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Old 04-02-2012, 01:51 PM   #21
Dare32
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Secondary air monitor not getting ready

Hello all,

I have secondary air and evap not getting ready, and I know that air pump works, for approx 90 sec after start up. I have replaced check valve as suggested by dealer and connecting hoses. Still no luck. I have vacuum and air pump working but secondary air would not get ready. What else affects this system? If someone could tell me what to check and where, I would appreciate it.
Also I had 2 O2 sensors replaced, PCV and all connecting hoses too.
I am playing with this for 5 months now. HELP
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:30 PM   #22
Dare32
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enyone???
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:09 AM   #23
dslboomer
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Originally Posted by Dare32 View Post
Hello all,

I have secondary air and evap not getting ready, and I know that air pump works, for approx 90 sec after start up. I have replaced check valve as suggested by dealer and connecting hoses. Still no luck. I have vacuum and air pump working but secondary air would not get ready. What else affects this system? If someone could tell me what to check and where, I would appreciate it.
Also I had 2 O2 sensors replaced, PCV and all connecting hoses too.
I am playing with this for 5 months now. HELP
Do you have a code sanner?
Check if you have any pending codes related to secondary airy codes?
It is very odd that the secondary air system is running but not ready without any codes being set.
In the morning let it idle for 2 minutes without touching anything.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:25 AM   #24
Dare32
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Thanks for reply. There is no pending codes. I never had any codes related to the secondary air or evap system. Everythig on it is stock, so no modifications of any kind. Recently I found tread that mentions ecu reflash and after that worked. I got another original ecu but it was pulled from another car and therefore has diffrrent imobilizer and key code so I can not start the car with it. Right now I am in process of figuring out how to make that work. If anyone out there has some hints for me please, please let me know.

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Old 04-15-2012, 01:40 AM   #25
dslboomer
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Originally Posted by Dare32 View Post
Thanks for reply. There is no pending codes. I never had any codes related to the secondary air or evap system. Everythig on it is stock, so no modifications of any kind. Recently I found tread that mentions ecu reflash and after that worked. I got another original ecu but it was pulled from another car and therefore has diffrrent imobilizer and key code so I can not start the car with it. Right now I am in process of figuring out how to make that work. If anyone out there has some hints for me please, please let me know.

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Pull the vacuum hose in the control valve and see if that sets a code to check if ECU is monitoring the secondary air system.
What state do you live?
Some state may bot require all emission systems to be ready to pass the test.
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:22 AM   #26
Dare32
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That is good idea. I'll do that when I get home tonight, car is in a garage,cold, so it will be ready for testing. I live in MA and only one not ready monitor is allowed in this state. I have 2, secondary air and evap. I even had to bring my car to the rmv center because i had more than 3 attempts to inspect it for sticker. They tried everything they could to get it ready, but that was unsuccessfull.

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Old 04-15-2012, 10:36 AM   #27
sunnyjay
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Where are you located? I know in CA we are allow one not set monitor to pass smog. I remember my SAP monitor was the last monitor to set and it required more then 40+ cold starts before it set. The evap will set with daily driving
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:36 PM   #28
dslboomer
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Originally Posted by Dare32 View Post
That is good idea. I'll do that when I get home tonight, car is in a garage,cold, so it will be ready for testing. I live in MA and only one not ready monitor is allowed in this state. I have 2, secondary air and evap. I even had to bring my car to the rmv center because i had more than 3 attempts to inspect it for sticker. They tried everything they could to get it ready, but that was unsuccessfull.

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I found an official E46 requirement for EVAP test.
You need to follow these requirements by teeth.
Fuel level should be 1/4 to 3/4.
Engine should not be started for 5 hours before test cycle.
Car need to be driven more than 20 minutes.

So drive to work taking at least 20 mins or longer, then let is idle for 3 mintues to complete the test. Do same when arriving home. Note that EVAP leak is tested every second time the conditions are met.

