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Old 09-06-2011, 10:40 AM   #81
celluloidheros
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Hello, just to wrap the thread up, I bought a new 10 Channel amplifier, this is located in the drivers side trunk, It is very easy to replace, Fuse 41 acts normally now and the resting current draw is below 40 mamps. fuse 41 drives many things and is meant to be hot (the lower feed side of the fuse is not switched with the ignition) at all times and Fuse 41 (or the devices attached to it) uses a small amount of current in sleep mode. when fuse 41 is removed, their is a capacitor in the amplifier and possibly the radio, i'd be interested to here what other e46er's get for voltage/time readings, so we can say what is normal. Fuse 41 can drive about 8 to 10 different devices so these readings may vary based on configuration. I really only have a CD53 and amplifier. i don't have NAV, On board monitor, sub woofer box, Video, GPS etc...

Anyway, in sleep mode, when I pull fuse 41, the bottom fuse 41 receptacle is always hot and has 12.5 volts (same as the battery voltage at the terminals in the trunk). the top has 10.5 volts after pulling the fuse and slowly drains down to less than 1 volt over time. Fuse 41 will spark when you plug it in, so mimnimize then number of times you unplug/plug the fuse, disconnect battery when possible.
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Old 09-06-2011, 02:30 PM   #82
Master Po
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Originally Posted by celluloidheros View Post
Anyway, in sleep mode, when I pull fuse 41, the bottom fuse 41 receptacle is always hot and has 12.5 volts (same as the battery voltage at the terminals in the trunk). the top has 10.5 volts after pulling the fuse and slowly drains down to less than 1 volt over time. Fuse 41 will spark when you plug it in, so mimnimize then number of times you unplug/plug the fuse, disconnect battery when possible.
that's exactly what a capacitor is supposed to do: it stores energy while the voltage is available, and put that energy back in the circuit when the voltage drops (as in you removing the fuse). In essence, it's working like a very small battery. The bigger the capacitor, the longer it will be able to hold the voltage. That is why you see those huge canisters (the size of two beer cans stacked on top of each other) used by high powered audio installers. When a particular low frequency note demands more power than the battery can supply, the capacitors pitch in with their stored energy and the voltage holds constant instead of dropping and distorting all other frequencies.
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:25 PM   #83
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Hi Master Po, I have a 2 farad cap. hooks to my JL audio amp and sub in my Honda. I understand how a capacitior is suppoosed to work, but for some reason my amp was not acting like it should. with the new amp installed, i no longer jhave the parasitic draw from fuse 41. the voltage measured on top quickly goes down to less than 1 volt, once the power is removed where as the old amp would stay up near 12 v for much longer. im not sure what's wrong with the ampobut if anyone wants to take a look, at it, be my guest. The good thing is that i fixed the issue for minimal cost without going to the dealer and i learned a few things along the way.
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Old 01-23-2012, 02:12 PM   #84
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I wanted to update everyone, it's been 4 months and the parasitic drain is still present. It is better and the fuse #41 draw has been cured by the new amplifier. But the battery continues to go dead and it is very intermittent. I would love to rent a sophisticated recording device to take a look at various channels and move it from fuse to fuse. I am hoping that someone with some skills reads this and comes to the rescue, having a car that can drain the battery at any moment is no fun to drive. looking for some advice. Thanks, CH
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Old 01-23-2012, 02:35 PM   #85
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http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103962

You might need to add an inductive current loop, however, you can log and monitor Voltage with this meter. You might be able to find something on ebay as well, however, I have 3 of these meters and the software is pretty good. Just note this meter is RS232, so if you do not have a laptop with RS232 you will need a USB to RS232 adapter, they do work with this meter as I have a USB to deal RS232 cable that I have run 2 of these meters from a single machine before.

I did not read the entire thread, but if you do not drive the car often, if it sits for more than 10 days at a time, you need a Battery Tender or solar charger.

Also it sounds like you have a lot of stereo gear in the car, you may have exceeded the alternator output and you may be draining the battery. Also the AGM style batteries have crummy Reserve capacity, you really need a decent lead/acid with a big reserve.

Also study up on the Unloader Relay also called Fuel Injector relay in some of the later models, they can stick and hang, usually they can be swapped with the rear window or horn relay for a test??
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:31 PM   #86
gramps05ZHP
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Parasitic draw....I know your pain

heros,

I completely understand your pain. I have an 05 330i ZHP with the same problem, although I do have an Dice Ipod adapter installed, plus angel eyes, they are not my problem.

