Lets Talk Motor Mounts

Originally Posted by 68

no i haven't measured the mounts.. i will change them if necessary. i always thought bad motor mounts make noise and vibration.. (we will see)

It depends how bad the mount is.. The OEM mounts (like the majority of OEM bushings) are wear items and should be replaced ~100K miles assuming normal operating conditions, this mileage could be shorter/longer but that's a general rule of thumb. Even if you don't have any abnormal noise/vibrations the mounts could still be shifting under hard acceleration/braking which can lead to other parts wearing prematurely. There are certain parts that I agree "if it ain't broke don't change it" but I would highly recommend changing the mounts if they are at that high of a mileage. I guarantee at that mileage your mounts are squished down a good amount and once you change them you will definitely see improved feel/response when driving.

Originally Posted by Rob43

I run the BimmerWorld Performance/Track Engine Mounts in both my race car & street 330Ci. They fit & work great, I perceive NO new noise or vibration (but you may) with these stiffer mounts. Forum sponsor BW makes a great product, I'd recommend these to anyone looking for an upgraded motor mount.


http://store.bimmerworld.com/bimmerw...unts-p930.aspx


Good luck,
Rob.

I've been running these same mounts in my car for several years now and have been extremely happy with them. The car does "jump" quite a bit for a split second at startup until all the cylinders have started firing and they do transmit an ever so slight increase in engine growl into the cabin but otherwise they're hard to differentiate from stock in terms of noise and vibration - although you are more likely to notice if the car is running a bit rough as you'll start to feel some extra vibration in the cabin. There's just enough noise and vibration over stock to add a little character to the car without offending your passengers but they really do keep the motor fixed firmly in place relative to the stock non-M mounts (the M mounts are only slightly stiffer than the non-M and the BW mounts are significantly stiffer than both). For anyone looking for a civilized upgrade over the stock mounts, I'd highly recommend these.

I should also mention that they don't seem to compress down as much as the stock fluid filled mounts so they cause the motor to sit a few mm higher than stock. For most this won't be an issue but since my ESS TS already makes the fuel rail sit ever so slightly higher than stock, I can't fit the stock plastic fuel rail cover under my current strut tower bar (so I ditched the fuel rail cover).

I also gave a set of poly mounts a try for a few weeks and the vibration at idle with the A/C running was horrible plus there was a very nasty buzzing within the cabin when accelerating around the 2000-2200 rpm range. While acceptable for a track car, poly and solid mounts aren't really a good choice for a street car that sees much use.

Originally Posted by TxZHP04

I've been running these same mounts in my car for several years now and have been extremely happy with them. The car does "jump" quite a bit for a split second at startup until all the cylinders have started firing and they do transmit an ever so slight increase in engine growl into the cabin but otherwise they're hard to differentiate from stock in terms of noise and vibration - although you are more likely to notice if the car is running a bit rough as you'll start to feel some extra vibration in the cabin. There's just enough noise and vibration over stock to add a little character to the car without offending your passengers but they really do keep the motor fixed firmly in place relative to the stock non-M mounts (the M mounts are only slightly stiffer than the non-M and the BW mounts are significantly stiffer than both). For anyone looking for a civilized upgrade over the stock mounts, I'd highly recommend these.

I should also mention that they don't seem to compress down as much as the stock fluid filled mounts so they cause the motor to sit a few mm higher than stock. For most this won't be an issue but since my ESS TS already makes the fuel rail sit ever so slightly higher than stock, I can't fit the stock plastic fuel rail cover under my current strut tower bar (so I ditched the fuel rail cover).

I also gave a set of poly mounts a try for a few weeks and the vibration at idle with the A/C running was horrible plus there was a very nasty buzzing within the cabin when accelerating around the 2000-2200 rpm range. While acceptable for a track car, poly and solid mounts aren't really a good choice for a street car that sees much use.

This is the best endorsement for the BW mounts so far. Thanks for a very comprehensive review. I know it will be most helpful when some of us decide ultimately what to do.