BMW official guide for
SIEMENS MS 43.0 ENGINE CONTROL SYSTEM
Model: E46 equipped with M54 Engine
Production Dates: M54 B30: from 6/00, M54 B25: from 9/00

LEAK DIAGNOSIS TEST PRECONDITIONS:
The ECM only initiates a leak diagnosis test every second time the criteria are met. The criteria
is as follows:
Engine OFF with ignition switched OFF.
Engine Control Module still in active state or what is known as "follow up mode" (Main
Relay energized, control module and DME components online for extended period after
key off).
Prior to Engine/Ignition switch OFF condition, vehicle must have been driven for a minimum
of 20 minutes.
Prior to minimum 20 minute drive, the vehicle must have been OFF for a minimum of 5
hours.
Fuel Tank Capacity must be between 15 and 85% (safe approximation between 1/4 -
3/4 of a tank).
Ambient Air Temperature between -7 deg C & 35 degC (20 F & 95 F )
Altitude < 2500m (8,202 feet).
Battery Voltage between 11.5 and 14.5 Volts
When these criteria are satisfied every second time, the ECM will start the Fuel System Leak
Diagnosis Test. The test will typically be carried out once a day i.e. once after driving to
work in the morning, when driving home in the evening, the criteria are once again met but
the test is not initiated. The following morning, the test will run again.

Last edited by dslboomer; 04-15-2012 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:05 AM   #29
Dare32
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Thanks again for great info.s

First about Secondary air. I did as you suggested, pulled vacuum hose of the check valve and I didn't get any codes, not even pending. One thing that I have to make sure is that gas level is above 1/4, it is kind of right on the line. Today I will fill it to the mid point and in the morning do it again.

Regarding Evap: because I played with this issue for few months now I made sure that gas level is between 1/4 and 3/4 of a tank, that voltage is above 11.5 (at least by the OBD reader), that car is cool and air temperature and coolant temperature are within couple of degrees.

I was not aware of altitude, but I am close to the sea level, so that should not be the issue the issue.(Although, I don't see the value for barometric pressure using my OBD)
Only part that I don't understand is " Engine Control Module still in active state or what is known as "follow up mode" (Main
Relay energized, control module and DME components online for extended period after
key off)." How do I make sure that this is right mode, is it possible to check somehow?


Engine OFF with ignition switched OFF.
Engine Control Module still in active state or what is known as "follow up mode" (Main
Relay energized, control module and DME components online for extended period after
key off).
Prior to Engine/Ignition switch OFF condition, vehicle must have been driven for a minimum
of 20 minutes.

Prior to minimum 20 minute drive, the vehicle must have been OFF for a minimum of 5
hours.

Fuel Tank Capacity must be between 15 and 85% (safe approximation between 1/4 -
3/4 of a tank).

Ambient Air Temperature between -7 deg C & 35 degC (20 F & 95 F )
Altitude < 2500m (8,202 feet).
Battery Voltage between 11.5 and 14.5 Volts
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:58 PM   #30
dslboomer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare32 View Post
Only part that I don't understand is " Engine Control Module still in active state or what is known as "follow up mode" (Main
Relay energized, control module and DME components online for extended period after
key off)." How do I make sure that this is right mode, is it possible to check somehow?
I gave up on that one too. It sounded like German to me.
Most important thing is to let it idle 3 minutes (actually about 130 sconds) after driving 20 minutes or more to complete the test. And rememebr you need to meet the criteria consecutively.

And that's what I thought about the secondary air. It was just turned on, but it's performance was not monitored.

Last edited by dslboomer; 04-16-2012 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:13 PM   #31
Dare32
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I have done it many times before, start and wait 5 min, drive for 1/2 hour, stop and wait another 5 min idling. I am loosing confidence and even if I do it 100 more times, I have feeling nothing will happen. Will keep trying.
Secondary air is somehow measured as I see, using one of the phone apps with Bluetooth adapter, "Secondary air enabled" or similar, and after about 90 seconds air pump stops and changes the message to "Secondary air off". I am thinking by calculating values on O2 sensors it could probably figure out when is extra air pushed in exhaust. I forgot to mention that I measured vacuum using T piece and connecting vacuum meter, shows exactly same as on working car.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:18 AM   #32
dslboomer
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I got clarification from this thread:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...=915309&page=2

