Poll: Are you for or against preventative maintenance?

Originally Posted by steve108819

I voted no because having been involved in the other thread I knew the angle the question was coming from. Read the other thread and than notice the timing of this thread. The intent of this poll was to garner support for the OP's position in the cooling system thread. Easy to do if you give the two options that were given. I am all for normal preventative maintenance, but knowing what I do of the OP's definition of PM, there was no way I could vote yes in his poll.

You can play with him by creating a counter-poll: Do you believe in preventative maintenance initaited by shop/dealer ?

Originally Posted by GoingNuts

You can play with him by creating a counter-poll: Do you believe in preventative maintenance initaited by shop/dealer ?

Not looking to do that, I just wanted to answer the question of why I voted no. Don't know why the 20 others did. Maybe they all were aware of the other thread too, and saw this poll for what it is.

now that i read some of them i do kind of understand your logic. I do Preventative maint... not Pre-Preventative maint. My belt is starting to get dried out so i'll get a new one soon but at the same time get underdrive pulleys, fix and upgrade at the same time. I have the VANOS kit in my garage right now because i have what i call an idle hiccup sometimes but just havent had time to do it yet. I kinda think I wanna do both together since i'll have everything apart.

But ET... not happeneing any time soon, mine is perfectly fine still and no leaks (only 65K, gonna be a while before I even think about it)

Originally Posted by Hermes

now that i read some of them i do kind of understand your logic. I do Preventative maint... not Pre-Preventative maint. My belt is starting to get dried out so i'll get a new one soon but at the same time get underdrive pulleys, fix and upgrade at the same time. I have the VANOS kit in my garage right now because i have what i call an idle hiccup sometimes but just havent had time to do it yet. I kinda think I wanna do both together since i'll have everything apart.

But ET... not happeneing any time soon, mine is perfectly fine still and no leaks (only 65K, gonna be a while before I even think about it)

Pre-preventative maintenance. I like that term because it sums up exactly what I've been getting at.

Originally Posted by GoingNuts

You can play with him by creating a counter-poll: Do you believe in preventative maintenance initaited by shop/dealer ?

Thats a great way to put it. No one will say yes to that.

"hey when we are in there replacing your water pump, even though none of them are bad yet, do you want us to replace your tstat, hoses, and expansion tank?"

Oh and I voted no.

I'm for!! (when i have money)

We came up to the mountain home yesterday. Brought 3 of the vehicles. Not a speck of trouble, thanks to preventative maintenance.

Because you'll get a new longer belt to use with the under-drive pulleys. And I travel with a spare one of those because no one would know what size to replace it with at a dealer or parts house. Got it for $15 on eBay or Amazon.

And when I did the vanos seals, it stopped a regular hiccup I had at idle.

And by the way, on my '04 with 80K miles I took apart the valve cover gasket and the old one was just as flexible and soft as the new one. This in contrast to many who have said that their old gasket was dried and brittle and crumbled. Mine peeled off perfectly. Of course I put a new one on for the $24 for the new part.

Originally Posted by Hermes

now that i read some of them i do kind of understand your logic. I do Preventative maint... not Pre-Preventative maint. My belt is starting to get dried out so i'll get a new one soon but at the same time get underdrive pulleys, fix and upgrade at the same time. I have the VANOS kit in my garage right now because i have what i call an idle hiccup sometimes but just havent had time to do it yet. I kinda think I wanna do both together since i'll have everything apart.

But ET... not happeneing any time soon, mine is perfectly fine still and no leaks (only 65K, gonna be a while before I even think about it)

Originally Posted by Stinger9

Because you'll get a new longer belt to use with the under-drive pulleys. And I travel with a spare one of those because no one would know what size to replace it with at a dealer or parts house. Got it for $15 on eBay or Amazon.

And when I did the vanos seals, it stopped a regular hiccup I had at idle.

And by the way, on my '04 with 80K miles I took apart the valve cover gasket and the old one was just as flexible and soft as the new one. This in contrast to many who have said that their old gasket was dried and brittle and crumbled. Mine peeled off perfectly. Of course I put a new one on for the $24 for the new part.

When changing to underdrive pulleys you have to use a different type of belt? Thought it would be the same one.

Originally Posted by steve108819

In all seriousness, if this is true, I've been completely wrong about this whole preventative maintenance thing. I assumed that since this was an enthusiast website, most people here turned their own wrenches. For those that do their own work, entire cooling system rebuilds and "pro-active" alternator replacements are ridiculous ideas. If you don't know how to work on your car yourself, maybe preventative maintenance is a good idea. If Master Po's quote is true, I owe E46Mango an apology for the other thread. I still don't subscribe to the theory, but I understand your point.

