can't wait. It needs to happen faster. I can't wait 2 months.

My thoughts..

First of all, I would like to raise awareness to all the OCD members on this forum.

Its a great idea to perform preventative maintenance, Iam talking only plugs, air filter, fuel filter, oil changes.
Now when it comes to doing a cooling overhaul, my only opinion is, the people are just bored and want to work on their car.

Okay, now for anyone that feels it's necessary to replace a disa valve, mas air flow sensor "just cause". Well that's just stupidity .

At anytime a part can fail on your car, leaving you stranded and lots of the times parts outlast their vehicles anyways.

which 22 people voted no?

Originally Posted by Hermes

which 22 people voted no?

I voted no because having been involved in the other thread I knew the angle the question was coming from. Read the other thread and than notice the timing of this thread. The intent of this poll was to garner support for the OP's position in the cooling system thread. Easy to do if you give the two options that were given. I am all for normal preventative maintenance, but knowing what I do of the OP's definition of PM, there was no way I could vote yes in his poll.