E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Gun Talk

Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-12-2012, 09:41 PM   #1
OkStateMET
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 157
My Ride: 1999 323i
First AR Build, Advice Needed!

So I have been doing a bit of reading and Im ready to start my AR build. Im going to start with the lower first, then go from there.

I like the Spikes stripped lower and can get one local for $115. Is this a good Deal?

In addition, I have found a lower parts kit with Magpul MOE, stock, grip and Palamtto State Parts for $125.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/598.php

What do you think? about $250ish total

Any better recommendation or good build instructions?
__________________
Some things just don't feel right, and that is one of them. "That's what she said!" :)
OkStateMET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 12:42 AM   #2
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,780
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
For your AR, what is your purpose for it/intended use?
How much are you able to spend on the rifle alone (no optics)?
What is your optics or sight budget?

Spikes is a good place to start for a lower. $115 for an over-the-counter price is fair, and you're getting good quality.
If you can't afford anything better, then go ahead and try the PSA; though I would make sure to do a thorough inspection with their products. They have not been vetted in the tactical shooting arena like other companies like Spikes, Daniel Defense, Rock River Arms, CMT/Stag, etc. If you can afford better, I would spend for better. Don't cut costs for the sake of just cutting costs. Of the areas where you can save money, the lower parts kit (LPK) is not one of those places where you should try to cut corners (the others being bolt carrier group, lower and upper receivers). Companies that have proven track records of good quality control (QC) are the ones you should buy from. PSA is still new, and I would just assume let others be the test guinea pigs to determine the quality and reliability of the parts. I have seen a PSA lower take a massive dump on the range, so my personal opinion of them is not particularly high at this time and won't be until I start to see some more positive evidence of their quality. Personally, I'd put in a Spikes or Daniel Defense LPK. I'd much rather have an A2 pistol grip with a quality LPK, than a Magpul or other aftermarket grip at the expense of having to install a LPK from an unproven company. While there are deals to be had out there, most AR parts and accessories have a quality commensurate with their cost. You get what you pay for, and the phrase "buy once, cry once" really holds true.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 10:48 AM   #3
OkStateMET
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 157
My Ride: 1999 323i
^Thanks for the Input

I Would like to find the time to try 3 Gun competition, but mostly it will be a range rifle. I don't plan on cutting corners looking to spend around 800 for the whole build, not including optics. Could you recommend a place to buy a better LPK and I could source the MOE stock and grip from their.

For the upper (haven't decided on a brand yet):
5.56 NATO
1/7 twist
Chrome lined barrel and particle inspected
Quad Rail w/ AFG
Flip front and rear MBUS
Other optics will come later.

Is there any accuracy sacrificed with flip sights?
__________________
Some things just don't feel right, and that is one of them. "That's what she said!" :)
OkStateMET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 11:36 AM   #4
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,780
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Are you looking for an assembled upper, or do you want to assemble it yourself (and have the tools)?
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 12:52 PM   #5
OkStateMET
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 157
My Ride: 1999 323i
^ I not been able to find a complete upper I like so I will probably build and buy the tools too.
__________________
Some things just don't feel right, and that is one of them. "That's what she said!" :)
OkStateMET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 01:00 PM   #6
SamDoe1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 3,503
My Ride: Clubs baby seals
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkStateMET View Post
For the upper (haven't decided on a brand yet):
5.56 NATO
1/7 twist
Chrome lined barrel and particle inspected
Quad Rail w/ AFG
Flip front and rear MBUS
Other optics will come later.
I'm in the same boat as you, planning on building my first one soon. I have NOT been able to put together a quality build out for ~$800 or less that includes a quad rail or a free float rail of any kind. Those parts alone run ~$250ish depending on the length you want. My solution is to get a Magpul MOE hand guard and add in the rail sections to that. I figure that it would still look good, hold all the accessories I want, be lighter, and easier to hold on to.

I'm not an expert by any means, I'm far from it, but that's just my 2 cents. FWIW, I'm going to go with a Spikes Tactical assembled upper 16in barrel in 5.56. All you have to do is add a charging handle and it's done.
SamDoe1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 01:00 PM   #7
OkStateMET
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 157
My Ride: 1999 323i
Reedo32, can you recommend any quality complete uppers with what im looking for?
__________________
Some things just don't feel right, and that is one of them. "That's what she said!" :)
OkStateMET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 01:05 PM   #8
speedcrazy1532
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 721
My Ride: is over
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkStateMET View Post
Reedo32, can you recommend any quality complete uppers with what im looking for?
Much of the stuff you're listing like the front grip and back-up sights are stuff that is usually added and not included in purchasing a fully assembled upper.

