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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 02-21-2012, 08:38 PM   #1
fraser19
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NA water meth

I have been reading about water methanol injection for a few years now and its clear there are many benefit to using it on FI or NA cars.
Now the benefit are a lot more obvious with a FI engine but it can be a useful tool in an NA engine as well.

What my cousin has been doing for the last while with his Challanger 6.4 was using mid grade gas 87 octane and using water meth when not racing to get back the loss and it has been working well. On days at the track he uses 91 and keeps the meth settings the same.
He made small gains on the dyno with meth about 14rwhp with his timing increases and no engine knocking. He has also experiences a small increase in gas mileage.

Now I am wondering if i can do the same with my 330ci?
I don't care so much about using lower grade gas.
Do you think small gains could be made with a multi stage water meth set up?
I have around 100 000 MI on my engine so the benefit of water meth and removing carbon deposits is also a benefit that seems worth looking into.
The more i read about it the more it seems our cars are pretty difficult to tune but i assume i could make power with this as everyone else is making power with bolt ons and no tune.
as always a slight increase in gas mileage is always a good time.

So what are your thoughts on the value of running a multi stage water meth system so that a maximum of 8% of total fuel consumption is water meth.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:18 AM   #2
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No. And is this about the drug meth or methanol?

Here is a good thread on water/methanol injection:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...injection.html

Water/methanol injection is used to raise the octane rating of the gas. So if you have a turbo or supercharger, you install the injeciton kit, wire it to come on when you go WOT, and run 93 octane daily.

BUTTTTT, why would you need this stuff if you are N/A and drive a street car with normal compression? You don't need higher than 93 octane. You are just making this overly complicated.

Your cousin made gains because he's using the wrong gas. His first dyno showed losses with crappy gas. The water/methanol raised the octane rating to where it should have been with the gas he should have been running.

If you'd like to get your car custom tuned for crazy amounts of advanced timing at WOT with water/methanol injection, that *might* work, but you can't just keep upping the timing.

So again, No.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:35 AM   #3
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Water/methanol injection is used to cool the stratified charge. It allows more ignition advance to be run as a result. Yes, it can make more power on NA engines but it is more effective on engines with very high compression ratios which will detonate or not reliably spark unless race gas is used.

On a relatively low compression engine like an M54 the gains would likely be minimal, but there is an opportunity for gains. You would need to have a good tuner with access to the timing and fuel maps to find out for sure. It would be a lot of work for a small amount of power.
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:19 PM   #4
///Mpower3357
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Re: NA water meth

Its a great option for our engines. and since when was 10:1 a low compression ratio? Water injection adds efficiency to nearly any engine by cooling intake temperature, increasing cylinder pressure, cooling engine temp, and increasing octane. The ecu will adapt immediately as long as too much water isn't being injected. I personally have a Snow Performance MAF controlled progressive injection controller. Instant torque gains will be noticed, as well as increased economy and lowered emissions. Also, oil stays clean longer.

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Old 01-05-2014, 10:08 PM   #5
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Its a great option for our engines. and since when was 10:1 a low compression ratio? Water injection adds efficiency to nearly any engine by cooling intake temperature, increasing cylinder pressure, cooling engine temp, and increasing octane. The ecu will adapt immediately as long as too much water isn't being injected. I personally have a Snow Performance MAF controlled progressive injection controller. Instant torque gains will be noticed, as well as increased economy and lowered emissions. Also, oil stays clean longer.

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Bump from the dead, but good info. I've always been a believer & advocate of water meth injection on a N/A motor like the M54B30.

Can you post up some pics of your installed Snow Performance injection system, we'd all like to see it. Any before & after dyno's to see ?
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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:30 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by ///Mpower3357 View Post
Its a great option for our engines. and since when was 10:1 a low compression ratio? Water injection adds efficiency to nearly any engine by cooling intake temperature, increasing cylinder pressure, cooling engine temp, and increasing octane. The ecu will adapt immediately as long as too much water isn't being injected. I personally have a Snow Performance MAF controlled progressive injection controller. Instant torque gains will be noticed, as well as increased economy and lowered emissions. Also, oil stays clean longer.

Sent using my cellular tele
10:1 is common these days in naturally aspirated engines.

If there was power to be had on an M54 with increased octane, decreased charge temps, etc. then we would have seen it in the switch to E85 which accomplishes the same thing. We didn't.

I'd like to see some back to back dynos showing that the water injection makes more power on a naturally aspirated engine.
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:33 PM   #7
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10:1 is common these days in naturally aspirated engines.

If there was power to be had on an M54 with increased octane, decreased charge temps, etc. then we would have seen it in the switch to E85 which accomplishes the same thing. We didn't.

I'd like to see some back to back dynos showing that the water injection makes more power on a naturally aspirated engine.

Actually,.........ME TOO.

Maybe I'll put out a "Challenge/Call To Arms" to get this done while I'm on the dyno in the near future. I'd need a forum member to bring me (either to the dyno or my home) a working water meth unit that I could just spray in while doing a dyno pull.
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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:31 AM   #8
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:07 PM   #9
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Sounds like ///Mpower3357 has proven gains from water injection so it should be simple matter of him posting a back to back dyno comparison plot.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:10 PM   #10
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Sounds like ///Mpower3357 has proven gains from water injection so it should be simple matter of him posting a back to back dyno comparison plot.

Yeah,.............................and I've got a dollar that says we'll never see that !
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Old 01-08-2014, 03:14 PM   #11
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Just get a squirt bottle from Target for a buck, fill up with some distilled and meth, and use the integrated hand throttle. I hear you make an extra 20hp if the bottle is pink!
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:27 PM   #12
///Mpower3357
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Ok. Lets make this bet worth my time. When I post w/o meth vs w/ meth, and the hp/tq curve is improved, as well as emissions analysis reveal dramatically reduced levels of chemicals....you not only appologize for your ignorance, but pay for my dyno time. I mean, with such crazy claims...you should have nothing to worry about.

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Old 01-12-2014, 03:15 PM   #13
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Who, me? I was making a joke, and it was aimed at Rob.
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:58 PM   #14
///Mpower3357
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Im just saying I know theres an increase in power, primarily torque. Its a fact less fuel is being burnt, from my l/100km*mpg. Even kept efficient when it was -15F.

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Old 01-12-2014, 08:10 PM   #15
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If I get free dyno runs out if the deal, im down. My water meth system going into my truck is what really excites me. Dodge 5.9l, with HHO. I went from 10.5 mpg to 17mpg. With the right amount/process of water, you can see the hidden potential of the most powerful element in the universe.

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Old 01-12-2014, 08:17 PM   #16
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Old 01-12-2014, 10:22 PM   #17
///Mpower3357
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no damning input? just laughter.

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Old 01-13-2014, 06:44 AM   #18
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All these fantastical claims of how water injection will improve a BMW engine and no proof to back it up. Typical.
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