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Old 04-01-2012, 11:27 PM   #241
Five_seveN
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Easy, they are wrong. Even Trayvons dad said it wasn't him screaming
your hard-headedness at times is kinda pathetic. sorry, but if someone is an EXPERT at something, im inclined to agree with them. that is, unless you have some better justification or know something they dont about voice analysis
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:29 PM   #242
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Again... You're focusing on the degree and extent of his injuries to try and justify or not justify self defense.

Using deadly force is not MORE legal if you have worse injuries or any LESS justified if your injuries are of a lesser degree.

I know you don't grasp this fact. Justified deadly force can be just that, justified even if your attacker doesn't almost kill you.

If Zimmerman was being beaten up and unable to escape or defend himself or end the attack, he is justified in using force to stop it.

The only way I can see Zimmerman at fault here is if he attacked FIRST or if he drew his weapon FIRST without a threat being present.
I don't believe that to be be the case.

Who was the FIRST aggressor and who/when continued the escalation?
This isn't a black and white (lol) open and shut case necessarily
I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about the lack of evidence to corroborate Zimmerman's claims that he feared for his life.

Obviously Zimmerman was the first aggressor. There's really no doubt about that fact. Did Trayvon have a duty to retreat?
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:31 PM   #243
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I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about the lack of evidence to corroborate Zimmerman's claims that he feared for his life.

Obviously Zimmerman was the first aggressor. There's really no doubt about that fact. Did Trayvon have a duty to retreat?
You're seriously delusional. How can you simultaneously be the worst poster on two BMW message boards?
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:35 PM   #244
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I'm not talking about the law.
That's PAINFULLY obvious

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I'm talking about the lack of evidence to corroborate Zimmerman's claims that he feared for his life.
INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY
Is that REALLY that hard to understand? Have you immigrated to this country in the past week? Are you that clueless to how our system works?
This is not an attack, it's an honest question. 4th graders should know this.

People don't have to PROVE innocence.

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Obviously Zimmerman was the first aggressor. There's really no doubt about that fact.
Obviously? Prove to me that he was an aggressor.
Prove to me BEYOND a reasonable doubt.
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I agree with JonJon.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:44 PM   #245
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your hard-headedness at times is kinda pathetic. sorry, but if someone is an EXPERT at something, im inclined to agree with them. that is, unless you have some better justification or know something they dont about voice analysis
"experts" lol... Any reputable expert in the field has not come forward in public out of professionalism and integrity to the process. Anyone that does is a quack and looking to boost their sales or get 15 mins of fame.

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The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.
"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen said, stressing that he could not confirm the voice as Martin's because he didn't have a sample of the teenager's voice to compare.
48%. WOW! lol... He compared cut up and edited dubs of screaming and compared it to Zimmermans voice talking normal. No matter how tough you are, men will scream like little children when scared. Did he get a dub of Zimmerman screaming? Did he get a dub of Trayons voice to compare? No and No

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I agree with JonJon.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:45 PM   #246
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your hard-headedness at times is kinda pathetic. sorry, but if someone is an EXPERT at something, im inclined to agree with them. that is, unless you have some better justification or know something they dont about voice analysis
The only thing those supposed "experts" determined was that there was a 50% chance that it was/wasn't his voice on the tape i.e. jacksh<sp>i<sp>t. You would be amazed at the different pitches the human voice can make.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:46 PM   #247
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That's PAINFULLY obvious

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY
Is that REALLY that hard to understand? Have you immigrated to this country in the past week? Are you that clueless to how our system works?
This is not an attack, it's an honest question. 4th graders should know this.

People don't have to PROVE innocence.

Obviously? Prove to me that he was an aggressor.
Prove to me BEYOND a reasonable doubt.
Have you listened to the 911 calls that Zimmerman made? He instigated the conflict by stalking an innocent kid.

Why wasn't Trayvon innocent until proven guilty?

That's a rhetorical question. He was murdered before he had a chance to go to court.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:48 PM   #248
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Have you listened to the 911 calls that Zimmerman made? He instigated the conflict by stalking an innocent kid.

Why wasn't Trayvon innocent until proven guilty?

That's a rhetorical question. He was murdered before he had a chance to go to court.
The white guilt is strong with this one
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:50 PM   #249
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That's another thing - it took the EMT's 8 minutes to treat Zimmerman.

8 minutes. That's not much time to treat a guy who thought someone was beating him to death.
So you admit he was injured? How long does a life threatening assault take to treat? I just need to know the next time I'm getting my skull bashed in, to call the EMTs ahead of time and ask how long it will take them to fix various injuries, so I can inform my attacker which ones I'd like.


