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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 01-20-2012, 07:23 PM   #21
jfoj
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DISA usually causes misfire is the center cylinders more often than not. Depending on how cold the ambient temps are and how much the DISA O-rings leaks air and where will possibly cause a misfire in one or cylinders depending on where the DISA O-ring is leaking and how the DISA value is positioned.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:39 PM   #22
Dippinwandy
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would this cause a code to be thrown?
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:50 PM   #23
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Yes, most misfires you feel will through a code.

What everyone needs to understand is the DISA seal was really put in the wrong plane on the end of the unit. If the seal was on the face where the DISA flange met the intake rather than the inner circumference, there would probably be a lot less problems.
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:53 AM   #24
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If it was the DISA seal it would always run rough not during cold start enrichment. And it wouldn't go away after shutting down the engine and restarting.
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:59 AM   #25
jfoj
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The DISA O-ring leak seals up quickly due the quick expansion of the plastic parts and is a very small, but devastating vacuum leak for cold starts. Although I recommend the DISA O-ring be replaced, some cars will need a NEW DISA as well, but the O-ring will help any DISA valve regardless of overall condition.

Also the other thing that happens is with carbon build up on the intake valves, it acts as a sponge and absorbs fuel during the initial start up. Just like a sponge, once is it wet, it will not absorb more fuel. So with a partial vacuum leak and carbon build up you will have a lean misfire for a short period during cold start up. Once the car has run for a short period, or is turned of and restated withing the first few minutes the fuel cut off is bypassed. Once the fuel cut off is bypassed or reset, then the engine will no longer misfire like the engine is going to fall out of the car!

So the DISA vacuum leak usually impacts the center cylinders more so than than cylinder 1 & 6. If you remove the DISA for inspection and do not replace the O-ring you have just made your problems worse!

Another possibility is the vacuum control hose (both rubber and hard plastic hose) that connects to the SAP check valve. This SAP check valve vacuum hose only has vacuum for the first 90 seconds during cold engine start up. A smoke test will not pick up this SAP vacuum hose as there is an electric solenoid under the intake that is closed except for during cold start up for the first 90 seconds. The way to check this hose with a smoke test is to disconnect the vacuum hose as the SAP check valve and "backfeed" this hose. The other very easy test is to disconnect the vacuum line at the SAP check value and just put a hand vacuum pump on the connection and see if you can hold a vacuum in this short section of line, if not, you have a problem with this 3 foot section. You could also try to block down this line with your mouth, you may need an extension on the end so you can get your mouth on this hose.

Everyone needs to leave the expensive/hard part replacement for last. You are wasting you time, money and effort replacing expensive hard parts if you have not addressed the rubber parts. The rubber on these car is all failing as it is at least 6+ years old and is hard, dried out and oil soak.

Quit screwing around, re-read my link, spend not more than $50 and get your current problems solved. But keep in mind, you will probably need to do more maintenance and replace other rubber parts to really head off your problems.

You really need to replace all the rubber and plastic parts connecting to the intake and crankcase on these cars. This includes the entire CCV system, intake elbow, ICV hoses, SAP vacuum lines and pressure hose, dip stick o-rings, vacuum caps and probably the entire DISA to really keep your car in top notch and basically vacuum leak problem free for another 6+ years. If you are smart you will do this one time and your cold start headache will be gone for a long time. You can do all of this for less than the cost of MAF, spark plugs, coils, O2 sensors and all the typical hard parts people replace first!

Also do not forget what your cooling system is made of, plastic and rubber, same rules apply here but this is a totally different discussion!

