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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 04-23-2012, 11:27 AM   #61
tailo
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The average cop does not, honestly the only people that are technically allowed to see a stamp is the IRS or the ATF since the tax stamp itself is a form of tax return, its confidential material...

Technically the law states it has to be avaliable, nothing says you have to have the stamp or copy on your person, you can always retrieve it or a copy at the ATF's request. Local LEO's have no right to view said material.

That said, if you refure to show a stamp you may be arrested and spend some time in a cell until they figure out your legal. You will be released but its a hassle.

Long story short, you dont have to show any body but the ATF but its wise to do so unless you feel like being a total dick and refuse to awnser any questions.

People ask about my class III license all the time at the range....I usually say what license?

Last edited by tailo; 04-23-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:23 PM   #62
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To sort of expand on what Tailo said, the NFA stamp is a tax stamp. It's tax information, but regulated by the BATFE. Many local LEOs are not very familiar with the NFA process. You have no requirement to produce the tax stamp without a subpoena. How you wish to proceed is based on your own personal philosophy. As Tailo pointed out, refusing to cooperate may be your right, but there are side-effects relating to you being inconvenienced. If a LEO does have the initiative, they can detain you in accordance with their state laws to obtain a subpoena to force you to produce the documentation. Or, if they can articulate suspicion that the gun may not be legal, they can impound it until there is proof. This can happen from a number of ways. If I see a guy with an SBR in his car that is obviously a custom build, and I inspect the rifle and do not see the manufacturer of the SBR engraved on the receiver, that is a clue that the rifle may not be legal. However, if I see it engraved, then it would be more justifiable for me to identify the guy, photograph the weapon, take measurements, and then send the guy on his way. I could then submit the information for a subpoena and obtain the information either from him, or directly from the BATFE through our regional branch office. On the other hand, what I do is carry a small 3x5 laminated copy of my Form 1/Form 4 with stamp, with the stamp serial number visible, on my weapon. Every SBR I own has a laminated mini copy of my NFA paperwork in the grip of the weapon. I can quickly pull out the paperwork and show someone it's legit. If they had further questions, they would have difficulty further detaining me or impounding my weapon at that time because the presence of a copy of the paperwork would likely be enough to eliminate PC or RAS for a detention. Now, inside of your state is on you. However, if I'm in Wisconsin or Nebraska at a shooting course, I'd much rather be done and over with the interaction in 20 minutes than to have my rifle taken for two weeks and then have to drive 6 hours back down to another state to go pick it up.

Again, it's all dependent upon LEO knowledge, which is unfortunate in some respects. I know that people like JonJon will tell you to hold fast and not give up any information, and you would not be wrong in this. This is a legitimate reaction, provided you have confirmation of the ability to do so from your legal counsel/lawyer. Understand that this method does make it a bit more necessary to have the phone number of a good NFA-educated attorney at your disposal in case you have concerns or issues arise.

Obviously, IANAL; and being in LE, I will have a different perspective. It's up to you to decide which option you would choose.

With all that being said, I've never had an issue with any LE. My problem has always been with moron know-it-alls at public ranges who think they are God's gift to firearms knowledge, and try to accuse you of breaking the law because they're too ignorant of gun laws. I have had to "educate" several people at ranges about the legality of NFA subjects like SBRs, and had to explain to them that it's none of their damn business how I conduct my own personal firearms affairs. Sometimes I think gun owners can be our own worst enemies.


Keep in mind that I'm not suggesting what any of you should do one way or the other. I'm just explaining some options.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:32 PM   #63
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Reed, is there anyway you can show us a picture of one of your SBR's with your 3x5 card and how you keep everything when you are out and about? I know there might be some information too personal on the card so I understand if you would rather not share, but I am sure there are some people interested (myself included) in the best way to keep this info handy.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:54 PM   #64
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I can, but not until tomorrow. I'm about to leave for work.

If you take a look at my 11.5", you can see that there is a TangoDown stubby VFG with a screw-on bottom. It's hollow inside. I also have the TangoDown Battle Grip, which has a compartment inside. I scanned my Form 1 onto my computer as soon as I got it back from the BATFE. I printed out a mini copy that is about 3x5" (or whatever the actual dimensions are for a scaled-down 8.5x11 paper scaled down to ~20-25% size). Then laminated it, folded it up, and stuck in the grip.

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Old 04-23-2012, 02:56 PM   #65
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I can, but not until tomorrow. I'm about to leave for work.

If you take a look at my 11.5", you can see that there is a TangoDown stubby VFG with a screw-on bottom. It's hollow inside. I also have the TangoDown Battle Grip, which has a compartment inside. I scanned my Form 1 onto my computer as soon as I got it back from the BATFE. I printed out a mini copy that is about 3x5" (or whatever the actual dimensions are for a scaled-down 8.5x11 paper scaled down to ~20-25% size). Then laminated it, folded it up, and stuck in the grip.

