E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke

Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
Sponsored by Active Autowerke

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-14-2012, 07:32 AM   #61
02black330ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ^^ E46FANATICS ^^
Posts: 1,814
My Ride: spaceship
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersickbimmer View Post
My car sounds just like the one in the video. My car only has 35k on it. Does sound like a diesel for the first minute or so. Should I be worried?
It got me worried, specially since more than one of us have the sound. We need someone from MaximumPSI to chime in and tell us what they found the issue to be with the car in the video and the resolution. We need Raj to join the forums and provide some expertise, Kenton work your magic!
__________________







Last edited by 02black330ci; 01-14-2012 at 07:34 AM.
02black330ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 08:49 AM   #62
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,861
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Raj is already on the forums...his thread here on e46f in general has like over 2000 posts or something lol.

Honestly don't be worried about the sound...just be worried about what can happen to your exhaust hub. If the sound is obviously retarded noisy then get it looked at for peace of mind...in that video the vanos sounds normal...if not quieter than some...you may be hearing the exhaust more than the rattle.

See his threads:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...336&highlight=

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...533&highlight=

EDIT: Keep in mind some of the issues that non-m cars have are slightly different than the S54 but you can peruse at your leisure!
__________________

Last edited by Commanderwiggin; 01-14-2012 at 08:56 AM.
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 09:25 AM   #63
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,861
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
See this old quote below from 2010...believe he has the sealing plate for the S54 now and the new shim kit is probably near release...waiting for him to get back to me or this thread...I PM'd him a link to this. Also I guess the rattle is more so caused by the intake side bolts coming loose...get those tightened. IIRC there is a newer bolt design but I'm sick of searching crap right now lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
Congrats on the M3.
The S54 vanos internal piston seals are made of the correct materials and aren't failing.

Here is some info on three E46 M3 vanos related problems.

The vanos can fail and cause the DME to generate fault codes. The codes are usually for the intake side. They include:
Fault 0x43 (67) DME: Inlet vanos, advance valve
Fault 0x48 (72) DME: Inlet vanos, retard valve
Fault 0xB8 (184) DME: Function, inlet vanos
There are two common failures that can cause the vanos codes. The vanos solenoid pack can fail and the exhaust sprocket vanos oil pump driver teeth can break.
Vanos solenoid pack is #2 in this parts diagram.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...93&hg=11&fg=15
Exhaust sprocket vanos oil pump driver teeth are part of #2 in this parts diagram. The driver teeth can be seen on the exhaust sprocket outer component.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...04&hg=11&fg=25

Here is a method to distinguish between the two failures. Reset the codes and start the engine. Let the car idle for 3 minutes. If the codes reappear while the car is idling the problem is likely the exhaust sprocket driver teeth are broken. If the car has to be driven for a period before the problem recurs and the fault codes reappear then the problem is the vanos solenoid pack.
The solenoid pack failure is in most cases intermittent and the car has to be driven for some period, sometimes hundreds of miles, before the problem reappears. But there are some cases where the failure is permanent and the codes appear immediately after starting the car.
In the case where the problem and codes reappear just after starting the car the valve cover needs to be removed to acquire and definitive diagnosis. If the exhaust sprocket driver teeth are broken then that is the fault. If the teeth are still present then the solenoid pack is the fault.

Although the BMW ETK (parts catalog) shows the vanos solenoid pack is discontinued, it is available under a new part number, 11-36-7-839-180, $600-$700.
Replacing the vanos solenoid pack is simple. 2 short and 3 long bolts at the top of the vanos mount the solenoid pack onto the vanos. For access, the fan shroud exhaust side air scoop needs to be removed (2 rivets). There is a sealing plate with O-rings that seals the solenoid pack and vanos connection. The OEM O-rings on the sealing plate are made from Buna and thus fail. Therefore the sealing plate needs to be replaced when replacing the solenoid pack. The sealing plate is #7 on the vanos parts diagram referenced above. The mounting bolts should be tightened evenly to 5 Nm.
If you replace your vanos solenoid pack please send your old unit to Beisan Systems. We are investigating rebuilding the solenoid pack and providing it as a more economic solution.

If the exhaust sprocket teeth are broken then the sprocket component with the driving teeth needs to be replaced. Unfortunately this component is not available separately from BMW and needs to be purchase as a set with the rest of the exhaust sprocket components, #2 on the sprockets parts diagram referenced above.
The timing is disturbed in the installation process and special tools are needed to reset the timing.


A rattle occurs that emanates from the valve cover front. The rattle is due to loose sprocket bolts. This usually occurs on the intake sprocket but can apparently also occur on the exhaust sprocket. The sprocket bolts that come loose are #5 on this parts diagram.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...04&hg=11&fg=25
The #5 bolts are mounted underneath the outer sprocket component, so they can't be seen when the valve cover is remove. The outer sprocket will be found to have some movement.
The bolt threads will be damaged and need to be replaced.
The timing is disturbed in the repair process and special tools are needed to reset the timing.