Here's my problem.....I have the standard biz CD in my car w/HK, no nav. My radio while asleep runs my CD ejection motor. My amp draw ranges from 1.3 to 1.8 amps. I thought too I had a cure when I found a couple of wires in a bundle going to my BT module in drivers side trunk. But as of yesterday, I am back to square 1.

I am going to finish what I started before I found the wires, and that is to visit each grounding terminal with the car, roughly 9 locations and clean/inspect/reinstall each.

I have been troubleshooting this problem for 5 months, I have bought programming software/OBDII/Flukes/Amp probes/etc. I will figure this out.

Here is a note that I have learned from other forums....is that BMW knows about parasitic draw...they recommend that you just drive the car daily...lol....they also know that it can be several different components that cause the draw....it can be the IKHA/heater controller, radio, drivers headlight switch...my point is rarely is there a common component between vehicles...check out the X5 forum, it is quite common on those.

So my recommendation is to check ALL the grounding points, and harnesses for chaffed wires. I will be in touch. FYI, I can read schematics, use a Fluke, interpret data...but I am not an ASE certified car doctor.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:40 PM   #87
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I doubt your parasitic current draw has anything to do with ground or chaffed wiring.

More than likely a problem with an electronic component that is not shutting off, radio, GM5 module, keyfob antenna, BMW Assist or something like that.

Suggest you actually measure the current draw after 16 minutes the car should go into sleep mode and the current draw should drop.

If you have a way to automatically log the current draw, this would be good to see what the current draw does over time.

I would expect that the sleep or standby current draw should be approximatle7 40-90 mA as the max. Even 90 mA is probably on the high side, but this is just guess as I have not actually measured any of my BMW's yet.

The other thing is have you checked the battery out completely, what is the battery reserve capacity and what type of battery are you using?
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:29 AM   #88
celluloidheros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103962

You might need to add an inductive current loop, however, you can log and monitor Voltage with this meter. You might be able to find something on ebay as well, however, I have 3 of these meters and the software is pretty good. Just note this meter is RS232, so if you do not have a laptop with RS232 you will need a USB to RS232 adapter, they do work with this meter as I have a USB to deal RS232 cable that I have run 2 of these meters from a single machine before.

I did not read the entire thread, but if you do not drive the car often, if it sits for more than 10 days at a time, you need a Battery Tender or solar charger.

Also it sounds like you have a lot of stereo gear in the car, you may have exceeded the alternator output and you may be draining the battery. Also the AGM style batteries have crummy Reserve capacity, you really need a decent lead/acid with a big reserve.

Also study up on the Unloader Relay also called Fuel Injector relay in some of the later models, they can stick and hang, usually they can be swapped with the rear window or horn relay for a test??
Hello, thanks for your suggestions. I would like to buy a new Current meter that had an Inductive loop for DC voltage. the issue is we are talking about very low Current. My car draws 10 mAmps in sleep mode. I have an RS232 computer, its the 15 pin D shell connector, I also have the USB to rs232 adapter with both male and female pin adapters.

only have Grom box connected, nothing else, everything is stock. All that talk about capacitors and JL Audio amps was for my Honda. I installed the Grom recently well after the problem started so it not the Grom.

I did replace the 10 channel amp in the trunk with a new one because it was staying on and drawing current through fuse #41.

I have pulled every fuse one by one and watch current draw, Fuse #41 and 63 were the only ones that had current draw.

But the issue is hard to catch, when i connect my Amp meter it always shows <50mamps after 16 minutes. I would love to connect an inductive current meter to the main battery line and plot the current draw, my guess is that an inductive meter would not be accurate enough to catch a current draw of 500 mamps which is about what i have.

I could also attach a meter to a particular fuse like #63 and watch it.

Thanks for your help, driving the car every day does work.

Can anyone tell me a good way to see if i've killed my battery with some many charge/discharge cycles. Also, i have not been disconnecting the battery when i recharge it. i charge at a very low rate (like .5 amp) and do it from the front under hood connections, Is this bad ?