It's very simple: the world isn't binary or black and white.
Cars need both preventive maintenance and repair.
Taking things to either extreme is ridiculous. For example replacing each and every part by a certain date or mileage, regardless of their condition is not practical, if not absurd. OTOH, only fixing after something breaks is asking for trouble. For example, for cars that have a timing chain, waiting for it to fail first is going to cost you a whole new engine.
So, what to replace under prevention and what not?
The designers and makers of your cars know best. They've collected that information in your manuals, under maintenance schedule. They list the items that should be replaced by age or mileage. They also list the items that should be only inspected and replaced only if needed.

This poll is a fail.

Originally Posted by GoingNuts

You can play with him by creating a counter-poll: Do you believe in preventative maintenance initaited by shop/dealer ?

Replacing parts before they fail so you don't get stranded. It's as simple as that. I'd be willing to bet that more often than not, the people with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality live in huts out on prairies, listen to cassette tapes, and watch re-runs of MASH.

At the end of the day, those cars are more likely to break down. A lot more likely.

Originally Posted by Master Po

It's very simple: the world isn't binary or black and white.
Cars need both preventive maintenance and repair.
Taking things to either extreme is ridiculous. For example replacing each and every part by a certain date or mileage, regardless of their condition is not practical, if not absurd. OTOH, only fixing after something breaks is asking for trouble. For example, for cars that have a timing chain, waiting for it to fail first is going to cost you a whole new engine.
So, what to replace under prevention and what not?
The designers and makers of your cars know best. They've collected that information in your manuals, under maintenance schedule. They list the items that should be replaced by age or mileage. They also list the items that should be only inspected and replaced only if needed.

This poll is a fail.

So much fail that you had to come back to it over the span of several days and post 8 times.

Originally Posted by E46Mango

So much fail that you had to come back to it over the span of several days and post 8 times.

Fail again. Only 5.
Well 6 now.

So a longer belt is used in order to not move the tensioner pulley to a different position.
My underdrive pulley kit included two pulleys along with a new drive belt.
Where are you buying yours from?

Originally Posted by moiz21

When changing to underdrive pulleys you have to use a different type of belt? Thought it would be the same one.

Originally Posted by Stinger9

So a longer belt is used in order to not move the tensioner pulley to a different position.
My underdrive pulley kit included two pulleys along with a new drive belt.
Where are you buying yours from?

I havent decided. Didn't know the belts would be different. All sites I have checked out, didn't mentioned anything about replacing the belts. Will the belt typically be included? Where did you get yours from?

Originally Posted by MJLavelle

I am guessing that this is related to the cooling system thread from last week. And I see GoingNuts has chimed in with his "Quite long" trips of 150 miles in on a "Very Warm" day in England, which I am guessing was about 80 degrees. The fact that his temperature Gage stayed in the normal range is supposed to support the fact that his cooling system is in perfect condition. I did not have the heart to tell him that most cars will do the same thing right up to the point that the expansion tank blows up. It is usually not something that is progressive, like the car running warmer and warmer before a failure. Mine was running perfectly cool, right up to, and even after the cloud of steam came out from under my hood, when my expansion tank failed.
As far as preventative maintenance, the most common thing is the cooling system. And it will fail suddenly, and in a major way. So, replacing it after 80 to 100k miles is not unreasonable. And if you are already replacing one part, why not replace the hoses, the pump (which was a bad design, until about 2002 or so). It also makes sense to replace all of the sensors as well, at the same time. The high temp plastics used in the expansion tank and the hose connections and the water pump impeller will degrade over time, and fail. So, it is a good bet that if one part of the system fails, then the others are not far behind. The same thing applies to the vacuum hoses and intake boots. Other parts are debatable. I would not replace sensors just to replace them. But, if you are replacing your belts, then doing the pulleys, tensioners, and fan clutch just seems to make sense, since you are already in there. It also makes sense to me to go ahead and replace any sensors that you can get at with the other parts removed. I think this is part of the disconnect here. A lot of us will replace parts that are difficult to reach, if we have already removed all of the parts necessary to reach them. To me, it makes sense, on a high milage car. But this is also tied to your budget. If you can't afford to do this, then just repair the parts that failed. But, you will have to live with the knowledge that something buried deep inside of those parts you replaced may (and in my experience WILL) fail, and you will have to go back in again. That is what is at the core of a lot of the advice that you see on this forum. The problem is that not everyone is so diplomatic about handing out this advice, and will just call you an idiot for not replacing everything. I don't know if this is just frustration from giving out the same advice for years, and not realizing that some people are new to all of this, or if they are just a$$holes in general. Probably both.
There is nothing wrong with waiting for something to fail, and only fixing the part that fails. Most of what you read about doing everything at once is just the voice of experience. It is just not delivered well.
Of course, as with anything else, there are the fanatics, or just overly cautious people, who will replace parts simply because they can afford to, and it makes them feel better. That is why you should read as much as you can on a particular subject, and filter out the extremes.
I, for one, do believe that replacing the entire cooling system is reasonable, especially when you experience a failure of one of the items, or after you hit the 80k mile mark. Especially if you have a 1999 - 2002 model, with the poorly designed water pump and expansion tank. But, not replacing items that are part of the regular maintenance schedule, and waiting for them to fail, is just asking for trouble.