Last edited by jfoj; 01-25-2012 at 06:01 AM.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:35 AM   #26
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I suppose for the small price to pay for an o-ring it could be worth a shot. Had my CCV replaced to no avail.
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:04 AM   #27
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2nd checking the SAP vacuum lines, and everything else jfoj said. There is a Plastic tube (part #3 in the drawing below) that has a connector on both ends that can split open, and the tube itself will become brittle and crack. It runs along the valve cover, above the exhaust manifolds. It is usually clipped in with the o2 sensor lines. It will not show up in a smoke test, unless you start with a dead cold engine, because it only opens up when it needs to open the valve for the SAP. I would replace all of it, parts #3 and #4 in the drawing below.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...03&hg=11&fg=45
I seriously doubt it is the lifter, but I could be completely wrong. It just seems to be a long shot. I would also take a second look at the electrical connections for the coil and fuel injector on cylinder #5. It could be that they are not making connection when they are cold. Use some electrical parts cleaner on the connectors, and make sure they are engaging correctly. Look for bent pins, etc. You may even want to try one of the electrical connector repair kits on the injector connector. That seems to be a more likely problem. You have done good work so far, switching out the coils and injectors. That was a smart place to start. The DISA seal can be a source of leaks, that may not show up in smoke tests, so that is another reasonable place to look. My point is, I would double check all of these things, before trying a more extreme solution like changing a lifter. Most of these things will only cost you time, so you don't have much to lose by trying them, before spending money on a lifter change. I would also be a little uncomfortable changing just one lifter on a high milage car, but that may just be my own pickiness. As far as the Vanos being the problem, you can change the seals, but you may still develop a rattle, which means an anti-rattle kit. All of this will cost $120 from Bessian. But for another $130, you can get a complete Vanos from Dr Vanos. It not only replaces the seals with a much better set, they also replace thrust bearings and other items. In fact, they tighten all of the tolerances in the Vanos unit, it is a complete rebuild, and in fact, it is better than the original factory unit (not just my opinion, Google it). For the price difference, it is a far superior solution for fixing Vanos issues, if you decide that the Vanos is the issue. It is a good idea to change this out anyway, on a high milage car. But, that may be something to address another time. I would stay away from a $12 eBay set of seals for this, just my opinion, FWIW. But I would work through the items I mentioned, as well as what jfoj said, before any lifter change. If you think about it, why would the lifter only act up on initial start, and suddenly work when you shut off and restart? It should still act up until the engine completely warmed up. It sounds like your mechanic is just guessing, and making an expensive guess at that. Try some of these free checks before spending that money.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:54 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
The DISA O-ring leak seals up quickly due the quick expansion of the plastic parts and is a very small, but devastating vacuum leak for cold starts. Although I recommend the DISA O-ring be replaced, some cars will need a NEW DISA as well, but the O-ring will help any DISA valve regardless of overall condition.

Also the other thing that happens is with carbon build up on the intake valves, it acts as a sponge and absorbs fuel during the initial start up. Just like a sponge, once is it wet, it will not absorb more fuel. So with a partial vacuum leak and carbon build up you will have a lean misfire for a short period during cold start up. Once the car has run for a short period, or is turned of and restated withing the first few minutes the fuel cut off is bypassed. Once the fuel cut off is bypassed or reset, then the engine will no longer misfire like the engine is going to fall out of the car!

So the DISA vacuum leak usually impacts the center cylinders more so than than cylinder 1 & 6. If you remove the DISA for inspection and do not replace the O-ring you have just made your problems worse!

Another possibility is the vacuum control hose (both rubber and hard plastic hose) that connects to the SAP check valve. This SAP check valve vacuum hose only has vacuum for the first 90 seconds during cold engine start up. A smoke test will not pick up this SAP vacuum hose as there is an electric solenoid under the intake that is closed except for during cold start up for the first 90 seconds. The way to check this hose with a smoke test is to disconnect the vacuum hose as the SAP check valve and "backfeed" this hose. The other very easy test is to disconnect the vacuum line at the SAP check value and just put a hand vacuum pump on the connection and see if you can hold a vacuum in this short section of line, if not, you have a problem with this 3 foot section. You could also try to block down this line with your mouth, you may need an extension on the end so you can get your mouth on this hose.