Anyway, thanks for the help. Don Crandall

Last edited by celluloidheros; 02-08-2012 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:39 AM   #89
celluloidheros
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Originally Posted by gramps05ZHP View Post
heros,

I completely understand your pain. I have an 05 330i ZHP with the same problem, although I do have an Dice Ipod adapter installed, plus angel eyes, they are not my problem.

Here's my problem.....I have the standard biz CD in my car w/HK, no nav. My radio while asleep runs my CD ejection motor. My amp draw ranges from 1.3 to 1.8 amps. I thought too I had a cure when I found a couple of wires in a bundle going to my BT module in drivers side trunk. But as of yesterday, I am back to square 1.

I am going to finish what I started before I found the wires, and that is to visit each grounding terminal with the car, roughly 9 locations and clean/inspect/reinstall each.

I have been troubleshooting this problem for 5 months, I have bought programming software/OBDII/Flukes/Amp probes/etc. I will figure this out.

Here is a note that I have learned from other forums....is that BMW knows about parasitic draw...they recommend that you just drive the car daily...lol....they also know that it can be several different components that cause the draw....it can be the IKHA/heater controller, radio, drivers headlight switch...my point is rarely is there a common component between vehicles...check out the X5 forum, it is quite common on those.

So my recommendation is to check ALL the grounding points, and harnesses for chaffed wires. I will be in touch. FYI, I can read schematics, use a Fluke, interpret data...but I am not an ASE certified car doctor.
Hello, Have you found a way to use an inductive current meter that you can leave connected ? On the 330 series, the FSU (Final stage resistor) for the a/c climate control main fan is the Number one cause of parasitic drain. I would recommend that you look here first. It is an easy replacement if you follow the simple DIY's.

Can you explain how a bad ground would cause a parasitic draw ? I could see if it's on the red cable from the + side of the battery. I know that current leakage through grounds can happen but i need a refresher course to understand ? If everything is shut off, how can a bad ground cause leakage.

I think that an electrical component is not turning off or turning on by itself. The FSU/FSR definitely does this. I had a car where the interior light would suddenly come on for no reason, could have been a bad door switch.

Thanks for the tips, i would love to find a way to measure and plot the current draw while leaving the battery connected.

I will check the X5 forum, thanks again, Don C (celluloidheros)
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:49 AM   #90
celluloidheros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
I doubt your parasitic current draw has anything to do with ground or chaffed wiring.

More than likely a problem with an electronic component that is not shutting off, radio, GM5 module, keyfob antenna, BMW Assist or something like that.

Suggest you actually measure the current draw after 16 minutes the car should go into sleep mode and the current draw should drop.

If you have a way to automatically log the current draw, this would be good to see what the current draw does over time.

I would expect that the sleep or standby current draw should be approximatle7 40-90 mA as the max. Even 90 mA is probably on the high side, but this is just guess as I have not actually measured any of my BMW's yet.

The other thing is have you checked the battery out completely, what is the battery reserve capacity and what type of battery are you using?
Can you tell me how to log the current over time while Keeping the battery connected ? I have to detach the pos. terminal and put my Fluke inline with it. The does not allow my to start the car, i would need a 50 AMP meter that could handle the large current draw when you start the car and run it with all the lights and stuff running.

i understand about they 16 min wait time and the bmw spec for current draw of 50-70 mamps. I usually draw only 10-30 mamps.

I think the best path it to get a Current meter that is accurate and that has an output for rs232 or usb and that plots the current draw. I could also get a card or box that gives me multiple channels and i could put them on multiple fuses to catch when one is staying on.

if anyone could recommend a reasonably priced one, it's seems like an easy thing to give you probes or little clips/wires that feed a box which then feeds a laptop. i know that some of these were 5000 when they came out. They need to recoup R and d costs.

