Group Buy: ATI Damper for M54

Originally Posted by flashtwosix

i agree with everything you said especially about ATI R&D capabilities and Vorshlag timeline. I am just a little shock about the $750-800 price tag. wondering how much ATI is charging for an non BMW damper.

It just depends if they have it in-stock or not. Reason M54 damper is so expensive is that it is custom made per order. It is not stocked on shelf like other Makes and Model they have. 500-600

Originally Posted by Rob43

It is possible the Vorshlag Damper is as good as the ATI, but probably not. I can make this statement based on the fact that ATI's sole purpose in life is building the very best Dampers, period. ATI has every possible piece of "State Of The Art" testing equipment at their disposal. The chances of Vorshlag investing millions, if not tens of millions of dollars in this type of testing equipment for a Damper or Dampers they're only going to sell a few of is not likely. So their copy may be good, but probably not on the same level of the ATI Damper.

I would also say that anyone placing a single order with ATI at about $800 would get their Damper in 60 to 90 days. On the other hand, Vorshlag isn't even out of the prototype stage; who's to say their first or even second prototype works properly ? Which means the chance of taking delivery on a Vorshlag finished Damper any sooner than 8 or 9 months from now is not likely. So you could spend $800 now, and be protected for the 2012 track day / occasional autocross season. Or wait to spend $550 to $600 (guessing) on the Vorshlag Damper that won't probably be delivered any sooner than September, meanwhile you just suffered a catastrophic engine failure at the last track day you participated in. The choice is yours.


Good luck.

I'm not trying to start anything but it seems you are being a little optimistic with how ATI would treat us and pessimistic on the Vorshlag piece- which is more understandable.

It seems from some posts on this page of the guys from the last GB have a soured impression of ATIs service and helpfulness with the E46 community. It seems like they took forever to make the dampers and didn't really give you much of a discount- basically made you work for the product. Someone called them and they said 90-120 days. I don't think I'll have a catastrophic engine failure before then, being cautious not to hold to high rpms, with the loctite prepped nut on my zhp and only 6800rpm redline.

I want to wait until the new damper is out and weigh my options.

zhp43867, I hear you.

Optimistic, maybe maybe not. I'm not a fan of how ATI treated us on the GB, they certainly should have done better. But I know of two forum members who ordered their dampers separately, as in not the group buy. They both received their dampers in a timely fashion. One thing a lot of people don't take into consideration with a performance company like ATI, is whether or not it's racing season. At this moment they're slower based on the time of year, but come spring/summer the demand for their products go way up. When ATI started making the 10 dampers, one for me & the other 9, it was the peak of the busy season.

Vorshlag: I don't know much about them, but I do know they don't manufacture dampers for a living. So pessimistic, maybe. I wouldn't want to risk my semi high dollar motor on a product who's sole purpose is to keep my motor from vibrating it self to death. If they didn't get it right, the only way I'd find out is through catastrophic engine failure. So for me it's ATI, even though we all waited to long to get it.

Last: I'm sure if you're trying to be cautious about high RPM usage, you'll be fine. I myself was not cautious, and blew up my last M54B30 motor; thus one big reason I upgraded to the ATI damper & a special oil pump.

Good luck in your decision.
Rob43

If i Order this damper from ATI can I purchase/rent the "custom tool" to install this piece?

Anthony@Bimmerbrakes will rent you the tool.

Originally Posted by aggieE46

Anthony@Bimmerbrakes will rent you the tool.

x2

-Anthony@BimmerBrakes

Originally Posted by BimmerBrakes

x2

-Anthony@BimmerBrakes

anthony..you got PM!

The tool will be "Free to Rent". Yes, you heard correctly. All, I ask is you to take care of my personal tools as your own.

Cover shipping Their and Back and a Deposit of $180.

At the moment the Tool is Shipped to James.

Originally Posted by flashtwosix

anthony..you got PM!

Responded

-Anthony@BimmerBrakes

Anthony rocks!

Originally Posted by BimmerBrakes

The tool will be "Free to Rent". Yes, you heard correctly. All, I ask is you to take care of my personal tools as your own.

Cover shipping Their and Back and a Deposit of $180.

Yeah, don't be an idiot and strip the thread adaptor...

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Yeah, don't be an idiot and strip the thread adaptor...

hehe

I will be modifying the Adapter alittle shorter.

I wish I had come across this thread last year...I would have been in for the GB.

I am in for a 2nd GB...but can't wait a year...I can only wait 3-6 mo.

Originally Posted by escabar

I wish I had come across this thread last year...I would have been in for the GB.

I am in for a 2nd GB...but can't wait a year...I can only wait 3-6 mo.

me too. I don't want to shell out 750-800 but if there is a future group buy than I am all for it (willing to pay in full in advance also)

Originally Posted by flashtwosix

me too. I don't want to shell out 750-800 but if there is a future group buy than I am all for it (willing to pay in full in advance also)

If yall can set it up sure Anthony wont mind...

Originally Posted by BimmerBrakes

hehe

I will be modifying the Adapter alittle shorter.

I'm taking my radiator out this time...because I would really hate to admit on this forum I stripped twice...I meant stripped the tool twice...that didn't sound good.