Everyone needs to leave the expensive/hard part replacement for last. You are wasting you time, money and effort replacing expensive hard parts if you have not addressed the rubber parts. The rubber on these car is all failing as it is at least 6+ years old and is hard, dried out and oil soak.

Quit screwing around, re-read my link, spend not more than $50 and get your current problems solved. But keep in mind, you will probably need to do more maintenance and replace other rubber parts to really head off your problems.

You really need to replace all the rubber and plastic parts connecting to the intake and crankcase on these cars. This includes the entire CCV system, intake elbow, ICV hoses, SAP vacuum lines and pressure hose, dip stick o-rings, vacuum caps and probably the entire DISA to really keep your car in top notch and basically vacuum leak problem free for another 6+ years. If you are smart you will do this one time and your cold start headache will be gone for a long time. You can do all of this for less than the cost of MAF, spark plugs, coils, O2 sensors and all the typical hard parts people replace first!

Also do not forget what your cooling system is made of, plastic and rubber, same rules apply here but this is a totally different discussion!
so i made a mistake when i removed my disa valve when i was cleaning my icv and tb ? since i didnt replace my O ring? all the symptoms make me belive so
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:12 PM   #29
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It sounds strongly like your dme! they have a high failure rate sometimes re programing it fixes the issue, sometimes it wipes them out completly and your stuck ordering a new one I belive the dme control unit or ecu is a ms45-1 is that correct?
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:04 AM   #30
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sfixed,

Your post is exactly what is wrong with this forum. You come in here in your 1st post and state the DME programming is corrupt or needs replacement.

This is like saying your car broke down on the side of the road, time to buy a new one! If you have the money and want to do that, then great.

But why not resolve the obvious problems with these cars first. The youngest of these cars is about 6 years old, some are over 12 years old. The rubber hoses and silicon gaskets have served their purpose in these cars and it is time to start replacing them if you expect any kind of reliability. High under hood temps along with hot oil and gasoline vapor deteriorates and compresses gaskets, O-rings and rubber hoses.

If and when my 2006 gets a few more years on it, I plan on wholesale replacing the CCV system, lower intake boot and the SAP vacuum line. The DISA was already replace by the dealer at 45k miles!! But I will replace the O-ring on the DISA when I have to remove it to perform the above mentioned work!

So for you and everyone else who is convinced the problem is far more major, enjoy spending your money and when you finally come to terms that money has not solved your problems, follow my advice and we shall see who's car runs better!

A little bit of rubber goes a long way after 6-8 years!
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:23 AM   #31
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Don't forget to check your fuel pump !!!!!!
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:27 AM   #32
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No comment.
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:15 PM   #33
sfixed
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Thumbs down

No your wrong, the problem with these forums is people like jfog who read a couple of magazines and dont have any hands on experience and think they no it all. I have been working on just bmws for over 14 yrs and it seems like this person is wasting his money swaping parts like mad.The car needs this and so on I agree with your statement about gaskets and the ccv system but if you read his post carfully its calling a missfire cyl #5 and sometimes #2 his done a vacuum leak test swapped plus, coils and injectors so that would tell me KNOWING these dme have a high faluire rate (probablly not written in the magazines that u read) that it is a possibility a ccv system failure and or leaking valve cover WILL NOT cause a miss in just #5 and sometimes #2 and whats with the no comment after somebuddie says to check fuel pressure I am simply trying to help and using my experiance as a bmw mechanic thats why I am on this forum and not to play joe cool like u r so stick that in your intake and suck it!
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:29 PM   #34
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Then....lifters?....????.......p304 and p306 always.....or DME???
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:34 PM   #35
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Thanks...
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:25 AM   #36
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Lifters have sorted my cylinder 5 misfire.
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:53 AM   #37
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And clean hidraulic circuit ?..is posible?......seafoam?... thanks...
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:58 AM   #38
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And noise in the lifters?. i dont have any strong noise here...
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:22 AM   #39
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Verificando SAP system
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:29 PM   #40
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Verificando SAP system
More????

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