Poly just sounds more and more not the way to go for motor mounts.

For the time being I am staying stock. Stock engine mounts and stock durometer tranny mounts with those funky limiting cups. BW would be my first option for a more rigid mount.

I thought I would add to this thread. I have been talking via PM with a member here about my transmission mounts. I am bringing this up because for a proper discussion IMO, we should be addressing BOTH sets of mounts at once...motor and tranny.

I emailed UUC about my Gen 1 questionable tranny mounts. I asked them if they would send me N/C their Gen 2 mounts in black for the transmission.

I am also considering Rogue Engineering heavy duty street mounts for M3 transmission. I dont know why they say dont bother for an SMG. Does anyone know why? I have SMG and it needs same mounts as 6 speed AFAIK.

http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/TM/TM.html

End result..maybe:
Motor Mounts: Bimmer world
Transmission Mounts: RE

What do you all think?

Originally Posted by Bdave

I thought I would add to this thread. I have been talking via PM with a member here about my transmission mounts. I am bringing this up because for a proper discussion IMO, we should be addressing BOTH sets of mounts at once...motor and tranny.

I emailed UUC about my Gen 1 questionable tranny mounts. I asked them if they would send me N/C their Gen 2 mounts in black for the transmission.

I am also considering Rogue Engineering heavy duty street mounts for M3 transmission. I dont know why they say dont bother for an SMG. Does anyone know why? I have SMG and it needs same mounts as 6 speed AFAIK.

http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/TM/TM.html

End result..maybe:
Motor Mounts: Bimmer world
Transmission Mounts: RE

What do you all think?

I already was set on the RE tranny mounts. possibly the Bimmerworld motor mounts or OEM? was that post earlier persuasive to both of us?

Originally Posted by nnacpil

I already was set on the RE tranny mounts. possibly the Bimmerworld motor mounts or OEM? was that post earlier persuasive to both of us?

I guess. I will say that I want to thank all participating members. You all helped immensely in my choices. This is forum magic at its best. I love it when we can have a civil thread and friendly exchange of information. This thread was a great help for me and hopefully others.
Special thanks to InDiGlOM3 who took time out to help me behind the scenes. Well done, sir.

Originally Posted by Bdave

I thought I would add to this thread. I have been talking via PM with a member here about my transmission mounts. I am bringing this up because for a proper discussion IMO, we should be addressing BOTH sets of mounts at once...motor and tranny.

I emailed UUC about my Gen 1 questionable tranny mounts. I asked them if they would send me N/C their Gen 2 mounts in black for the transmission.

I am also considering Rogue Engineering heavy duty street mounts for M3 transmission. I dont know why they say dont bother for an SMG. Does anyone know why? I have SMG and it needs same mounts as 6 speed AFAIK.

http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/TM/TM.html

End result..maybe:
Motor Mounts: Bimmer world
Transmission Mounts: RE

What do you all think?

RE says dont bother for SMG in the Idea your installing them just to get rid of the chance you might misshift in the 6speed. you can still get them and they will fit for the smg like you said. and since your upping the tightness in front its good idea to make the tranny side the same.

sub'd

Originally Posted by InDiGlOM3

RE says dont bother for SMG in the Idea your installing them just to get rid of the chance you might misshift in the 6speed. you can still get them and they will fit for the smg like you said. and since your upping the tightness in front its good idea to make the tranny side the same.

Ah. OK. Yes, I agree. If/when i get the Bimmerworld mounts , the RE tranny mounts would certainly be a nice match I believe.

I've got the BimmerWorld motor mounts paired with the older UUC black neoprene transmission mounts with enforcer cups (UUC has since switched the black street mounts to a soft poly). This setup has been great.

Originally Posted by TxZHP04

I've got the BimmerWorld motor mounts paired with the older UUC black neoprene transmission mounts with enforcer cups (UUC has since switched the black street mounts to a soft poly). This setup has been great.