Can I ask why you want the 1:7 twist?
__________________

-Phil
speedcrazy1532 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 01:43 PM   #9
Serbonze
Master of his domain.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In my house
Posts: 2,055
My Ride: My wife
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkStateMET View Post
^Thanks for the Input

I Would like to find the time to try 3 Gun competition, but mostly it will be a range rifle. I don't plan on cutting corners looking to spend around 800 for the whole build, not including optics. Could you recommend a place to buy a better LPK and I could source the MOE stock and grip from their.

For the upper (haven't decided on a brand yet):
5.56 NATO
1/7 twist
Chrome lined barrel and particle inspected
Quad Rail w/ AFG
Flip front and rear MBUS
Other optics will come later.

Is there any accuracy sacrificed with flip sights?
Have you used the MOE grip or an AFG? Have you used an AR without them? If not, it sounds like you are adding accessories without being familiar with the rifle first.

As far as optics, do you plan on a red dot or a scope?
__________________
Serbonze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 01:46 PM   #10
Serbonze
Master of his domain.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In my house
Posts: 2,055
My Ride: My wife
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
All you have to do is add a charging handle and it's done.
I'm pretty sure that every Spikes upper comes with the charging handle.
__________________
Serbonze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 01:53 PM   #11
Serbonze
Master of his domain.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In my house
Posts: 2,055
My Ride: My wife
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkStateMET View Post
Reedo32, can you recommend any quality complete uppers with what im looking for?
I'm not Reed, but I would say anything from Daniel Defense, BCM, Spikes, are good to go. I would throw Smith and Wesson in there too if you are not married to the 1/7 twist. You will have to check each offering though, as not all will come with the BCG and charging handle. You may also want to check out Palmetto State Armory complete uppers, as they seem to use quality parts. They are still very new though.

If you want to build it yourself, $800 should be okay if you don't count the back up sights. If you want a complete upper, that will be pushing your budget.
__________________
Serbonze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 01:53 PM   #12
OkStateMET
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 157
My Ride: 1999 323i
^ I have used the MOE grip, but not the AFG. I have long arms so I like the idea of having something to hold onto. Im just going to go with Iron sights and learn the basics of the rifle and then upgrade to a red dot.

I recently read a good article about 1:7 twist for 5.56
http://forums.officer.com/showthread...y-an-AR-15-huh
__________________
Some things just don't feel right, and that is one of them. "That's what she said!" :)
OkStateMET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 02:06 PM   #13
Wraisil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 216
My Ride: 2010 Infiniti G37
1/7 twist is only better for ammo that costs more to shoot than 55gr. For range use, you'll be shooting 55gr fmj 99% of the time, so why spend the extra money on the upper and extra money on the ammo? If you're not building a combat rifle, there is no advantage of going to 1/7 twist. If you are building a precision target rifle, then stick with a .223 upper to maximize precision. Just my 2c's.
Wraisil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 02:16 PM   #14
SamDoe1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 3,503
My Ride: Clubs baby seals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbonze View Post
I'm pretty sure that every Spikes upper comes with the charging handle.
Really? The list of what it includes doesn't say charging handle...I'll have to call and make sure before I order.

Have you tried out a PSA upper yet? Anything good or bad to say about it? I know Reedo won't endorse it because they are so new, just checking around to see what your experiences are.
SamDoe1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 02:25 PM   #15
Serbonze
Master of his domain.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In my house
Posts: 2,055
My Ride: My wife
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
Really? The list of what it includes doesn't say charging handle...I'll have to call and make sure before I order.

Have you tried out a PSA upper yet? Anything good or bad to say about it? I know Reedo won't endorse it because they are so new, just checking around to see what your experiences are.
I think it's a given, but I certainly could be wrong.