Holy fvck

You do not want to underdrive your A/C, so nothing changes there.

I got mine at UUC a few years ago. The new supplied belt is mentioned on their kit: http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/udp/

But be leary of ordering from UUC lately as you may unfortunately have the experience I had recently when I had to cancel my order after more than one month of no action to ship: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...one+bad&page=2

Originally Posted by moiz21

I havent decided. Didn't know the belts would be different. All sites I have checked out, didn't mentioned anything about replacing the belts. Will the belt typically be included? Where did you get yours from?

Originally Posted by Master Po

Fail again. Only 5.
Well 6 now.

Again, I'm glad all two of you agree.

Originally Posted by mjlavelle

originally posted by mjlavelle
i am guessing that this is related to the cooling system thread from last week. And i see goingnuts has chimed in with his "quite long" trips of 150 miles in on a "very warm" day in england, which i am guessing was about 80 degrees. The fact that his temperature gage stayed in the normal range is supposed to support the fact that his cooling system is in perfect condition. I did not have the heart to tell him that most cars will do the same thing right up to the point that the expansion tank blows up. It is usually not something that is progressive, like the car running warmer and warmer before a failure. Mine was running perfectly cool, right up to, and even after the cloud of steam came out from under my hood, when my expansion tank failed.
As far as preventative maintenance, the most common thing is the cooling system. And it will fail suddenly, and in a major way. So, replacing it after 80 to 100k miles is not unreasonable. And if you are already replacing one part, why not replace the hoses, the pump (which was a bad design, until about 2002 or so). It also makes sense to replace all of the sensors as well, at the same time. The high temp plastics used in the expansion tank and the hose connections and the water pump impeller will degrade over time, and fail. So, it is a good bet that if one part of the system fails, then the others are not far behind. The same thing applies to the vacuum hoses and intake boots. Other parts are debatable. I would not replace sensors just to replace them. But, if you are replacing your belts, then doing the pulleys, tensioners, and fan clutch just seems to make sense, since you are already in there. It also makes sense to me to go ahead and replace any sensors that you can get at with the other parts removed. I think this is part of the disconnect here. A lot of us will replace parts that are difficult to reach, if we have already removed all of the parts necessary to reach them. To me, it makes sense, on a high milage car. But this is also tied to your budget. If you can't afford to do this, then just repair the parts that failed. But, you will have to live with the knowledge that something buried deep inside of those parts you replaced may (and in my experience will) fail, and you will have to go back in again. That is what is at the core of a lot of the advice that you see on this forum. The problem is that not everyone is so diplomatic about handing out this advice, and will just call you an idiot for not replacing everything. I don't know if this is just frustration from giving out the same advice for years, and not realizing that some people are new to all of this, or if they are just a$$holes in general. Probably both.
There is nothing wrong with waiting for something to fail, and only fixing the part that fails. Most of what you read about doing everything at once is just the voice of experience. It is just not delivered well.
Of course, as with anything else, there are the fanatics, or just overly cautious people, who will replace parts simply because they can afford to, and it makes them feel better. That is why you should read as much as you can on a particular subject, and filter out the extremes.
I, for one, do believe that replacing the entire cooling system is reasonable, especially when you experience a failure of one of the items, or after you hit the 80k mile mark. Especially if you have a 1999 - 2002 model, with the poorly designed water pump and expansion tank. But, not replacing items that are part of the regular maintenance schedule, and waiting for them to fail, is just asking for trouble.

+74

Fluids, filters and other wearable items (spark plugs, belts etc) I replace as preventive maintenance. Also parts that are well know to fail - water pump, etc if I'm already working in the general area. Anything else I wait to fail.