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Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:14 AM   #1
signalwest
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Hello, I have a 2001 330i with the TS2 SC. Straight headers, full magnaflow exhaust, BMW perf air intake and some other upgrades like brakes, clutch, flywheel, suspension, sways etc. I can run neck and neck with a 2011 M3, DCT/comp pkg (stock) on the Autobahn. I am looking for some extra power and have been tossing around an idea that I cannot seem to find anyone doing with the TS2 (with the AA TS, but not ESS TS2). I want to add 50/50 meth kit to the equation. Question is where to tap? I think between the throttle body and the MAF will work. I have read that the ESS TS SC has hard anodized rotors so spraying in this location should be fine. I am just looking to see if anyone has done this and/or looking for advice from experienced folks on this forum concerning my particular setup.

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Old 02-01-2012, 07:56 AM   #2
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Hmm. I've never really considered meth a power adder unless you're planning to re-tune to take advantage of the effective octane increase but with the stock DME tune, you would have no way to switch tunes to support running with and without meth. You could run meth with the "stock" ESS tune and simply use it to add an extra margin of safety against pre-ignition/detonation by reducing IATs but you likely wouldn't see much power gain because the car wouldn't be able to directly detect the lower IAT (assuming the knock sensors aren't already causing timing retard).

If reducing the IAT is your goal though, I would think you would get more benefit from injecting after the compressor and not before as you have suggested. And regardless of the rotor surface finish, I would still be concerned about surface pitting or possibly even corrosion from long term meth injection. I'm no expert on using methanol though so hopefully my comments will spark some discussion amongst those more knowledgeable.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:17 AM   #3
signalwest
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I am looking at lowering the IAT and possibly some performance from the 50/50. I think the biggest reason is I am looking at going with the 81mm pulley without the cams at this time. ESS has an usupported tune for using the 81mm pulley with the TS2. I want to give that a try and since I do some higher speeds on the Autobahn (at times) I am looking at the meth kit to provide some insurance for the smaller pulley (half pound of boost). I just wanted to get some good/bad feedback here. I will become the ginuea pig, so to speak, as I have not seen this done yet with the ESS TS system Thank you for the feedback.

Last edited by signalwest; 02-01-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:37 PM   #4
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I would install a larger heat exchanger which will offset the increased outlet temps from the charger.

The problem with meth is that you can not be sure that you are getting even distribution to all cylinders unless injecting with individual nozzles.
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:22 PM   #5
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I spoke to AJ about adding meth to the TS as well. His response is that meth will eat away at the coating of the scrolls.
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:25 PM   #6
signalwest
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Then I saw this post:
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...ndly-2079.html
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:57 PM   #7
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I think with meth, you will get a little extra hp. I think the tune that ESS gives us has a lot of flexibility with timing and can adjust slightly for higher octanes. I noticed a little extra power on the butt dyno using 100+ octane fuel mixed with regular 93 octane.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:07 PM   #8
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I hope the meth will help with the performance, but I am hoping even more that it will provide some security if I go with the 81mm pulley for a half pound more boost. Now I just need to find the best place to tap to mount the spray nozzle. I am still thinking between the throttle body and the MAF either tapping the silicone tubing there or getting an aluminum replacement tube and tapping that or tapping somewhere on the throttle body, but not sure if there will be much room. I don't want to tap into the SC itself. I am hoping the ESS TS2 has the hard anodized rotors so it will not affect them in a negative way. So far it seems they do, but I am waiting back from Absjorn and Lysholm themselves on this.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:37 PM   #9
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I just got off the phone with Lysholm and they said they are familiar with ESS Tuning's TS kit that uses their SC and they said the rotors are actually still made in Sweden and they are indeed hard anodized and spraying 50/50 meth is good to go. They also said that spraying after the rotors would be best which means I would have to tap into the SC compressor, but they also said before or at the throttle body would still yield decent results....and still safe. Looks like this project will be a go.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:52 PM   #10
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I think it will be ok, as you are only running .5psi of extra boost but be sure all the cylinders are getting a good amount of meth.

Some more info this forum:

http://www.bmwclubmalaysia.com/forum...ing-the-M54B30
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:42 PM   #11
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Good find. I have been searching for someone doing this with a ESS TS kit. Not very encouraging though...but I think you are right. I am not wanting 10psi from this just the .5 extra boost and smaller 81mm pulley with the ESS tune for that without cams. The meth is just there for insurance. Thanks again for the post though. Looks like the Devil's Own kit may work for me with the controller. Anyone know using their calculator for nozzle size...do we put in how many liters our stock engine is or do we add 1.6 liters to our 3 liters for 4.6 in their calculator to get the right nozzle size. Maybe I should call them.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/nozzle-selector.php
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:12 AM   #12
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Any reason why you don't want to do the cams? I've got the TS2+ with cams and power is pretty good. I have thought about doing water/meth as well but I thought you would have to tap the manifold for the spray nozzles...
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:24 PM   #13
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I inquired about this in the past. Hans did mention not being safe before the rotor and may void the remaining warranty. Best is to tap on the manifold to ensure its even on all intake ports.

