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Motorsports & Track Forum
From Auto-X to Trackday to Racing and Professional Motorsports this is the place to discuss making BMWs fast

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Old 02-26-2012, 02:23 PM   #21
MasterC17
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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
IIRC, the guy said (I think) it floods the engine and something bad happens (can't remember what).

The S54 is a dry sump? Didn't know that.
Well, it is a Semi-Dry Sump system. In a true dry sump there is an external resevoir and hoses leading to it with the pumps in the reservoir. What BMW did with the S54 is take the dry sump and instead of locating it externally, they developed it into the bottom of the engine. In a wet-sump the oil is "picked-up". This is why in high-speed corners Non-M's have oil starvation because the oil goes to one side and the pump can't pick up oil, only air. In a dry sump the oil drain down into the pump and consequentely you don't get oil starvation unless if of course you flipped the car . So basically they took a dry sump and mounted it to the bottom of the engine instead of mounting it externally. The advantages a true dry sump would give you would be more oil in the system and better cooling and no "frothing" of the oil.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:36 PM   #22
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Thanks for all the help guys. I'll be doing the bleeding myself.

Looks like I'll end up getting the PFC RH665 to security. I doubt I'll push it that hard the first time out on HPDE, but I like the "better safe than sorry" technique.

Will OEM pads be decent enough to get me through my first time? I realize that dedicated pads will probably be considered if I catch the HPDE bug (which I know I will). But as of now, funds aren't there for pads (rather get good pads than cheap out).

I never had lifter-tick on last year for auto-x, and I was about 3/4 high in-between the levels.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:46 PM   #23
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Thanks for all the help guys. I'll be doing the bleeding myself.

Looks like I'll end up getting the PFC RH665 to security. I doubt I'll push it that hard the first time out on HPDE, but I like the "better safe than sorry" technique.

Will OEM pads be decent enough to get me through my first time? I realize that dedicated pads will probably be considered if I catch the HPDE bug (which I know I will). But as of now, funds aren't there for pads (rather get good pads than cheap out).

I never had lifter-tick on last year for auto-x, and I was about 3/4 high in-between the levels.
If you are going to use the stock pads I wouldn't even bother with the PFC RH665, ATE Type 200 would be fine. However, I suggest getting PFC "Z-Rated" Pads front and rear and getting the PFC Brake Fluid for FREE!

http://store.bimmerworld.com/introdu...uid-p1791.aspx

It will cost you around $200 as opposed to $55, but it is worth it. The Z-Rated will be great to start on and better than the stock pads and now it's only $150 more for the pads with the free fluid. Hurry though, you only have until the end of the month!
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:50 PM   #24
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ducting is a must it really helps alot... I just get very annoyed that alot of street cars run 19"+ rims just to fit a bbk because they "need" them and at the track they are hardly seen here sorry dont know why i felt i had to vent here
True. One thing I didn't bring up is the fact that my car is supercharged so I can generate a considerable amount of speed pretty quickly. That is the one HUGE tradeoff with a BBK...wheel clearance issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterC17 View Post
Well, it is a Semi-Dry Sump system. In a true dry sump there is an external resevoir and hoses leading to it with the pumps in the reservoir. What BMW did with the S54 is take the dry sump and instead of locating it externally, they developed it into the bottom of the engine. In a wet-sump the oil is "picked-up". This is why in high-speed corners Non-M's have oil starvation because the oil goes to one side and the pump can't pick up oil, only air. In a dry sump the oil drain down into the pump and consequentely you don't get oil starvation unless if of course you flipped the car . So basically they took a dry sump and mounted it to the bottom of the engine instead of mounting it externally. The advantages a true dry sump would give you would be more oil in the system and better cooling and no "frothing" of the oil.
Awesome! I learned something today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus09 View Post
Thanks for all the help guys. I'll be doing the bleeding myself.

Looks like I'll end up getting the PFC RH665 to security. I doubt I'll push it that hard the first time out on HPDE, but I like the "better safe than sorry" technique.

Will OEM pads be decent enough to get me through my first time? I realize that dedicated pads will probably be considered if I catch the HPDE bug (which I know I will). But as of now, funds aren't there for pads (rather get good pads than cheap out).

I never had lifter-tick on last year for auto-x, and I was about 3/4 high in-between the levels.
While the OEM pads are pretty good, it depends on the track. Some, you can get away with it. Others, may not. At a minimum, I would make sure you have fresh pads. I would at least bring an extra set of pads to get you home just in case. Ideally, I'd just pony up the money for something that has a higher temp rating. Brakes are not something you want to skimp on.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:33 PM   #25
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True. One thing I didn't bring up is the fact that my car is supercharged so I can generate a considerable amount of speed pretty quickly. That is the one HUGE tradeoff with a BBK...wheel clearance issues.



Awesome! I learned something today



While the OEM pads are pretty good, it depends on the track. Some, you can get away with it. Others, may not. At a minimum, I would make sure you have fresh pads. I would at least bring an extra set of pads to get you home just in case. Ideally, I'd just pony up the money for something that has a higher temp rating. Brakes are not something you want to skimp on.
Roger that.