Here is a forum post thread with pictures of the loose and damaged bolts.
http://pistonheads.co.uk/xforums/top...10474&hm=83097
__________________
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 09:36 AM   #64
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,861
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Also this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
The E46 M3 has a different vanos than the standard E46's.
On the E46 M3 the main vanos failure is the solenoid pack. It's #2 on this parts diagram.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...93&hg=11&fg=15
There is a new parts number for it, 11-36-7-839-180, $600-$700.
You also need to replace the sealing plate, #7. It has Buna O-rings and they're failing.
You replace the solenoid pack by simply removing the 5 bolts on top of the vanos, 3 long, 2 short.
Here are the common codes you would receive.
Fault 0x43 (67) DME: Inlet vanos, advance valve
Fault 0x48 (72) DME: Inlet vanos, retard valve
Fault 0xB8 (184) DME: Function, inlet vanos

A more rare problem with this vanos is the exhaust camshaft sprocket oil pump driver teeth can break. This is part of #2 on this parts diagram.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...04&hg=11&fg=25
When this happens the vanos will stop working because it loses oil pressure.
You can take off the valve cover and see the teeth are broken.

This vanos can also encounter a rattle. Sprocket mounting bolts are coming loose, usually on the intake sprocket. They are #5 on the above parts diagram.

Hope this helps.
__________________
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 01:53 PM   #65
Rockyminator
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 478
My Ride: HPF Stage 2.5 M3
If your cars are sounding like that at initial startup then I don't think you guys should be so worried about it (especially HPF guys as I was told that it's normal on first startup). The reason I'm getting my Vanos replaced is because it's doing it constantly and can get really bad at times. The sound makes me cringe! Yeah... I can hear it while driving... even over my AP exhaust! I'll most likely do the hub shim once it's released as an extra precaution.
__________________
HPF Stage 2.5 BMW M3
Rockyminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 01:58 PM   #66
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,861
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockyminator View Post
If your cars are sounding like that at initial startup then I don't think you guys should be so worried about it (especially HPF guys as I was told that it's normal on first startup). The reason I'm getting my Vanos replaced is because it's doing it constantly and can get really bad at times. The sound makes me cringe! Yeah... I can hear it while driving... even over my AP exhaust! I'll most likely do the hub shim once it's released as an extra precaution.
Prolly loose bolts
__________________
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 02:12 PM   #67
Rockyminator
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 478
My Ride: HPF Stage 2.5 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
Prolly loose bolts
When HPF inspected it, they said there was more play in the exhaust hub than normal, which is why I'm changing it out. As far as loose bolts, I ordered the upgraded bolts. The hub shim would probably be a good thing to have to prevent the play from recurring as well. Keep us posted on the release and results
__________________
HPF Stage 2.5 BMW M3
Rockyminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 02:15 PM   #68
02black330ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ^^ E46FANATICS ^^
Posts: 1,814
My Ride: spaceship
Thanks Kenton and Rocky for the replies. I'll make sure to read through the provided info for better understanding. Rocky keep us posted after HPF finishes the work on your VANOS.
__________________






02black330ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 02:21 PM   #69
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,861
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockyminator View Post
When HPF inspected it, they said there was more play in the exhaust hub than normal, which is why I'm changing it out. As far as loose bolts, I ordered the upgraded bolts. The hub shim would probably be a good thing to have to prevent the play from recurring as well. Keep us posted on the release and results
Call Raj on Monday and see if that product is ready for release...should be.
__________________
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 02:33 PM   #70
Rockyminator
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 478
My Ride: HPF Stage 2.5 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02black330ci View Post
Thanks Kenton and Rocky for the replies. I'll make sure to read through the provided info for better understanding. Rocky keep us posted after HPF finishes the work on your VANOS.
Will do. Should be done by next monday. Just waiting on the shipping right now
__________________
HPF Stage 2.5 BMW M3
Rockyminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 03:41 PM   #71
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,861
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockyminator View Post
Will do. Should be done by next monday. Just waiting on the shipping right now
Yes let us know how it goes and what John thinks about everything!
__________________
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 06:41 PM   #72
Bdave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 1,827
My Ride: M3 HPF Stage 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
I hope you read a bit more into things before you (wasted ->IMO) all that coin...I know Mspired has had no issues with his Dr.Vanos upgrade but you seriously needed to call Raj at Beisan systems. Alot of history between the two companies and in a nut shell here is my take on it.

Dr.Vanos buys brand new OEM solenoid packs ( The same ones that fail in the first place)
Also the Cryo treatment on the exhaust hub could infact have negative effects on the exhaust tabs as it increases the brittleness of the metal...most failures are > 60k Miles so you won't know until you get more miles on it.

Dr.Vanos wants to make money...and he's doing that and isn't researching the primary reason or fix for the exhaust tabs like Raj is. Regardless you will want the updated crap from Raj when it comes out...and he doesn't care about the money...he's extremely passionate about BMW's engineering failure in regards to the vanos issues.

