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General E46 Forum
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:56 AM   #21
SeanC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfbmwfan View Post
Anyways, next on the list is a fuel pressure test.
Don't let the idle fuel pressure reading fool you. Mine tested at exactly 52psi at idle, and the pump failed couple of weeks later.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:02 PM   #22
jdstrickland
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I forgot the wire harness to the fuel injector.

If injector 5 is swapped with another known good injector from another cylinder, and the problem remains on 5, then one of the usual suspects has to be the wiring to the injector.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:15 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by rfbmwfan View Post
I do work in a shop, however I don't put used parts on my car. I did mention that I used aftermarket cam position sensors (no trouble the last 2 years since installed though).

Coil and injector have been swapped, all plugs look good, compression test resulted in 120 across all cylinders.

The car runs perfectly fine with no misses until warmed up to normal operating temp.

I've combed through wiring to make sure there are no tears or fraying of wires, cleaned contacts, checked fuses and relays. Checked for vacuum leaks with a smoker.

e46mango, I have the bosch plugs installed, it was an oem part number I got for them. Had them installed since last year when I did my valve cover gasket.

Not sure what happened to my original post, was on my phone.. obviously I erased the whole original post and replaced it with another lol. oops.

Anyways, next on the list is a fuel pressure test.
All of those things except swapping the coil and injector feed into global misfire symptoms, or at least multiple cylinder misfires.

I'm trying to help separate the chaff from the wheat here.

Fuel pressure low can certainly give misfire problems, but logic dictates the problems will be global, not unique to one specific cylinder. The same goes for the Cam Position Sensor, fuses, relays, etc.

Used parts are not a problem if you know they are not defective. I frequently will save something that I took off of my car to use for a spare someday, especially when the new part and the old part give the same symptom. I have a used starter on the shelf now that was replaced, and I discovered after installing the new one that the old one was merely dirty or had a missing screw -- I forget what the problem was, but I was able to fix it so it lives on the shelf waiting for a chance to be used again. I was only meaning that if you are putting in used parts of unknown integrity, then you might be chasing your tail as a result.

It is impossible from this side of the interweb to tell what is wrong with your car, but I get the feeling that you are looking at things that should have a global impact but you repeatedly report a problem that is unique to a single cylinder. It seems to me that you need a diagnostic approach that is also unique to the same cylinder. You cannot do anything to move the problem, so the issue has to be something like a frayed wire or some manner of failure of the injector firing circuit, or an internal problem with the motor.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:50 PM   #24
rfbmwfan
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Originally Posted by jdstrickland View Post
All of those things except swapping the coil and injector feed into global misfire symptoms, or at least multiple cylinder misfires.

I'm trying to help separate the chaff from the wheat here.

Fuel pressure low can certainly give misfire problems, but logic dictates the problems will be global, not unique to one specific cylinder. The same goes for the Cam Position Sensor, fuses, relays, etc.

Used parts are not a problem if you know they are not defective. I frequently will save something that I took off of my car to use for a spare someday, especially when the new part and the old part give the same symptom. I have a used starter on the shelf now that was replaced, and I discovered after installing the new one that the old one was merely dirty or had a missing screw -- I forget what the problem was, but I was able to fix it so it lives on the shelf waiting for a chance to be used again. I was only meaning that if you are putting in used parts of unknown integrity, then you might be chasing your tail as a result.

It is impossible from this side of the interweb to tell what is wrong with your car, but I get the feeling that you are looking at things that should have a global impact but you repeatedly report a problem that is unique to a single cylinder. It seems to me that you need a diagnostic approach that is also unique to the same cylinder. You cannot do anything to move the problem, so the issue has to be something like a frayed wire or some manner of failure of the injector firing circuit, or an internal problem with the motor.
I understand it's impossible to tell what's wrong with the car on the internet. I'm merely looking for ideas here, because everything I've tried so far isn't coming up with anything. I'm grasping for straws here..

Like I said before, I've combed over the wiring harnesses to the DME, with no findings to write home about. Everything looks ok, even cleaned contacts.

When I connect the BMW software to the car, I get DME code 1F: Activation ignition cyl 5 (which no one anywhere seems to know, nor can I find anything on google) along with the p0305.

I don't know if this code means the DME is not activating the coil because it detects some other problem, or if the DME itself has taken a sh!t on me.

We have a genisys scanner at work that was of no help either.