Those pads are cheaper than I thought. Looks like I may pull the trigger on those. The Z rated pads good for auto-x too? If I can find a happy medium for pads, that'll be awesome. Ill keep OEM pads for DD, then swap the pads come events

My first HPDE will be at Mid-Ohio. The part I'm concerned about brakes fading or fluid boiling would be going into China Beach. Watching E46 M's, they are topping out around 130-140 down that straight.

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Old 02-26-2012, 07:05 PM   #26
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ducting is a must it really helps alot... I just get very annoyed that alot of street cars run 19"+ rims just to fit a bbk because they "need" them and at the track they are hardly seen here sorry dont know why i felt i had to vent here
Depends. I race on stock sized brakes w/ PFC01s with just the OEM ducting (if you want to call it that). No issues w/ brake fade. Car is around 3100#s with me in it. Obviously weight plays a factor too, but I think for a DE, proper pads will go a long way.

Skip the OEM pads and get PFC06s. You'll have a much better time.
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:15 PM   #27
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Roger that.

Those pads are cheaper than I thought. Looks like I may pull the trigger on those. The Z rated pads good for auto-x too? If I can find a happy medium for pads, that'll be awesome. Ill keep OEM pads for DD, then swap the pads come events

My first HPDE will be at Mid-Ohio. The part I'm concerned about brakes fading or fluid boiling would be going into China Beach. Watching E46 M's, they are topping out around 130-140 down that straight.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Bimmer App
Actually, the Z-Rated are probably the best compromise DD/Auto-X/Track pad you can get. They warm up a lot quicker than the PFC-01 or 06 (good for auto-x) but are also good for light track work and still work for DD.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:06 PM   #28
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Actually, the Z-Rated are probably the best compromise DD/Auto-X/Track pad you can get. They warm up a lot quicker than the PFC-01 or 06 (good for auto-x) but are also good for light track work and still work for DD.
Okay, so swapping pads probably is overkill then.

Looks like I'll be placing an order.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:38 PM   #29
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Okay, so swapping pads probably is overkill then.

Looks like I'll be placing an order.
Well, if you were going with PFC-01 or PFC-06 I would swap pads. However, the Z-Rated should serve the DD, Auto-X, and HPDE's purposes well. Let's be honest - swapping pads every time before an Auto-X or HPDE would be a pain in the butt.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:03 PM   #30
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Well, if you were going with PFC-01 or PFC-06 I would swap pads. However, the Z-Rated should serve the DD, Auto-X, and HPDE's purposes well. Let's be honest - swapping pads every time before an Auto-X or HPDE would be a pain in the butt.
Valid point. I gotta swap tires anyways, I figured throwing the extra 1-1.5 hours into the equation wasn't going to kill me. But that would be a pain after awhile
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:45 AM   #31
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Might want to check the StopTech Street Performance pads. Supposed to be OK for light track use...they might be cheaper than the Z rated pads.

If you are going to do HPDEs on a regular basis (3-4+ a year) I would swap in some higher temp pads. It will save you money in the long run. For example, the PF01s will likely last you at least 3-4 weekends whereas you might go through an entire set of street pads in one weekend (very possible). I HATE missing sessions...so you have to factor that in if you cook a set of pads. How many sessions will you lose because you went home early with cooked brakes? I also HATE dicking with my car between sessions if I don't have to. There is lots to do. Check out other cars, talk to people, watch the action on the track, eat, get fuel, etc...

If you are just testing the waters to see if HPDEs are right for you, I'd stay with a FRESH set of decent brake pads...like the Z-rated.

Last edited by bigjae1976; 02-27-2012 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:57 AM   #32
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I've been using Elf HTX brake fluid for several years from Performance Oil Store (www.PerformanceOilStore.com). The Elf is affordable and works very well. We run in conjunction Carbotech (www.CTBrakes.com) brake pads. Never any issues.

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Old 02-27-2012, 10:26 AM   #33
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Might want to check the StopTech Street Performance pads. Supposed to be OK for light track use...they might be cheaper than the Z rated pads.

If you are going to do HPDEs on a regular basis (3-4+ a year) I would swap in some higher temp pads. It will save you money in the long run. For example, the PF01s will likely last you at least 3-4 weekends whereas you might go through an entire set of street pads in one weekend (very possible). I HATE missing sessions...so you have to factor that in if you cook a set of pads. How many sessions will you lose because you went home early with cooked brakes? I also HATE dicking with my car between sessions if I don't have to. There is lots to do. Check out other cars, talk to people, watch the action on the track, eat, get fuel, etc...

If you are just testing the waters to see if HPDEs are right for you, I'd stay with a FRESH set of decent brake pads...like the Z-rated.
Yea, I'm going to look around and get some sort of pad. I might just get a track rated pad, and only keep it for the track while using OEMs for auto-x.

As of now, I'm planning on doing 2 HPDEs this year. I'm going to start doing a volunteer program with NASA to where I can get free track days. So at least 1 HPDE there, and I might run at octoberfest as well
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:19 AM   #34
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