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Old 02-04-2012, 10:24 AM   #14
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Dirtboy, I think we are about an hour from each other. Did you do your own cams or someone else (if so how much)? I am not doing them now because both not experienced in going internal and someone else (German high prices) doing them for $$$. I am doing 50/50 meth using the new AEM progressive kit. I'll be spaying between MAF and throttle body. I called Lysholm and inquired about the SC we use and they said spray away...the rotors are hard anodized. I am a little concerned about the distribution of the spray through the manifold, but it should be ok. I would imagine the design would be set up to distribute the air evenly...spray or not. I will not be tuning for the meth...I will keep the original ESS TS2 tune. I will analyze the AFR, boost etc. See how it runs WOT. And then seriously think about either going to the 81mm pulley or getting the cams. I think it will be fun to try it out.....unless something blows up...... at that point I'll be crying...why didn't I listen to Dirt Boy!
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:30 AM   #15
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Au2bahn, looks like rotors are hard anodized according to Lysholm, but understand that ESS does not support it. My 2 year warranty is up in a few months and so far the car has been an absolute blast. I need another fix and I have a friend who has been running 50/50 meth kits on a few different cars for years and it has been nothing but positive (looks like he is putting a meth kit on his 2008 ZO6 Edelbrock supercharged vette next month). I am hoping to get the same results. Again I will not tune for it or change pulley size etc until we monitor the results for a few months (when it gets a little warmer).

Last edited by signalwest; 02-07-2012 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 02-04-2012, 01:37 PM   #16
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OP, I have a few thoughts.

Take a look at this product from Snow Performance, you would mix this in with your 50/50 mix.

Nitro Booster / I would dial your system in on the dyno first, once you had everything working properly with good AFR numbers, I'd give this a try. If this stuff made ANY WHP at all, even just 5 or 10, I'd say it well worth the money.
http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=5

Main BMW Product Page
http://www.snowperformance.net/products.php?p_cat=173

Cams: On one hand, you can always just buy the $1400 (U.S) 248/256 cams from ESS Tuning. But a much cheaper way to do it would be this: Go find yourself a new or used 248 ZHP intake cam. Then PM me for a 252 exhaust cam, my motor builder has these. Depending on how cheap you can get the 248 ZHP cam for, I'd say your total cost would be Half or less than the ESS 248/256 cam package.


Good luck in your endeavors,
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Old 02-04-2012, 03:18 PM   #17
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Rob, thanks for the info on snow performance. I've looked at their kits, but not hard at the other items. I might have to try that out. For the cams. Sounds really interesting. I may get in touch with you about this before too long. Thanks again!
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Old 02-05-2012, 09:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signalwest View Post
Dirtboy, I think we are about an hour from each other. Did you do your own cams or someone else (if so how much)? I am not doing them now because both not experienced in going internal and someone else (German high prices) doing them for $$$. I am doing 50/50 meth using the new AEM progressive kit. I'll be spaying between MAF and throttle body. I called Lysholm and inquired about the SC we use and they said spray away...the rotors are hard anodized. I am a little concerned about the distribution of the spray through the manifold, but it should be ok. I would imagine the design would be set up to distribute the air evenly...spray or not. I will not be tuning for the meth...I will keep the original ESS TS2 tune. I will analyze the AFR, boost etc. See how it runs WOT. And then seriously think about either going to the 81mm pulley or getting the cams. I think it will be fun to try it out.....unless something blows up...... at that point I'll be crying...why didn't I listen to Dirt Boy!
I was a bit foolish and had the BMW dealer here do the cam install (I did the SC install my self). Had I known better, I would have let the local shop that did work on my e30 install the cams in my e46; a lot cheaper. Plus, the dealer made me sign papers saying that the cams were not able to be warranted because they were not OEM parts...

I have been worried about using water/meth kits in a twin screw setup because of the compression between the screws. I thought that in order to take full advantage of the water injection, it should be injected AFTER the SC in order to cool down the compressed air. And in our case with the ESS TS system, that would mean tapping each intake runner after the intercooler and before the fuel injectors. I mean, what's the point of cooling the air before the SC only to have it heated up again once it gets compressed? Am I wrong in thinking this?

Let me know if the water/meth works out cuz I may need it when I move to Las Vegas this summer. That and a larger intercooler...
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:03 AM   #19
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Porting after the twinscrew on each runner to ensure even volume for each cylinder is what Hans recommend when I inquired last year.

But OP please let us know your findings

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Old 02-05-2012, 11:51 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Au2bahn View Post
Porting after the twinscrew on each runner to ensure even volume for each cylinder is what Hans recommend when I inquired last year.
The most work but definitely the best approach.
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