Originally Posted by Rob43

It is possible the Vorshlag Damper is as good as the ATI, but probably not. I can make this statement based on the fact that ATI's sole purpose in life is building the very best Dampers, period. ATI has every possible piece of "State Of The Art" testing equipment at their disposal. The chances of Vorshlag investing millions, if not tens of millions of dollars in this type of testing equipment for a Damper or Dampers they're only going to sell a few of is not likely. So their copy may be good, but probably not on the same level of the ATI Damper.

I would also say that anyone placing a single order with ATI at about $800 would get their Damper in 60 to 90 days. On the other hand, Vorshlag isn't even out of the prototype stage; who's to say their first or even second prototype works properly ? Which means the chance of taking delivery on a Vorshlag finished Damper any sooner than 8 or 9 months from now is not likely. So you could spend $800 now, and be protected for the 2012 track day / occasional autocross season. Or wait to spend $550 to $600 (guessing) on the Vorshlag Damper that won't probably be delivered any sooner than September, meanwhile you just suffered a catastrophic engine failure at the last track day you participated in. The choice is yours.


Good luck.

Well, I'm the Jason at Vorshlag that some of the guys spoke to.

We aren't developing this in-house. We know suspensions. We don't have the knowledge to built a SFI approved engine damper without some help. We are working with a company who makes a LOT of SFI dampers and some OEM dampers to get this to market. Our target price is less than $500 and so far it looks like we are well below that. Our schedule is to have a beta version on the road by the end of March. If that works out we will be offering them through the shop. Since our supplier had made a huge number of other SFI dampers we expect the damping part and the pulley profile to be spot-on. Our concerns are the snout fitment.

Originally Posted by JRMcDaniel

Well, I'm the Jason at Vorshlag that some of the guys spoke to.

We aren't developing this in-house. We know suspensions. We don't have the knowledge to built a SFI approved engine damper without some help. We are working with a company who makes a LOT of SFI dampers and some OEM dampers to get this to market. Our target price is less than $500 and so far it looks like we are well below that. Our schedule is to have a beta version on the road by the end of March. If that works out we will be offering them through the shop. Since our supplier had made a huge number of other SFI dampers we expect the damping part and the pulley profile to be spot-on. Our concerns are the snout fitment.

Glad to hear Vorshlag got this on a roll...

-Anthony@BimmerBrakes

Originally Posted by JRMcDaniel

Well, I'm the Jason at Vorshlag that some of the guys spoke to.

We aren't developing this in-house. We know suspensions. We don't have the knowledge to built a SFI approved engine damper without some help. We are working with a company who makes a LOT of SFI dampers and some OEM dampers to get this to market. Our target price is less than $500 and so far it looks like we are well below that. Our schedule is to have a beta version on the road by the end of March. If that works out we will be offering them through the shop. Since our supplier had made a huge number of other SFI dampers we expect the damping part and the pulley profile to be spot-on. Our concerns are the snout fitment.

If you need a local car for testing, I might be interested.

Originally Posted by JRMcDaniel

Well, I'm the Jason at Vorshlag that some of the guys spoke to.

We aren't developing this in-house. We know suspensions. We don't have the knowledge to built a SFI approved engine damper without some help. We are working with a company who makes a LOT of SFI dampers and some OEM dampers to get this to market. Our target price is less than $500 and so far it looks like we are well below that. Our schedule is to have a beta version on the road by the end of March. If that works out we will be offering them through the shop. Since our supplier had made a huge number of other SFI dampers we expect the damping part and the pulley profile to be spot-on. Our concerns are the snout fitment.

That sounds good, and I wish you great success with your damper.

I am glad to know that this is not something you were trying to do in house.

What type of testing equipment do you plan on using to make sure you have "tuned out" the bad harmonics that plague the M54B30 block & crank ? I'm really hoping Vorshlag's plans aren't to just install it on a test car & beat on that car. Thinking of course, that if your test car doesn't suffer OP/OPN failure you're good to go.

On a side note, since Vorshlag is trying to bring this type of product to market, go the extra mile for the other half of the problem. You guys should develop a cheaper version of the "Super Oil Pump" that costs us $750 right now. Here's the link to detailed photos of the SOP, develop it & bring it to market for $399; you'll sell a lot of them.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...56&postcount=1


Good luck, and welcome to E46Fanatics !
Rob

Originally Posted by Rob43

What type of testing equipment do you plan on using to make sure you have "tuned out" the bad harmonics that plague the M54B30 block & crank ? I'm really hoping Vorshlag's plans aren't to just install it on a test car & beat on that car. Thinking of course, that if your test car doesn't suffer OP/OPN failure you're good to go.

You really think ATI did the level of testing you are suggesting? Given the amount and type of data they gathered from customers (even prior to the group buy), I didn't get the impression they ever laid hands on an M54. I believe they just used their standard design with properly sized pulleys, selected elastomer rings by rule of thumb for an I6 with an assumed max engine speed and power rating, and ensured a properly toleranced fit for the M54 crank snout. Maybe they put a lot more R&D into their M54 offering but it would truly surprise me if they did.