BTW, if you attack me with a knife, try to stab me, miss, and I shoot you, since I have no injuries (or maybe you do get a small cut on me) or minimal injuries, I'm guilty of murder now? I don't understand how you can't see how flawed your logic is.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:51 PM   #250
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The only thing those supposed "experts" determined was that there was a 50% chance that it was/wasn't his voice on the tape i.e. jacksh<sp>i<sp>t. You would be amazed at the different pitches the human voice can make.
if you read closer, it says that chances of it being zimmerman would have been closer to the 90% range. even more, another expert that doesnt even rely on the same technology agreed with the first one. but this is the internet and two professionals that do this for a living are wrong. you guys are right
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:54 PM   #251
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PS: Following someone, challenging their presence on private property or otherwise confronting them is NOT aggression or escalation
There is no evidence that Zimmerman followed anyone once the dispatcher told him not to. As a matter of fact, if you listen to the tape, you can hear that immediately after the dispatcher tells him to stop following him, the panting and windnoise both stop. Since there is no evidence of him following Martin AFTER he was told (remember, the dispatcher TOLD Zimmerman "where is he now" so Zimmerman went to see) it basically never happened, no matter how much Sharpton and Lair wish it did.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:56 PM   #252
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your hard-headedness at times is kinda pathetic. sorry, but if someone is an EXPERT at something, im inclined to agree with them. that is, unless you have some better justification or know something they dont about voice analysis
Voice analysis is not used/necessary when you have eye witnesses and the "victims" father claiming that it was Zimmerman screaming.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:57 PM   #253
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I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about the lack of evidence to corroborate Zimmerman's claims that he feared for his life.

Obviously Zimmerman was the first aggressor. There's really no doubt about that fact. Did Trayvon have a duty to retreat?
Depends. Right now it clearly looks like he doubled back and beat Zimmerman's brains in. He was free and clear and ran away from Zimmerman....then came back.

Obviously huh? Do you know what the word "aggressor" means?
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:57 PM   #254
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So you admit he was injured? How long does a life threatening assault take to treat? I just need to know the next time I'm getting my skull bashed in, to call the EMTs ahead of time and ask how long it will take them to fix various injuries, so I can inform my attacker which ones I'd like.


BTW, if you attack me with a knife, try to stab me, miss, and I shoot you, since I have no injuries (or maybe you do get a small cut on me) or minimal injuries, I'm guilty of murder now? I don't understand how you can't see how flawed your logic is.
If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle.

I want to meet those EMT's. They completely healed a bashed-in skull & broken nose in 8 minutes. They're miracle workers.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:58 PM   #255
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Voice analysis is not used/necessary when you have eye witnesses and the "victims" father claiming that it was Zimmerman screaming.
there are so many "eye witnesses" with conflicting stories. the woman that watched it out of her kitchen window says something different than the guy behind the door that doesnt want to be identified. what theyre doing is the best evidence youre gonna get here
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:58 PM   #256
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The white guilt is strong with this one
No guilt here. I didn't murder an innocent black kid.
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If you ever want to see what I mean by the arbitrariness of categories, check the situation of polarized politics. The next time a Martian visits earth, try to explain to him to why those who favor allowing capital punishment also oppose the elimination of a fetus in the mother's womb.
Congratulations.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:59 PM   #257
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Have you listened to the 911 calls that Zimmerman made? He instigated the conflict by stalking an innocent kid.

Why wasn't Trayvon innocent until proven guilty?

That's a rhetorical question. He was murdered before he had a chance to go to court.
Vocabulary fail. Stalking implies the other party is unaware of your presence, thus, no aggression.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:00 AM   #258
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if you read closer, it says that chances of it being zimmerman would have been closer to the 90% range. even more, another expert that doesnt even rely on the same technology agreed with the first one. but this is the internet and two professionals that do this for a living are wrong. you guys are right
We are not right. The eye witnesses who claimed it was Zimmerman screaming are right, since neither we, nor the experts were there.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:00 AM   #259
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Vocabulary fail. Stalking implies the other party is unaware of your presence, thus, no aggression.
Logic fail.

How long did Zimmerman follow him before Trayvon noticed him?

Aggression.
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If you ever want to see what I mean by the arbitrariness of categories, check the situation of polarized politics. The next time a Martian visits earth, try to explain to him to why those who favor allowing capital punishment also oppose the elimination of a fetus in the mother's womb.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:02 AM   #260
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If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle.

I want to meet those EMT's. They completely healed a bashed-in skull & broken nose in 8 minutes. They're miracle workers.
But you are admitting that Zimmerman DID indeed have injuries then, regardless of how major minor? Let's say it wasn't a broken nose, but a bloodied nose, and not "lacerations" but a small scratch on the back of the head....does that not mean Martin hit Zimmerman in the face, and then had him on his back?

In court, there is your doubt....but I know I know...we don't care about court, they are silly institutions.
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