I've even searched in websites like ALLDATA and Identifix, and Identifix keeps suggesting the pcv system (done about 1000k miles ago, no problems until last friday night), and charging system (tested at 14v w/o load, 13.8 w/load)
battery tested at 740cca but is rated at 850.

I figured since these cars are finicky with voltage, I might as well check that out.

I've done compression tests in all cylinders, switched spark plugs, coils, injectors, used BMW DIS to shut off injector 5 to see if there was a difference.. and it's getting a signal.
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:02 PM   #25
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I believe the diagnostics are telling you there is no trigger for the #5 coil. Surely P0305 is telling you the cylinder is weak/no trigger, there is no question there. I do not know what the other code means because it is not in OBD II format, but from what you said about the code you have, the diagnostics are telling you that the trigger is not there. This tells me that the control unit (DME) has failed for some reason. The good news is, you don't have burnt valves or worn rings on the affected cylinder.

You are on the right track when you look at stuff that affects a single cylinder, and you stray from the right track when you start looking at cam sensors and fuel filters and such. These items should give a global problem, not a unique problem, when they fail.

I think the diagnostics are telling you _exactly_ what the problem is, and I think from all that you have said, it's the DME has no output on the pin that goes to 5. Do you know which pin you need to look at? I have a Bentley, and can look it up (I think). The final test you can do is to check that the continuity of the wire is not compromised -- you need both continuity from one end to the other, but you also need there to be no short to ground.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:33 PM   #26
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Ok, so.. last night I left the battery charger on by accident. However, this morning on the drive to work, I kept waiting for the car to start missing, and nothing.

So then today I drove it around some more.. battery is staying around 12.5V. Alternator output is 14v without load, 13.8 with load. I don't recall.. isn't charge supposed to stay around 14.5v?

I think this is a voltage issue. The problem kept coming and going. If I was in stop and go traffic, the car would slowly start missing. If I was getting all the green lights and in the higher revs, the car would return to normal.

Seems kind of strange though..

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Old 05-30-2012, 08:44 PM   #27
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I have a similar problem...codes bank 1 too lean, bank 2 too lean, cylinder 3 and 4 misfire. I replaced fuel filter, plugs on 3 & 4 plus changed ignition coil on 3&4. Still runs rough at idle/ shakes at idle. Also a weird tapping noise that has no pattern to it. Need help.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:08 PM   #28
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Vertigo,

See the first link in my signature below. Just a bit of light reading for you in your spare time!

Suggest you read the DISA section and look closely at the CCV lower oil return hose as well. There may be other problems, but these are core issues that usually need attention.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:48 PM   #29
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Failed disa

Turns out it was the DISA. The butterfly was floating freely. The only thing holding it in place was the top metal pin. I removed the butterfly and top metal pin. Put it back in/ordered new part. Will let you know once I put the new part in if my CEL goes off. Thanks. I ll post photos of the damaged DISA.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:47 PM   #30
jdstrickland
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I'd like to know how that would manifest itself as a single cylilnder misfire.

It surely is a problem, I just wonder if it is THIS problem. But, what do I know? Nobody makes my yacht payments for fixing a car.
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:28 PM   #31
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What everyone needs to keep in mind, just because you have a trouble code for a single cylinder misfire does not always mean you have a problem with only the cylinder that triggers the code.

Depending on how quickly you read the code and possibly clear it, you may only see the single cylinder error, but if you do not clear the codes and continue to drive, you may pick up additional cylinder misfire codes.

Also many times a single cylinder misfire could be an indicator of a cylinder with parameters that are further out of spec than others, or more susceptible to a misfire due to intake mixture, spark plug condition, low compression, excessive carbon build up, injector spray pattern and volume and other issues.

Sometimes you get lucky and there is a "hard" failure that is easy to find, however, many times you are unlucky and you are searching for a needle in a haystack for a specific solution.

For example, a DISA with a blown vacuum actuator, will cause a stream of unmetered air to be introduced somewhere into the rear 3 cylinder area of the intake. Many times cylinder #4 may be mostly impacted, however, cylinder #5 could be impacted as well.

Additionally there are a number of vacuum connections on the rear underside of the intake that can impact the rear cylinders. I do believe there is one port near the #5 intake port?

If you look at the MOST common causes of misfires and fuel mixture problems, you will see the overwhelming majority of the problems are due to unmetered air leaks/vacuum leaks, usually due to dry rotted and damaged hoses and/or gaskets that have hardened in a compressed state and fail to expand back to full size once an engine cools down.