Thanks. But what HP level? That info is important for these discussion I feel.

Originally Posted by Bdave

Thanks. But what HP level? That info is important for these discussion I feel.

Actually torque would be more relevant and the ESS TS2+ is just shy of 300 ft-lb at the rear wheels, so in the same ball park as a HPF stg 1 on 91 octane. If you're running a 1000 hp setup (600-700+ ft-lb), you're probably going to need solid mounts but I'm not sure at what output level anything less than solid starts to give out.

Originally Posted by TxZHP04

Actually torque would be more relevant and the ESS TS2+ is just shy of 300 ft-lb at the rear wheels, so in the same ball park as a HPF stg 1 on 91 octane. If you're running a 1000 hp setup (600-700+ ft-lb), you're probably going to need solid mounts but I'm not sure at what output level anything less than solid starts to give out.

My bad. Yes, torque. IDK at what level solid motor mounts are needed either.
Chris recommends the HPF solid mounts which is the safest way to go really in say a Stage 3 HPF. I still would like to try the bimmerworld mounts first. I am willing to take a chance on them. I dont think they would have catastrophic failure. Its something that could be monitored?

In most cases I like guaranteed safe or overkill. Except when it comes to NVH. I want to try the least aggressive item that will still work. If the BW mounts lasted a year, it might be worth getting them. I forgot to ask Rob 43 using those mounts what his torque output was. In any event, the mounts look like a great place to start.

The Bimmerworld engine mounts are currently on backorder, doesn't say when they will have stock. Edit: called and asked, they could not give me a date, but said should be in soon...
http://store.bimmerworld.com/bimmerw...unts-p930.aspx
What type of material do these mounts utilize? polyurethane?

Are AKG's polyurethane motor and tranny mounts a no go then since they're polyurethane?
motor: (#MTS368MM) "for street or performance use". Polyurethane 80A (straight bolt-through).
tranny: "Group N Transimission mounts - Polyurethane 80A" (#GNTM 3036)

Seems like the BW engine mounts, along with the RE tranny mounts are the best choice for some added rigidity, while attempting to keep NVH etc. low, and staying away from polyurethane.
This is what i'd like to get, but the damn BW's are on backorder.


What about FCAB's?
AKG #FCN4609 (polyurethane 90A) "recommended for race street or high performance use". thoughts?

What about RTAB's?
AKG #RTAB369 (polyurethane 90A with aluminum sleeves) "recommended for street or performance use". thoughts?


ps, while doing my 4.10s & subframe reinforcement install, pretty sure i'll be going with:
for subframe: AKG #SF469 (polyurethane 90A/Black)
for diff: AKG #DM463 (polyurethane 75D/Red)

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by bluewater87

http://store.bimmerworld.com/bimmerw...unts-p930.aspx
What type of material do these mounts utilize? polyurethane?

No, they are solid rubber - not fluid filled like the stock mounts. IIRC, they are also made of a higher durometer rubber than the stock mounts but I can't find confirmation of this right at the moment.

Originally Posted by bluewater87

The Bimmerworld engine mounts are currently on backorder, doesn't say when they will have stock. Edit: called and asked, they could not give me a date, but said should be in soon...
http://store.bimmerworld.com/bimmerw...unts-p930.aspx
What type of material do these mounts utilize? polyurethane?

Are AKG's polyurethane motor and tranny mounts a no go then since they're polyurethane?
motor: (#MTS368MM) "for street or performance use". Polyurethane 80A (straight bolt-through).
tranny: "Group N Transimission mounts - Polyurethane 80A" (#GNTM 3036)

Seems like the BW engine mounts, along with the RE tranny mounts are the best choice for some added rigidity, while attempting to keep NVH etc. low, and staying away from polyurethane.
This is what i'd like to get, but the damn BW's are on backorder.


What about FCAB's?
AKG #FCN4609 (polyurethane 90A) "recommended for race street or high performance use". thoughts?