It does say evap testing is done with engine off and key off.
Silly me

So, DME state that is talking about is, I guess, stand by status.
Is your battery voltage good? You may want to check with voltmeter to be sure.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:42 AM   #33
Dare32
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I made sure that gas level is little above 1/2 mark, first thing in the morning, etc. I pulled vacuum line from the check valve the other day, started it up this morning and the app I am using still shows that secondary air is on!!! I believe ECU is not sensing vent in the exhaust as I originally believed, but rather electrical load of the Secondary air pump. Also, no code popped up with vacuum line disconnected. I will try spraying brake cleaner around intake, but right now it looks like ECU is not monitoring this system.
Also I checked voltage before I started the car, key in position 2, 11.62V. I can recharge battery, but sounds like 11.5 is sufficient for this test to run.
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:02 PM   #34
dslboomer
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Originally Posted by Dare32 View Post
I made sure that gas level is little above 1/2 mark, first thing in the morning, etc. I pulled vacuum line from the check valve the other day, started it up this morning and the app I am using still shows that secondary air is on!!! I believe ECU is not sensing vent in the exhaust as I originally believed, but rather electrical load of the Secondary air pump. Also, no code popped up with vacuum line disconnected. I will try spraying brake cleaner around intake, but right now it looks like ECU is not monitoring this system.
Also I checked voltage before I started the car, key in position 2, 11.62V. I can recharge battery, but sounds like 11.5 is sufficient for this test to run.
0.12 Volt headroom (11.62-11.5) is not enough at all.
Did you measure with a multimeter or using hidden OBC function?
Because engine is not running, there is a good chance the voltage will drop below 11.5 when the leak detection pump is on. And the test may be stopped in the middle. I can not measure voltage drop of my car when the pump is on because it has full tank. I may meaure it later for reference.
By the way, my car's voltage with one year old OEM battery is 12.6V with OBC menu.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:41 PM   #35
chlenz62
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Secondary Air System Monitor not setting!

I'm also trying to clear my Secondary Air Monitor. I'm not understanding what the ECM is looking for to give me credit for a secondary air system "cold start". My secondary air pump runs for about 60 seconds then shuts off. My post catalytic converter Bank 1 and Bank 2 sensors show a slight drop in voltage during this 60 second period. A drop from 0.43 volts to 0.40 volts. Not sure if this is enough to "tell" the ECM the secondary pump actually ran. I just don't know what the ECM is looking for to validate the secondary air system is operating. I plan on testing the vacuum line to ensure it is calling for the check valve to open and I plan on testing the check valve using a vacuum pump. But if the O2 sensors are not providing a valid signal to the ECM to show secondary air system is operating, then I may need to change O2 sensors.

I have no fault codes and I have completed two FTP/Drive Cycles using cruise control on the freeway. I've also read that the Secondary Air System is tested during cold start. I don't believe the city or freeway driving piece of the FTP (Federal Test Plan) is relevant in my situation.

Appreciate all the help anyone can throw my way!
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:23 AM   #36
chlenz62
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I'm hoping to receive some clarification on my questions regarding post catalytic O2 sensors and what the ECM is looking for when the secondary air pump is running. Hoping someone has the technical background with that kind of detail. I'm really trying to understand this system so I can make intelligent decisions on how to resolve it. This is my son's car and it's already past due on smog check. It passed the emissions with flying colors but failed on the engine monitors. So if I could understand how the ECM validates secondary air system performance, I would be able to troubleshoot this to the failed component, if there is one.
Anyone?
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:03 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chlenz62 View Post
So if I could understand how the ECM validates secondary air system performance, I would be able to troubleshoot this to the failed component, if there is one.
Anyone?
This link pages 33-34 has some general information:
http://www.beisansystems.com/misc/SE...ROL_SYSTEM.pdf

More can be found here with some digging:
http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r.../e46/index.htm


Secondary air system


Secondary air system monitor

Automatic monitoring is carried out to ensure that the secondary air system is functioning correctly. For this purpose, operation of the secondary air injection and of the shut-off and air switch-over valves must be monitored each time they are activated. The secondary air injection serves as an exhaust gas treatment during the engine warm-up phase. For this purpose, fresh air is injected directly into the exhaust manifold to ensure the catalytic converter heats up at a faster rate.
Depending on the exhaust requirement, the air volume blown into the secondary air system is measured by means of the secondary hot-film air-mass sensor.
Shortly after the engine is started, the secondary air pump is activated by the SLP relay. The time until it is switched on is dependent on the following fringe conditions:
- Engine temperature
- Load signal
- Engine speed
Monitoring principle

