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Old 10-18-2011, 12:22 AM   #141
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Disagree with pretty much all of the above.

The use of "deadly force" is not a license to kill. It is legally allowed to be used to stop an active threat, not kill someone or preemptively stop them from becoming a threat. Show me a citation of law from any state in this country that says you can. You use it to stop a threat, not prevent one.

A prosecutor would tear you apart in his sleep and a jury would never side with you.

Just saying.



http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-phar...rticle/3571542

Someone else recently had the same opinion as you... how did that work out?
First shots were self-defense, the last ones were murder
I was talking about fighting, not shooting in the second part of my post. If someone comes at me (I sometimes have to manage late night locations in NYC) which has happened, and I need to defend myself, I will make sure I feel safe, which means, until I see you on the ground in agony, I still take you as a threat....unless you are running away. As for your above post, again, you are arguing the same thing I am, but playing with words. Shooting to kill and using deadly force are nothing more than legal terminology. In practice, they are the same thing. You don't shoot in the legs and arms do you?

P.S. The pharmacist shooting is NOT what I am talking about. The guy EXECUTED the perp. While I personally agree with it, it is still illegal. However, if the guy died from the first shot, no one would bat an eye right?
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Old 10-18-2011, 12:24 AM   #142
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Again, simple vocabulary....what do ALL the self defense courses teach you (firearms)....shoot center mass. Where are all the vital organs? Center mass. By shooting, you are AUTOMATICALLY shooting to kill. Sure, you don't tell the cops, "I tried to drop the fool" but just the fact that you shot someone center mass means you were "shooting to kill.".
Again, disagree. Any instructor worth his time will not portray this image. You shoot and keep engaging until there no longer is a threat. Once there is no longer one, you disengage. You are not shooting to kill, if you were, you would walk over to them and put two in the back of their heads. The reason to shoot COM is for accuracy and effectiveness. Yes, there are vital organs there which is a reason as well since you have a better chance of disabling a person with VO shots, but again, you goal should not be to kill the person.

Sometimes, death is a side effect of stopping a threat, but not always. It's a side effect you can't control. After a shooting, you should be administering medical aid to the person as well if safe to do so.

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P.S. The pharmacist shooting is NOT what I am talking about. The guy EXECUTED the perp. While I personally agree with it, it is still illegal. However, if the guy died from the first shot, no one would bat an eye right?
I'm done here
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 10-18-2011, 12:32 AM   #143
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Again, disagree. Any instructor worth his time will not portray this image. You shoot and keep engaging until there no longer is a threat. Once there is no longer one, you disengage. You are not shooting to kill, if you were, you would walk over to them and put two in the back of their heads. The reason to shoot COM is for accuracy and effectiveness. Yes, there are vital organs there which is a reason as well since you have a better chance of disabling a person with VO shots, but again, you goal should not be to kill the person.

Sometimes, death is a side effect of stopping a threat, but not always. It's a side effect you can't control. After a shooting, you should be administering medical aid to the person as well if safe to do so.

I'm done here
Why, because I think that scum like that kid need to be removed from society? Because he violated the owners personal property, safety and liberty? Because the perp could have come back with 2 more friends and this time, killed the entire staff? Sorry JJ, the pharmacist violated the law, but did not violate MY morals.
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:03 AM   #144
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That was somewhat excessive at the end

He should of stopped
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:27 AM   #145
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That was somewhat excessive at the end

He should of stopped, took a breather, gotten a bigger stick and then continued.
fixed.
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:53 AM   #146
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fixed.


As bad as it may sound, it's things like this why I carry everywhere I go. Had it been a guy with a much worse temper and a knife, I think it would have turned out much differently for the cashier.

Enough of the "What if...?" scenarios, though. The reality: The minute these two women got knocked to the ground by that metal pole, they probably realized, "Jesus Christ... we seriously just fucked up." The cashier didn't know that, though. If he saw them move, he hit them again. That seems like a pretty damn efficient way to incapacitate someone and keep them on the ground (reference to an earlier post).