Ahh...brilliant, thanks for the clarification!
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:58 PM   #66
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Worst public range horror story? Picking up my uncles car from the front of the range after finding out he committed suicide there. :-(
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:49 PM   #67
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Had a funny story from my trip yesterday to the infamous LA Gun club. For some reason, there's always a healthy female population at the range. The absurdity is that they're always very dressed up, I'm talking heels, dresses, earrings, etc. This one group of girls shooting with a few guys was a combo of terrified of the noise/recoil, and the best part is that they had hot brass falling down low-cut blouses. This went on for about 30 minutes before they quit. My friend and I were alternating turns on the line, and just enjoying the sh*t-show that was occurring a few lanes down.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:55 PM   #68
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Cool info tailo and reedo
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:02 PM   #69
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Reed, is there anyway you can show us a picture of one of your SBR's with your 3x5 card and how you keep everything when you are out and about? I know there might be some information too personal on the card so I understand if you would rather not share, but I am sure there are some people interested (myself included) in the best way to keep this info handy.
Heres mine, would show more but class III stuff is fairly new to me and my machine guns and silencers are all in limbo.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:47 PM   #70
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Heres mine, would show more but class III stuff is fairly new to me and my machine guns and silencers are all in limbo.

Thanks tailo, I love the paint job on your AR.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:04 AM   #71
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My indoor range is in Colorado, great for the winter. Not a public range, but a private range with dues. Granted, being a member for many years, my range is awesome. The staff and gunsmith is great. We have strict safety rules and I never have any problems shooting. I dump 400 rounds every week at this range. Yes...sometimes people next to me get spooked when I shoot my Desert Eagle .50 AE, and some hate my Glock 20C 10mm. They normally get used to it. Sometimes the guys shooting a 22LR next to me get a little mad...but they know there is no reason to complain. This is also a Class 3 range. Personally, being a 20 year retired military guy...I like it if something catches my ear...I want to check it out. I have let several people who wondered what my DE 50 was about and let them shoot it on my dime. Yes, you will always get a grump next to you, and sometimes I feel bad when a young kid is next to me with his dad teaching him how to shoot a 22LR.....I have a few 22LR myself...do I feel guilty sometimes shooting some of my stuff next to a kid..sometimes, but not really. I pay the same price they do. IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE NOISE OF GUNS.....GET OUT OF THE RANGE AND GET A BOW.

I also use a outdoor range for my long guns. Those are great for kids and people who hate the noise.

Indoor range....I am immune to anything under a 45.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:18 AM   #72
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I always double up on ear protection, so loud alone doesn't bother me, I've stood next to people shooting shotguns and other ARs at an indoor range and it wasn't as bad as this.

The guy was actually shooting a DE as well.......didn't bother me one bit (except when he tried to clear his many FTFs and inadvertently pointed the muzzle sideways....the gun seemed to misfire EVERY other round)

I'm going to look into joining a private range as well after this

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Old 04-24-2012, 11:03 AM   #73
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I've actually never had a major problem with others distracting me. Once the gun goes off a few times, even if it has a brake, im good. The only thing that does distract me (other than like a .50 bmg/.338 lapua) is the brass ejecting onto me. That can distract/piss me off.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:36 PM   #74
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I'm not bothered by muzzle blast. Once I start shooting, I start to tune out a lot of the outside stimuli if it's not important.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:57 PM   #75
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So a friend and I went to a local indoor range. Wanted to take a few handguns out to get in some practice. We stroll in, and it was honestly one of the worst shooting experiences I've ever had.

-Gun display jockey (50 yr old) is hovering over the handgun case explaining what an awesome shot he is. He's blathering about how worthless polymer guns are and why I should only shoot Sigs and 1911's. I ask for a M&P with manual safety, he saunters up and tells me how shitty the gun is. I ignore his presence completely, thank the employee and walk away. This same moron starts making analogies about Escalades and M3's when looking at hunting rifles and sniper rifles
-Once we hit the range downstairs, there are these 2 mexican gang-banger looking kids. They're rapid firing like crazy with a Taurus and Bersa. I was about to just pack up and leave, but they finish their ammo and pack up.
-Other stall next to me is a dude & his gf - they've got their target at 5 yards and it's so low to the ground I can see his gf skipping rounds off the ground.
-Range was poorly ventilated, i ended up blowing up black snot
-Range was holding a class next to us too. This guy has 3 students learning about shooting pistols. For some reason, he has them shooting buckshot down the range in their stall....stupid. Said retard's 3 students have ZERO inkling as to the proper grip/stance/technique to shooting a handgun. He continues screaming range commands to which these guys don't even understand! They're looking around, confused, and he continues screaming the same term over and over again. I can't take this - quickly finish up my last few rounds and gtfo.

What kind of range stories have you guys had? I'm seriously contemplating joining a private range because of this.
hey
where is this shooting range so i can avoid it? (if it's in LA area)
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:10 PM   #76
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hey
where is this shooting range so i can avoid it? (if it's in LA area)
Back in CO before I moved out

Similar stories can be seen in LA gun club sometimes though.
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