What about RTAB's?
AKG #RTAB369 (polyurethane 90A with aluminum sleeves) "recommended for street or performance use". thoughts?


ps, while doing my 4.10s & subframe reinforcement install, pretty sure i'll be going with:
for subframe: AKG #SF469 (polyurethane 90A/Black)
for diff: AKG #DM463 (polyurethane 75D/Red)

Thoughts?

My techs recommended AKG black for sub frame. We went solid on the diff which may be a mistake. Some how we missed the poly diff mounts. are they fairly new. How do you insert the mounts. Arent the EOM ones in the diff sealed in the rear plate? The only replacepable mount is the forward one. Maybe the rear diff plate gets machined?

Back to RTABS: I was recommended AKG RED as strong enough for Stage3. But who knows? I always liked the sleeve concept but was told "no", install the "reds". Dont take my techs word for everything. See if there are other opinions.

I have good old Power Flex FCABS. But AKG recently has gotten better press over all for their poly mounts. Safe to say go AKG for FCABS. Red is probably just fine.

I would love to hear more about the differential and adding poly. I remember coming up with no options a year ago when i looked.

we pretty well have beat the motor mounts to death. Might as well talk about other mounts. Its good to have them all work together. I know I was told not to mix solid and other types of mounts on the diff.

Originally Posted by Bdave

Are you talking about the mounts in the link in the post above yours?
http://store.bimmerworld.com/bimmerw...unts-p930.aspx

They are not solid.

yes they are solid rubber

Originally Posted by TxZHP04

No, they are solid rubber - not fluid filled like the stock mounts. IIRC, they are also made of a higher durometer rubber than the stock mounts but I can't find confirmation of this right at the moment.

you are right,

Originally Posted by Bdave

My techs recommended AKG black for sub frame. We went solid on the diff which may be a mistake. Some how we missed the poly diff mounts. are they fairly new. How do you insert the mounts. Arent the EOM ones in the diff sealed in the rear plate? The only replacepable mount is the forward one. Maybe the rear diff plate gets machined?

Back to RTABS: I was recommended AKG RED as strong enough for Stage3. But who knows? I always liked the sleeve concept but was told "no", install the "reds". Dont take my techs word for everything. See if there are other opinions.

I have good old Power Flex FCABS. But AKG recently has gotten better press over all for their poly mounts. Safe to say go AKG for FCABS. Red is probably just fine.

I would love to hear more about the differential and adding poly. I remember coming up with no options a year ago when i looked.

we pretty well have beat the motor mounts to death. Might as well talk about other mounts. Its good to have them all work together. I know I was told not to mix solid and other types of mounts on the diff.

solid diff to subframe bushings will increase the strain on the subframe to chassis mount points and bushings so it's good you've welded in the reinforcement kit.

Pretty sure the oem diff bushings are removable, and are able to have new bushings installed.
Would be nice if someone can confirm this 100%.

As for the fcab and rtab, I'll most likely go with the black instead of red (part numbers I posted), as I am only naturally aspirated, and do not want the harshness of full solid/for race use only.

oems are the best but replace em soon, I kinda broke mine and didnt know it and about 2000 miles later the motor shifted a little bit making the fan blades hit the shroud (0 blades remaining attached to the fan clutch), nothing left of the shroud, punctured radiator, dented hood and other parts. all cuz I was redlining while drifting, I pulled into the gas station to get gas and was like WTF is all that, look under the car as if some1 had a bottle of water opened pooring it is how bad the stream was, rushed home at 140+ mph on a 50 mph road and saw my fan blades, pieces of shroud in the entrance of the parking lot next to the gas station. GOT HOME WAS SMOKING BUT NO DAMAGE OTHER THAN THE $400 just for the cooling system and 2 months later replace manifolds and say WTF both engine mounts are broken thank god im doing the swap or I would of gone through that **** all over again

I'm surprised no one has brought up the recently released Vibra-Technics engine mounts. They are offered in two variants, road and motorsport.