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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 01-19-2012, 09:37 PM   #1
Lou845
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Safc or other digital tuning.

So recently I was at a local store and happen to see a group of cars (5 of which were e46's) long story short after approaching them and seeing there cars I had notice a e46 coupe had a safc2 unit mounted on the dash and told me he was able to control his air fuel mixture etc and basically tune his car, it was NA stock no upgrades besides intake and exhaust, I no the Apexis system is popular in hondas since they have vtec controller built in, after seeing the fellow e46 with it I wanna learn more and do it as well, any one have any info on it ? Or other systems that are similar that can be displayed in the vehicle ?
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:02 PM   #2
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Are you referring to this ?


http://apexi-usa.com/shop/index.php/...-inverted.html
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:06 PM   #3
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Yea something like that, never seen it in a BMW before, is it even effective ? Or is there a company that makes some sort of system similar to it for BMW ?
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:51 AM   #4
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changing the AFR isn't really "tuning", especially when the stock ECU is going to constantly try and correct it back to the stock calibration.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:44 PM   #5
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changing the AFR isn't really "tuning", especially when the stock ECU is going to constantly try and correct it back to the stock calibration.


huh? adjusting the air fuel ratio is part of tuning... the main purpose of using one of these devices is to adjust the afr after upgrading injectors. also when wot the dme (ECU) doesn't look at o2 sensors so you can adjust the afr without the dme trying to correct for it.
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:10 PM   #6
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No, it doesnt work that way.

While it doesn't use real time feedback, it does store long term trims that are applied everywhere, including wot. Unless you change the lambda target map, it will automatically retarget the stock afr curves.

Real tuning would involve ignition map asjustments and dyno feedback. The stock ecu already does a good job at matching afr targets, and adding a half point of fuelwill rarely make much of a difference.

Plus you are adding fuel at a global level, linearly, when the real dynamics of the engine are not linear at all.

If you want to change the injectors, the ecu needs reprogrammed for them. Aside from the flow rate change, things like response time and voltage curves are unlikely to be the same. That means the DME will expect a linear increase in fuel with increased PW, but the response will be non linear instead.

People will still continue to believe they can just swap in different inectors without software, without understanding the consequences. Whatever.

Last edited by hassmaschine; 01-24-2012 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:56 PM   #7
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No, it doesnt work that way.

While it doesn't use real time feedback, it does store long term trims that are applied everywhere, including wot.
correct, which is why when you add larger injectors you adjust idle and part throttle to factory afr then the ecu will not need to change anything, then when wot you can tune for a richer or leaner afr if you desire. those air/fuel controllers can set usually 16 different rpm points and part throttle/ wot maps

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Real tuning would involve ignition map asjustments
yes that is another PART of tuning



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Plus you are adding fuel at a global level, linearly, when the real dynamics of the engine are not linear at all.
again 16 different rpm point and part and full throttle adjustment


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People will still continue to believe they can just swap in different inectors without software, without understanding the consequences.
If these products didnt work, they wouldnt be bought and mass produced. The fact is they do work, call it crude if you want but people have made 800+ hp using devices like these.

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Whatever.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:52 PM   #8
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Once you understand how those controllers work, weather it's AFC or any kind of other MAF translator, you will see how it isn't the best option. It does work for minor adjustments though. But in the end, anything greater than a 5% adjusting more than just fuel.

All the controller does is intercept the MAF signal, modify it and send a new signal to the DME. The common thing people do is run larger injectors, then scale the fuel back 30-40% to run these injectors properly. All the controller does is manipulate the MAF signal and make the DME think it's running in a much lower load range then it really is since as we all know, lower loads = less fuel so the DME sees this and applies less injector pulse width. Magically, your running a different AF! Miracle isn't it? But is it? If you have ever looked at fuel and ignition tables, you will see there is one VERY large flaw with this. Less load generally = MORE ignition advance. Using a -30% adjustment would add a significant amount of timing. Depending on application and use, I've seen it adding over 20* of timing. Say hello to detonation!


Again, in SMALL adjustments 5% or less it wouldn't be bad and the timing advance would only change a degree or 2. But in the end just remember, if you take away fuel with the controller, you are also adding timing. Same with adding fuel with it, chances are you may even lose a bit of timing.
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:06 AM   #9
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Once you understand how those controllers work, weather it's AFC or any kind of other MAF translator, you will see how it isn't the best option. It does work for minor adjustments though. But in the end, anything greater than a 5% adjusting more than just fuel.

All the controller does is intercept the MAF signal, modify it and send a new signal to the DME. The common thing people do is run larger injectors, then scale the fuel back 30-40% to run these injectors properly. All the controller does is manipulate the MAF signal and make the DME think it's running in a much lower load range then it really is since as we all know, lower loads = less fuel so the DME sees this and applies less injector pulse width. Magically, your running a different AF! Miracle isn't it? But is it? If you have ever looked at fuel and ignition tables, you will see there is one VERY large flaw with this. Less load generally = MORE ignition advance. Using a -30% adjustment would add a significant amount of timing. Depending on application and use, I've seen it adding over 20* of timing. Say hello to detonation!


Again, in SMALL adjustments 5% or less it wouldn't be bad and the timing advance would only change a degree or 2. But in the end just remember, if you take away fuel with the controller, you are also adding timing. Same with adding fuel with it, chances are you may even lose a bit of timing.
agree
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:21 AM   #10
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it will also affect vanos positioning and injector timing (the latter is a small concern; +/- 10 degrees makes virtually no difference).

but that still says nothing about injector response times and the lack of reprogramming for them. :p
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