Seriously you owe it to yourself to call him regardless...I have spent a considerable amount of time looking into this and this is just my opinion...there is absolutely no reason...none...to blindly spend on something that is cheaper and imo better.


Edit: Don't take my word for it either...dig into all the threads on this on this forum, bfc and m3forum...there are tens of thousands of posts on this crap. Save the money for better upgrades.

And the video sounds fine...exhaust has an offbeat rasp to it that might throw you off but thats not the vanos...the tiny rattle is the only thing...way worse noises in other vids on youtube...don't look for hpf vanos in a search...try S54 Vanos, BMW Vanos Rattle...its universal for most e46's and many other bmw's...the rattle isn't the issue so much as the extra play in the exhaust tabs...obviously vanos service on the bearings/seals should be done every 80k imo and inspection or rebuild of the solenoid packs at your comfort but the exhaust tabs are what actually break...it is a ticking time bomb.
I am going to second this. I think Dr Vanos is really overpriced and there are better options such as Besian or EVEN the link that Evil Rob gave for the hub!
I am a Besian fan. I have spoke with Raj on the phone too. I think those guys are out to make a couple bucks too but not rape us. They really do have a passion to help the VANOS user keep his system reliable at a minimum cost. CW, keep us apprised.
__________________

Last edited by Bdave; 01-14-2012 at 06:43 PM.
Bdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 10:32 PM   #73
bwonders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Posts: 12
My Ride: 2003 M3Vert HPF stg2
Thanks for all the responses to my original question about the ticking noise. I'll upload a vid of what mine sounds like soon. Mine's is a little different because the ticking/knocking comes and goes while its cold its not constant like the video. Also just an FYI my stock VANOS failed and was replaced (luckly my extended warranty covered the repairs). The new OEM VANOS unit came straight from BMW and was replaced just a few months before going HPF. The VANOS has less then 10000 miles on it so I don't think my sound would be from the exauhst tabs. Also one thing that I noticed is that if you rev the engine to around 3000 RPM you will hear the VANOS making alot more noise. After talking it over with my shop we started listening to other M3's that came into the shop and all of them seem to make the same sounds at 3000 RPM with no load on the engine. So since my VANOS is basically brand new what else do you guys think might be causing a similar sound?
bwonders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 11:01 PM   #74
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,861
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwonders View Post
Thanks for all the responses to my original question about the ticking noise. I'll upload a vid of what mine sounds like soon. Mine's is a little different because the ticking/knocking comes and goes while its cold its not constant like the video. Also just an FYI my stock VANOS failed and was replaced (luckly my extended warranty covered the repairs). The new OEM VANOS unit came straight from BMW and was replaced just a few months before going HPF. The VANOS has less then 10000 miles on it so I don't think my sound would be from the exauhst tabs. Also one thing that I noticed is that if you rev the engine to around 3000 RPM you will hear the VANOS making alot more noise. After talking it over with my shop we started listening to other M3's that came into the shop and all of them seem to make the same sounds at 3000 RPM with no load on the engine. So since my VANOS is basically brand new what else do you guys think might be causing a similar sound?
Prolly normal...or loose bolts. My bet is you're fine if its that new.
__________________
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 01:51 AM   #75
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,861
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Update...no go on the sleeves/shims:

"After testing the sleeves solution I've decided against it. The sleeve is being indented into the old hole indents. If the hole indents are large, and some are, the sleeve will crack.
We are now investigating making the complete disk. But this is a bit complicated because of a bushing at the disk ID."
__________________
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 09:22 AM   #76
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,861
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Pic of the wear on the bolts:



Hope this link is allowed...best DIY for the vanos I've seen yet:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=321494
__________________
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 10:58 AM   #77
02black330ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ^^ E46FANATICS ^^
Posts: 1,814
My Ride: spaceship
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
Update...no go on the sleeves/shims:

"After testing the sleeves solution I've decided against it. The sleeve is being indented into the old hole indents. If the hole indents are large, and some are, the sleeve will crack.
We are now investigating making the complete disk. But this is a bit complicated because of a bushing at the disk ID."
Thanks for the update. Good to know he will still continue to pursue other means to fix this issue.
__________________






02black330ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 02:23 PM   #78
Rockyminator
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 478
My Ride: HPF Stage 2.5 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
Pic of the wear on the bolts:



Hope this link is allowed...best DIY for the vanos I've seen yet:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=321494
Damn the new updated bolts can wear like that too?
__________________
HPF Stage 2.5 BMW M3
Rockyminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 02:29 PM   #79
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,861
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockyminator View Post
Damn the new updated bolts can wear like that too?
No...unless someone screws up the install...new ones come with locktite on the bolts...also new bolts are torx style. And its only the intake side that has problems.
__________________
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 02:43 PM   #80
Rockyminator
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 478
My Ride: HPF Stage 2.5 M3
Ok cool thanks. Hopefully my full replacement will solve all these problems.
__________________
HPF Stage 2.5 BMW M3
Rockyminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use