The oxygen sensor voltage is monitored in the engine control unit during activation of the secondary air pump. During problem-free operation of the secondary air system, the oxygen sensor voltage is primarily in the lean range.
At regular intervals (every 20 ms), the oxygen sensor voltage is registered within the control unit. Each measurement in which the oxygen sensor voltage is registered as being in the lean range is counted by an internal counter. If this count exceeds a predefined threshold, the system is recognised as being fully operational. If this threshold is not reached the engine control unit assumes there is a fault in the secondary air system. An entry is made in the fault code memory.
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:05 PM   #38
chlenz62
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Thank you for the great information. I purchased a pre and a post catalytic converter O2 sensor last night. I will install them and see if my voltages are in a better range. Here are the O2 voltages from my sensors during startup this morning. I'm still looking for a range of "goodness". I have this information but I don't know whether or not the voltages are good. Again, I'm not experiencing any fault codes.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2002 BMW 325i - Chris - April 2012.pdf (84.8 KB, 181 views)
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:03 AM   #39
Dare32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dslboomer View Post
0.12 Volt headroom (11.62-11.5) is not enough at all.
Did you measure with a multimeter or using hidden OBC function?
Because engine is not running, there is a good chance the voltage will drop below 11.5 when the leak detection pump is on. And the test may be stopped in the middle. I can not measure voltage drop of my car when the pump is on because it has full tank. I may meaure it later for reference.
By the way, my car's voltage with one year old OEM battery is 12.6V with OBC menu.
I had many other issues in the meantime, but here is what I did so far. I measured voltage using multimeter, and as I promised I charged the battery over night and voltage in the morning was almost 13V, with no load. That did not help in setting secondary monitor to ready state. I know that secondary air should set in about 1 minute after the pump stops, which is 3-4 minutes top (I tested this on another working car). Then the hell broke loose. Car started to run like a tractor, I could feel misfire but there are no codes, so I decided to replace spark plugs as first thing that came to my mind.Even though I purchased them new, I think I put same if not worse plugs in, than the ones that were in the car. Anyways, while I was under the hood I sad let me check that runner valve, everyone is talking about. I found that to be faulty and immediately ordered new one. I had that replaced and now car runs even worse. It runs fine for couple of minutes and then comes up with check engine light and 2 codes P1347,P1349, then starts running like a tractor again. (certain injectors are shut-off I suppose). I triple checked my work and there is no way to swap the wires on plugs as they are short and can't be swapped. All plugs are tightened and I even tried swapping coils, no change. Here comes best part, as I was playing with app on the phone, measuring O2 sensors in different conditions, came to a stop in my driveway and after about 5 minutes of idling I noticed steam coming under the hood. Now I have cracked expansion tank, pissing on hot engine. Car did not show increase in temperature at all I turned it off and let it cool. I feel like I am writing novels. Sorry for long texts but I feel it is important to say every detail. I ordered new expansion tank, new belt, 2 oxygen sensors, oil filter housing seal, as I have oil leak there etc. Now important stuff, I went to the dealer and told them about my car being in their shop and their suggestion to replace check valve and PCV valve (oil separator), and I told them all this is done and I still have same issue. They suggested disconnecting battery, and connecting them together for one hour. (NOT THE BATTERY TERMINALS) the cables on the car plus and minus to put together for one hour. He said this will reset your ECU. If I still have issues he said, he will reflash it for me free of charge as car was there about 2 months ago. Also he said don't even bother with evap, let's concentrate on secondary air. If all fails, which he can't believe, then the only thing would be to replace ECU. I am still waiting for parts so there will be no responses in a few days from me, then I will post my progress. Thanks for being patient.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:12 AM   #40
Dare32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanneba View Post
This link pages 33-34 has some general information:
http://www.beisansystems.com/misc/SE...ROL_SYSTEM.pdf

More can be found here with some digging:
http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r.../e46/index.htm


Secondary air system


Secondary air system monitor

Automatic monitoring is carried out to ensure that the secondary air system is functioning correctly. For this purpose, operation of the secondary air injection and of the shut-off and air switch-over valves must be monitored each time they are activated. The secondary air injection serves as an exhaust gas treatment during the engine warm-up phase. For this purpose, fresh air is injected directly into the exhaust manifold to ensure the catalytic converter heats up at a faster rate.
Depending on the exhaust requirement, the air volume blown into the secondary air system is measured by means of the secondary hot-film air-mass sensor.
Shortly after the engine is started, the secondary air pump is activated by the SLP relay. The time until it is switched on is dependent on the following fringe conditions:
- Engine temperature
- Load signal
- Engine speed
Monitoring principle

The oxygen sensor voltage is monitored in the engine control unit during activation of the secondary air pump. During problem-free operation of the secondary air system, the oxygen sensor voltage is primarily in the lean range.
At regular intervals (every 20 ms), the oxygen sensor voltage is registered within the control unit. Each measurement in which the oxygen sensor voltage is registered as being in the lean range is counted by an internal counter. If this count exceeds a predefined threshold, the system is recognised as being fully operational. If this threshold is not reached the engine control unit assumes there is a fault in the secondary air system. An entry is made in the fault code memory.
I am very interested in your findings, so please post back if that fixed your problem. Thank you.
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