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Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:42 PM   #241
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...I don't think it will work that way, scientifically.

theoretically, Lets say the intake is drawing 100 cfm of air (just to keep the numbers round) through the 3.5 inch tube the MAF would see 100 cfm. Once the turbo begans to builds boost it will create more air than the 100 cfm that the TB is drawing. At that point the 3.5 in tube is closed (because if u don't the air will escape your filter) and all incoming air is from the turbo...there is no lag in air, just the constant increase that the turbo would create anyway....
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Old 06-10-2012, 03:25 PM   #242
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I'm talking about the MAF being the issue. It reads x amount of air but the range will only go so far up or down. To optimize tuning you'll need to scale the MAF tables wide enough to allow it to read the amount of air it draws in as well the amount of air that will be forced in. Scaling the MAF tables to do both seems to be a bit much but I know very little about tuning if you can say I know anything.
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Old 06-10-2012, 07:18 PM   #243
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The point is to not see the turbo boost until after its closed....point being the turbo boost will close it. Pretty simple concept. The valve needs to be closed, otherwise, the boost would escape through the air filter if it remained open.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:09 PM   #244
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Ritos, you are correct, but I'm going to have to do that anyway because the set up is already going to move more air than the MAF can measure. That's where the FIC and tapping the MAF comes in. I'll have to set the MAF clamp to the highest reading or voltage the MAF can handle, then allow the FIC to tune for the additional air.

PEI330, you and I obviously have 2 different approaches to problem solving. And though we have the same hobby goals of creating a fast non-m BMW, we also have 2 different approachs on how to make our cars fast. To take it a step further, we have differing ideas on what parts will make a car fast. You have your way and you have hit your peak HP numbers based on your knowledge (as you do seem to be knowledgable about theses engines). But...you have not broken the 600rwhp on the M54 from what I have seen. With that in mind, you can give definately give your opinion and I welcome your insight on the issues and what you have experienced. My choosing not to follow your advise isnt personal, just my personal choice. Hopefully you can continue to be supportive and provide some valuable insight because everyone is welcome on my thread. But if the fact that I don't share your approach is offensive, then I apologize and understand you just wanting to wait to see where the build ends up.

By my calculations, I have the foundation (sc/t72) to see over 600rwhp. Now I just have to hope that the engine can handle it. Some followers say yes, some followers say no....in the end, it will be what it is!
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:05 PM   #245
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PEI330, you and I obviously have 2 different approaches to problem solving. And though we have the same hobby goals of creating a fast non-m BMW, we also have 2 different approachs on how to make our cars fast. To take it a step further, we have differing ideas on what parts will make a car fast. You have your way and you have hit your peak HP numbers based on your knowledge (as you do seem to be knowledgable about theses engines). But...you have not broken the 600rwhp on the M54 from what I have seen. With that in mind, you can give definately give your opinion and I welcome your insight on the issues and what you have experienced. My choosing not to follow your advise isnt personal, just my personal choice. Hopefully you can continue to be supportive and provide some valuable insight because everyone is welcome on my thread. But if the fact that I don't share your approach is offensive, then I apologize and understand you just wanting to wait to see where the build ends up.
I think you missed what I was getting at.

A turbo can flow 600whp of air at 0 PSI if no restriction is placed across the outlet. By using a sensor placed between the turbo outlet and the primary air filter, it is very possible you will not see enough positive pressure to activate the valve. If the signal source was plenum pressure, which would be highly influenced by mass flow through the SC, I think that could work.

As to what I have or have not done, I'm pretty open with it all. I get asked for help from a wide range of people starting at the inexperienced hobbiest, all the way up to professional race teams, and even on occasion, people working on post graduate studies. (Masters or Doctorates in Engineering) What I don't know myself, I usually have a contact I can ask that can point someone in the right direction. Sure people can have different approaches, but I find the science of this hobby a common absolute.
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:03 AM   #246
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So I'm at my shop this morning digging through my shelves for a part....and I find a custom ATI Harmonic damper I had built for the race car. Here's the thing, it has a 6.8" 6 rib pulley on it.

If you run into issues with belt slip on the SC.....give me a shout. Changing to a larger crank pulley will allow you to run a larger SC pulley which will help with belt slip. I've also got the drive mandrel for a dry sump pump that mates to the ATI damper as well....
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:26 AM   #247
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interesting thought, what's the actual size difference between the stock and the 6.8"? I have to be careful going larger on my pulley because the 11 psi pulley is only seeing 5 psi of boostStill scratching my head over that one. I knew it would drop after porting and the larger TB but that was surprising but works out great for the project.

I would be interested in the damper for the ability to rev higher with the turbo (of course I'd upgrade lifters as well). What's the down side to the ATI?
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:56 PM   #248
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interesting thought, what's the actual size difference between the stock and the 6.8"? I have to be careful going larger on my pulley because the 11 psi pulley is only seeing 5 psi of boostStill scratching my head over that one. I knew it would drop after porting and the larger TB but that was surprising but works out great for the project.