I'm sure this is the case with most violent criminals or criminals who threaten the life of someone, only to see retaliation and take two or three .45 ACP hollow points to center mass. While they're lying on the ground, breathing their last breaths, I'm sure they're going to regret every making those decisions. It's such a shame they can't have that regret prior to the situation.

As for the one woman's mother, she needs to grasp reality and probably rephrase what she said. "My daughter is a great person around me. I don't know how she acts around her friends, but they like her!"
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:55 AM   #147
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i wanna see the video
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:01 AM   #148
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Here you go: http://************/3rzf8zu

Found another incident where two customers beat a third. I'm sure it's been posted before. Too lazy to search.

http://************/3pdnu57
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:17 AM   #149
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fixed.
Lol
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:48 AM   #150
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As bad as it may sound, it's things like this why I carry everywhere I go. Had it been a guy with a much worse temper and a knife, I think it would have turned out much differently for the cashier.

Enough of the "What if...?" scenarios, though. The reality: The minute these two women got knocked to the ground by that metal pole, they probably realized, "Jesus Christ... we seriously just fucked up." The cashier didn't know that, though. If he saw them move, he hit them again. That seems like a pretty damn efficient way to incapacitate someone and keep them on the ground (reference to an earlier post).

I'm sure this is the case with most violent criminals or criminals who threaten the life of someone, only to see retaliation and take two or three .45 ACP hollow points to center mass. While they're lying on the ground, breathing their last breaths, I'm sure they're going to regret every making those decisions. It's such a shame they can't have that regret prior to the situation.

As for the one woman's mother, she needs to grasp reality and probably rephrase what she said. "My daughter is a great person around me. I don't know how she acts around her friends, but they like her!"
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:19 AM   #151
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These women acted like animals inside of the McDonald's. I never get offended when an employee scans my bills. The women had no business yelling at the cashier then to slap him and jump the counter they were asking for a beating.
I am glad that they were beat and maybe they learned a lesson.

This was self defense until they were on the ground then he should have stopped.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:33 AM   #152
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after watching the video a few times, i can say i would have done the same. 2 hood *****es come charging at me, hit me, and jump the counter. you best believe im gonna fvck their day up.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:36 AM   #153
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Found another incident where two customers beat a third. I'm sure it's been posted before. Too lazy to search.

http://************/3pdnu57
jeeesus
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:57 AM   #154
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Crank the volume up. It sounds like he tells them to stay down. When they don't, they get another whack. I like this guy more and more every time I watch the video.
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Old 10-18-2011, 12:11 PM   #155
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Crank the volume up. It sounds like he tells them to stay down. When they don't, they get another whack. I like this guy more and more every time I watch the video.
If someone assaults me, I put them down, tell them to stay down, and see them try to get back up, I'm going to interpret that as the threat not being eliminated. That's the key when it comes to self defense: Use force to ELIMINATE the threat. I don't know if I'd continue beating the person over the head, especially if they're semi-incapacitated, but I would ensure they could not cause me harm. Truth be told, If I were in that guy's position, I really can't say exactly what I would do.

Why?

I've never had to USE force, but I have had to draw on more than one occasion (a criminal who wanted my wallet, a case of randomly targeted road rage [guy claimed I cut him off when I never even changed lanes ], and an idiot in a shooting range). Was I happy doing it? No. Was my adrenaline pumping? No. Was I thinking clearly? Not by a long shot. The only true thing on my mind in each situation was making sure I survived (in the case of the shooting range incident, I was also keeping the safety of the range officer in mind), regardless of what happened to the potential assailant.
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:22 PM   #156
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Ok here: Citation- You can.


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Old 12-02-2011, 05:02 PM   #157
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So the judge has dropped all charges against the cook! Wooohoooo
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:08 PM   #158
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So the judge has dropped all charges against the cook! Wooohoooo
really? good.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:10 PM   #159
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Yay! Let's celebrate by beating more obnoxious customers.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:20 PM   #160
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now he can sue the mcdonalds franchisee for firing him
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