Yes there are problems with coils, spark plugs, injectors, valve train, cylinder compression, camshaft lobes, wiring, connectors and so on, but usually these "hard" part failures are not as intermittent and are usually much easier to positively identify.

But the point I continue to drive home is sort out the simple, cheap and obvious problems first before pulling cylinder heads or replacing DME/ECU and so forth.

Rubber parts are reliable on average for about 7-8 years before they deteriorate quickly. All these cars are getting just to the age of the witching hour and it is time for preventive maintenance.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:27 PM   #32
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I should have the part tomorrow ... I ll let u know if that was the problem
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:58 PM   #33
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ID:	454838 I installed a new one today... No more problems
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:36 PM   #34
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So much for the "concentrate on the single cylinder" theory. It just goes to show, you can not make any assumptions with cars, and with e46's in particular. When I replaced my fuel filter last month, I had no idea that it would fix the idle issues I have had since I bought the car, but it did! I know people who have replaced every part imaginable to fix their idle issues, with no luck. And I go and fix mine without even trying.
As for your car, I would guess that the computer has a certain threshold for the number of misfires it will ignore, and that threshold is 5. It then reports a misfire in cylinder 5.
You are not the first person that has mentioned a cylinder 5 misfire problem. As I said in one of my earlier posts, I was trying to help a guy several months ago with the same error. I went back and looked, and he had not tried changing his DISA. He has dropped off from the forum, but I sent him a PM, and told him about your solution.
I'm glad you got it resolved, without spending too much money.
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:53 PM   #35
Vertigo563
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I actually had misfires in # 3&4... Banks 1 & 2 too lean. I change fuel filter , plugs in 3/4, coils 3/4, still had problems...that's when I checked the DISA...now she's running smooth.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:35 PM   #36
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Vertigo,

Hopefully my info was helpful in getting your issue sorted?

Thanks for posting the update as it may help others with similar problems.

As I have always said, use the trouble codes as clues and not absolute indicators all the time. Many times things are not always as they appear!
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:21 PM   #37
houseofdavid
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misfire

hi all
im having same issues with my bmw but on cylinder 1, mechanic said he suspects a worn oil contro ring, or sticking valve due to carbon build up....
what is the remedy for that,?
he checked coils ,injectors they are ok .:
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:12 PM   #38
jfoj
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Houseofdavid,

See you made a number of posts regarding this problem.

There is much more info needed to help out.

1. Does problem happen on start up? Cold/Hot?
2. Does problem happen at idle?
3. Does probem happen under load?
4. When does CEL come on? Idle/Cruise?
5. Do you get any freeze frame data?
6. What is/are the actual codes?
7. Is the car stock?
8. Do you have access to INPA and other software tools to read the cylinder variations/fuel trims?
9. What work has been done/parts have been replaced?
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:25 AM   #39
alinLink
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Bump for updates!
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:12 AM   #40
alinLink
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Bump again, I am having similar issues, cylinder #2 gets shut down.

Mine started to show signs of fatigue about a year ago.
When racing the car, if I kept the revs high enough so the rev limiter had to cut in, I would hear a buzzing noise coming from the engine bay.
If the revs were kept high enough for about 5 seconds, the DME would cut off cylinder #2.
Upon checking the error codes, it was identified that the Induction Coil was bad.
Turned out it wasn't that. I swapped the the coil & spark plug from cylinder #2 with the coil and spark plug from cylinder #3 and the problem was still in cylinder #2.

Fast forward a year later (current time), the car runs fine for about 5 minutes, and when the engine warms up, cylinder #2 is cut off (bummer).
If I'm driving it hard, the time until the cylinder is cut off is reduced to about 2 minutes.

A couple of weeks ago I did a compression test. The results were ok considering the car has a tad over 200000km (it was a steady 12.1 - 12.3bar).
The car has started to smoke a bit so I will have to check the PCV valve. If it's not that then the piston rings might be to worn (bummer x2).
I will have to check the cables from the ignition coils, and last but not least I will do a software upgrade (mine is a 2001, 320i, 170hp, 5speed manual, prefacelift).
Someone suggested to check the crankshaft rotation sensor, although I am skeptical about this.
My last thought is to have the DME inspected (and the relays).

I am running out of ideas...

Last edited by alinLink; 01-16-2013 at 10:13 AM.
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