I would be interested in the damper for the ability to rev higher with the turbo (of course I'd upgrade lifters as well). What's the down side to the ATI?
I'll get back to you shortly.

Just had dental surgery....yuck!
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:14 PM   #249
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I feel like I was just mentioned

Quote:
Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post

As to what I have or have not done, I'm pretty open with it all. I get asked for help from a wide range of people starting at the inexperienced hobbiest, all the way up to professional race teams, and even on occasion, people working on post graduate studies. (Masters or Doctorates in Engineering) What I don't know myself, I usually have a contact I can ask that can point someone in the right direction. Sure people can have different approaches, but I find the science of this hobby a common absolute.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:26 PM   #250
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this sounds wayyyy too complicated
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:48 PM   #251
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Uhhh it's not. It's just risk management of a series of events, and an understanding that something is going to break. The reward is being able to enjoy the car before it does. Then the excitement of knowing if it breaks it's a chance to make it stronger and ultimately faster.

Some of us will never meet our HP goals because the darn line keeps moving everytime u get close!!!! and then there is this ridiculous belief that the car can take just a little bit more....well, u don't have to be a rocket scientist to know where that ends.

PEI, no rush...I surprised u even replied. I get drugged for everything the dentist wants to do...even a cleaning
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:00 PM   #252
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I am happy with my stage ii+ and the stage iii. Both ESS. Wagon did a 12.2 at 117 with 19" street tires and full weight
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:11 PM   #253
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I haer you, but u just completed your grade. I bought my ess ts2 in 2009. It was great then, but then i realized how much i was missing this time around i wanted something insane. Ive done just about everything there is to do. Gears, trans swaps, nos, meth, etc...this was the only option for me. You can never have enough boost....
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:22 PM   #254
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umm, no

I have been SCd since 2006 and the stage three since 2008
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:36 PM   #255
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Oh, well ur just a better man than me, im never satisfied...lol

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Old 06-12-2012, 06:36 PM   #256
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remember, both are SCd

but, I will follow your progress - sounds interesting and yes, complicated (to me)
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:36 PM   #257
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Oh, well ur just a better man than me, im never satisfied...lol

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I wasnt tryin to compare
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:09 AM   #258
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Question

Getting a custom exhaust fabricated today. Didn't plan on it, but when I removed the rear section of the muffler and measured the diameter of the dual pipes I learned that it was only 2 inches. I was surprised because it was a full Borla exhaust that I purchased years back. That may even explain some of the choking I was experiencing down low.

So now for the new exhaust. Research is indicating that the max HP on 3 in single is roughly 400 HP. Dual 2.5 is roughly 500 HP. The problem, it has to single into a three inch to feed the turbo. If I dual 2.5 from the header to a 3 in single, say midway, aren't I still limiting the system as if it were a single 3 in exhaust?

If the answer is yes, then I might as well do a single 3 in all the way back.

As of now I'm thinking the best set up would be dual 2.25, yes 2.25, with dual resonators (thinking the resonators will slow the flow as much as a dual 2.5 inch setup will) into the 3 inch. Quiet is king for me. I know this will choke off on high HP for regular turbos but not sure how a rear mount would respond. Also, I'm trying to maintain balance because the less exhaust flow the more lag the turbo would see.

I'll be dropping the current exhaust off this evening so I have a little time to try and figure this out...
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:13 AM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diablorojo View Post
Getting a custom exhaust fabricated today. Didn't plan on it, but when I removed the rear section of the muffler and measured the diameter of the dual pipes I learned that it was only 2 inches. I was surprised because it was a full Borla exhaust that I purchased years back. That may even explain some of the choking I was experiencing down low.

So now for the new exhaust. Research is indicating that the max HP on 3 in single is roughly 400 HP. Dual 2.5 is roughly 500 HP. The problem, it has to single into a three inch to feed the turbo. If I dual 2.5 from the header to a 3 in single, say midway, aren't I still limiting the system as if it were a single 3 in exhaust?

If the answer is yes, then I might as well do a single 3 in all the way back.

As of now I'm thinking the best set up would be dual 2.25, yes 2.25, with dual resonators (thinking the resonators will slow the flow as much as a dual 2.5 inch setup will) into the 3 inch. Quiet is king for me. I know this will choke off on high HP for regular turbos but not sure how a rear mount would respond. Also, I'm trying to maintain balance because the less exhaust flow the more lag the turbo would see.

I'll be dropping the current exhaust off this evening so I have a little time to try and figure this out...
I never had a problem making 600+whp on 3" turboback exhausts.
If you go with resonators use the perforated cores versions and not louvered cored as those slow down exhaust velocity.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:45 AM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
So I'm at my shop this morning digging through my shelves for a part....and I find a custom ATI Harmonic damper I had built for the race car. Here's the thing, it has a 6.8" 6 rib pulley on it.

If you run into issues with belt slip on the SC.....give me a shout. Changing to a larger crank pulley will allow you to run a larger SC pulley which will help with belt slip. I've also got the drive mandrel for a dry sump pump that mates to the ATI damper as well....
oOh the GOODIES! ME WANT!
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