I have no first hand experience with PSA. I'm just repeating information that I have read and passing it along as another possibility. I think Reed was referring to the lower though.
__________________

Last edited by Serbonze; 01-13-2012 at 02:27 PM.
Serbonze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 02:33 PM   #16
SamDoe1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 3,503
My Ride: Clubs baby seals
Double Post.
SamDoe1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 02:33 PM   #17
SamDoe1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 3,503
My Ride: Clubs baby seals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbonze View Post
I have no first hand experience with PSA. I'm just repeating information that I have read and passing it along as another possibility. I think Reed was referring to the lower though.
I discussed the upper with him in a PM conversation. But thank you for your input!
SamDoe1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 04:05 PM   #18
Serbonze
Master of his domain.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In my house
Posts: 2,055
My Ride: My wife
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
I discussed the upper with him in a PM conversation. But thank you for your input!
__________________
Serbonze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 04:23 PM   #19
OkStateMET
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 157
My Ride: 1999 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraisil View Post
1/7 twist is only better for ammo that costs more to shoot than 55gr. For range use, you'll be shooting 55gr fmj 99% of the time, so why spend the extra money on the upper and extra money on the ammo? If you're not building a combat rifle, there is no advantage of going to 1/7 twist. If you are building a precision target rifle, then stick with a .223 upper to maximize precision. Just my 2c's.
Thanks for the input, could you recommend a site to buy from?
__________________
Some things just don't feel right, and that is one of them. "That's what she said!" :)
OkStateMET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 05:05 PM   #20
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,780
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Here are a couple of thoughts and options.

First, the 3-Gun use. For initially breaking into 3-Gun, any AR is pretty much fine. If you want to get competitive, a standard AR won't cut the mustard. There are general ARs, combat ARs and competition ARs. The question is what you want. General ARs do everything OK, but nothing great. Combat ARs are profoundly reliable, durable, tough, able to shoot a wide variety of ammo, and tend to be lighter or more compact. Competition ARs tend to be a lot heavier and are designed for accuracy and speed, and sacrifice durability and reliability. If you want to get more involved in 3-Gun, you will eventually need to do some significant upgrades to your rifle to stay competitive and to stave off peer pressure from the 3-gun zealots.

If you do want to do 3-Gun, a 1:7 twist barrel is a better barrel option, as it gives you the ability to stabilize heavier match bullets in the 69-77gr weight. Barrel twist is actually relative to bullet velocity, not bullet weight. The lower the velocity, the tighter the needed twist. Such is why you cannot have an SBR (under 16" barrel) with a 1:9 or 1:12 twist barrel and expect any reasonable performance. The difference in barrel twist will relate to what bullets your barrel will stabilize better. While a 1:9 twist barrel will stabilize 55gr better, it will not stabilize anything heavier than 62gr very effectively. For the barrels in your price range, you will never be able to see any marked difference in the accuracy of 55gr-62gr ammunition when you compare 1:9 twist to 1:7 twist. If you were running a high-end match barrel, it'd be a different story. For a carbine barrel, the difference is negligible and favors the greater utility and flexibility of the 1:7 twist.

If you want to start with a less expensive setup, look into building a setup with Del-Ton. I would suggest a midlength upper with a 16" barrel. Use this link to put together a rifle kit of your choice, with MOE accessories and a YHM rail, etc. It has everything you want, and will come out around the price you want to spend. The setup I built that matches your design came in at $677. It includes everything but the lower receiver. Make sure to select the chrome-lined barrel, either in 1:9 or 1:7. Both are the same price, but again, 1:7 is more versatile. Del-Ton is a lower tier company that still sells decent parts.
http://www.del-ton.com/Rifle_Kit_p/rkt104.htm

If you want something more specific in your build, let me know.

Don't get too specific or custom on your initial rifle setup. The issue that comes in is that you will need to outfit your rifle to fit your intended primary use. When people get a rifle and configure it right away without much experience, they will most certainly change it. There is a line between a "working setup" and just being "tacticool". When you look at people who have had ARs for a while and have multiple ARs, you'll notice that all of their rifles are configured the same way. Many members here exemplify that. When i go to training courses, you can tell who the newer shooters are, because they're the ones that come in after lunch on Day 1 with a different rifle configuration than when they started in the morning. It takes time to figure out what you want, what you like, and what you don't want/don't like. Don't spend too much money on accessories until you have some time behind the rifle. An AFG is not a very expensive accessory, but be aware that something like half of all users wind up ditching it for a vertical foregrip (VFG) or for a simple handstop. Go ahead and try the AFG if you want, but don't be married to it if you don't like it. Be flexible with your configuration until you determine what you like.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel

Last edited by Reedo302; 01-13-2012 at 05:18 PM.
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is OFF





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use