Thanks, CH
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:09 PM   #91
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Okay i found a cool way to measure current draw. You get a 1 Ohm resistor 10 watts will work but a 250 or 1000 watts would work better if you want to leave the meter connected when you run the car. You use a volt meter (not amp) and measure current drop across the resistor. the resistor is inline with the neg battery cable and the volt meter goes on either side of the resistor. Scotty Kilmer on Youtube uses this method with great success.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:24 AM   #92
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I wanted to reopen this thread, I still have the parasitic current draw, if I drive the car every day, i don't notice it. If it sits for a few days the battery dies. Just recently I started casually troubleshooting. I notice that if I pull fuse #63 that the issue goes away. I hear the little fan in the A/C control unit spinning, This is even after the car has been off awhile and i open the door. I know that fuse 63 is for the a/c clutch but it also controls power for the a/c and heater controller unit. BTW I have replaced this a/c heater control unit, the FSR and the A/C relay which is inside the glove box kinda behind the fuse box. I'm wondering if its a computer issue ? I'd like to find an instrument that can monitor the current draw of fuse #63 to see how it is acting. The little fan inside the a/c control unit is only supposed to stay on until the car goes to sleep which is like 16 minutes. This is kinda frustrating because it is a intermittent problem. I have 1/2 a mind to put a switch on fuse #63 or wire it over to the switched side of the fuse box. Fuse #63 is on the bottom which means it's not switched with the key. So there must me another voltage that the a/c heater controller needs since it turns off with the key but won't power up unless #63 is active. i could use some help on this. I know it's a hard one. There has to be another person where the same failure mode occured. Thanks, DC
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:14 PM   #93
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Subscribed don't have much to contribute but would like to know whats the cause
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:03 PM   #94
celluloidheros
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Do you have a similar issue ?
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:08 AM   #95
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Sort of, although I've read the whole thread I havent gone thru the strenuous amount of work and fiddling that you have. For the last week or so my battery has had difficulty starting. I've completely ruled out the alternater since I'm getting a healthy 14.1 while the car is on but if I leave the car sitting for a few hour or listen to the radio with the car off it won't start at all or ill get a couple clicks from the starter and then it'll turn over and start. I've cleaned all my grounds and have checked the connections on the alternator they seem to be just fine. I've checked the the connections on the battery also and they have no corrosion of any kind mind you I'm still on the OE battery. The battery might be the cause of my problem although honestly other than checking the terminals on it I haven't checked the battery itself (is there any way I could do this muself?). Lastly my fsr has acted up last few months, I don't have the sporadic speeds that usually seems to be the issue but I sometimes when I turn on the fan it won't blow at all. After maybe half an hour of driving it'll come on to whatever speed setting its on. I'm gonna start by replacing the battery and the fsr and go from there because Ive had to park my car on hills all week due to this issue( pop clutch to start) although o can't thank you enough for the time and effort you've spent updating the thread it gives me a differeent perspective to look at things. Hope you resolve your issue soon enough.
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:12 PM   #96
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Replace the battery, If it was the FSR, you would see the Fan speed acting abnormal when you drive the car, it would go up and down.

Last edited by celluloidheros; 12-20-2014 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:12 PM   #97
gramps05ZHP
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current draw, damn parasites

I had that problem last summer and for 10 months after. I took a strategic approach to the matter by removing the individual users, then the fuses in the circuit. I had an amp probe, a homemade clip and resister setup that you can find how to build on YouTube. One thing I noticed was when my problem started, my rear view mirror lost its night dimming feature. I was down to my last few fuses and last bit of patience, then I remembered that the mirror and the rain sense device is located together. So I removed the mirror assembly, inspected and reinstalled. I reseated the mirror and the dimming feature returned and my current draw disappeared, so far not to return, but I'm watching. I know this is a brief synopsis, but I only have a minute to spare. Take it for what its worth, there are alot of know-it-alls, but sometimes doing thing outside the box works. Strange but true. I have faith in your process.

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Old 10-09-2012, 04:43 PM   #98
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hello, I am convinced that the issue is related to fuse #63. I hear the little fan in side the a/c heater control unit spinning after the car goes into sleep mode. Like when I open the drivers side door. Im still trying to figure out what is controlling this little fan as I have replaced the unit with a new one. any info on fuse #63 is appreciated.

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Old 01-14-2013, 12:21 PM   #99
celluloidheros
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I jumped fuse #63 up to one of the fuse locations like 24 or 25 that turns off with the key. The issue is now fixed, so it was #63 that was acting up to. So in Summary it was a bad AMP and the AC clutch circuit.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:32 PM   #100
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Wow and thank you for keeping this up to date with your experiences tracking it down.

I'm having a similar problem and am doing a little research before digging down (hopefully don't need to go as far as you have here ). Read the whole thing and props for not getting frustrated at the people clearly not reading the thread. I like your method and will likely have to take the same approach. Congrats on finally getting a fix implemented
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