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Old 06-27-2012, 07:40 AM   #61
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Not clear about 1998-2000 models, they may have had different/better quality pumps? It would be interesting to see the stats on that.

But for the 2001 & newer cars, it seems the failure rate is much higher.
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:22 AM   #62
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I was looking at the Bentley yesterday checking for info on the relay and according to them the MS45.1 ECU doesn't use a fuel pump relay. They say the fuel pump module handles that function. But they also said the MS45.1 was only used in (IIRC) the 2002-03 325i and 325Xi.

I thought the MS45.1 was the ECU that was used in the ZHP. Anyone know for sure if the ZHP has a relay?
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:30 AM   #63
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AFAIK, MS45 should be 2003 and up 325 AND 330 (of course, including ZHP) and I highly doubt it doesn't have a relay otherwise there'd be a different part#/spec for the non-M fuel pumps and to my knowledge, there's not. Pop your glovebox and have a look.
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:34 AM   #64
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Not sure about the ZHP, however the M cars may be different??

I have not looked closely at an E46 M car, but my E39 M5 has what looks like a relay, but it is not one. It is called a ETK module or something like that and is all electronic. The pump is PWM controlled from what I understand? Has something to do with fuel delivery at higher RPM under load and the E39 M5 lacks a fuel return from the fuel rail, it returns at the regulator.

It is possible the E46 M cars are similiar?
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:45 AM   #65
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agreed TobyB. 104K miles on mine and 10 yrs old. Original fuel tank. So far if I recall there's only been 1 fuel tank fail under 100K, proactively replacing it at 60K is flushing money away and proven mathematically by results posted in this thread.
Love how this hasn't been debated, proven to be true I guess.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:46 AM   #66
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Love how this hasn't been debated, proven to be true I guess.
If someone said they saw santa clause... nobody would debate it because it's a ridiculous claim. just like yours. go troll somewhere elese.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:48 AM   #67
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And your over the top ridiculous maintenance *****pushing is at least equally as trollsome.

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Old 07-02-2012, 11:49 AM   #68
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really? "p i l l" is a bad word?
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:38 PM   #69
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And your over the top ridiculous maintenance *****pushing is at least equally as trollsome.
The way I see it, E46Mango is just pushing everyone to do the maintenance he recommends simply as reassurance. And even if you don't take what he says in the first place, he knows that it'll come back one way or another down in the line since you all clearly care enough to post in the thread. Too much of anything gets annoying and we all know that, but the given fact is that the number of threads people post up here that are in relation to their cooling systems catastrophically failing, cars not starting, and so on simply outweigh these 'safety precautions' (for lack of a better phrase) that E46Mango, jfoj, dmax, etc. go around posting, trying to help out the many members of the forum. The sarcasm may not be completely necessary at times, but when you take into consideration how many times these guys have to type the same thing over and over again.. You may as well want to have a little fun doing it. Just the way I see it, as you guys are taking some of this stuff way too personally. Not biased in any way.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:46 PM   #70
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I find it entertaining, especially when people react the way they do.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:46 PM   #71
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The way I see it, E46Mango is just pushing everyone to do the maintenance he recommends simply as reassurance. And even if you don't take what he says in the first place, he knows that it'll come back one way or another down in the line since you all clearly care enough to post in the thread. Too much of anything gets annoying and we all know that, but the given fact is that the number of threads people post up here that are in relation to their cooling systems catastrophically failing, cars not starting, and so on simply outweigh these 'safety precautions' (for lack of a better phrase) that E46Mango, jfoj, dmax, etc. go around posting, trying to help out the many members of the forum. The sarcasm may not be completely necessary at times, but when you take into consideration how many times these guys have to type the same thing over and over again.. You may as well want to have a little fun doing it. Just the way I see it, as you guys are taking some of this stuff way too personally. Not biased in any way.
couldn't have said it better myself. having to repeat yourself 10x a day for things that are stickied can be quite annoying. But at the end of the day, it's about helping the community.

As for the "thing's" comment up above about my information being trollsome, there's a distinct difference between people like you and people like us (JFOJ, DMAX, etc):

we're saving cars and saving people money.

you're not.

These cars are cheap to maintain but costly to repair.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:06 PM   #72
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but the given fact is that the number of threads people post up here that are in relation to their cooling systems catastrophically failing, cars not starting, and so on simply outweigh these 'safety precautions' ...
well we know that new to the forum members and infrequent posters will post a thread when they have something that goes wrong. that's the way it is in every forum. so i don't believe these cars are mandated to all these suggestions for replacement parts as you may find posted by some(*general statement not about this particular thread).

so there are basically three outcomes in the suggested preventative maintenance.
1) don't do it and perhaps never need it. thus saving money/time
2) do it and spend less time(on your schedule) and less money (on your schedule)
3) don't do it and (likely)spend more money(not on your schedule) and more time (not on your schedule)

these are choices for everyone and each person has their own way of selecting which is their best choice. but it is very good to have threads that show the positives of a particular choice or what could happen on the downside. but "fearmongering" is something i do not agree with.

fwiw i had over 140K on my original fuel pump and was still going when i sold her.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:17 PM   #73
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just to add to this thread(not threadjack). anyone thinking of changing their fuel pump that does spirited driving may consider at the same time adding in the oem M3 fuel pump baffle. yes the E46 already has a very small baffle built into the fuel tank. but the oem M3 baffle is like a little baffle/cup that holds a little gas directly at the pumps pickup. i had it on my previous E46 and for only ~$15 may be something some may want to do while doing their pump. it will absolutely have no adverse affects and could only aid fuel for the pump in any situations.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:13 PM   #74
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Going to say this once and then be gone...

There are many people on here with 3x the mileage of Mango's 60K service interval on their original fuel pump and doing just fine.
If you want to have peace of mind and spend the hour or 2 to replace a pump twice (total time) and the roughly $250 that takes that is up to you.
For me with CAA and them willing to tow me up to 200 kms it is not mathematically worthwhile to replace the pump until it fails, or shows signs of failing, which it has not.

It is up to the individual, but to say that changing it proactively saves the person money is no more true than saying wait until it fails, both could hold equally true, and in my case as well as many others who have given mileage totals on original pumps, we're saving money by not doing it as a PM item, especially at 60K miles.

PS I'm a technician so saying this is shooting myself in the foot and giving me less work, I also hold an economics degree so don't worry, my math pans out. Up to you whether to trust me or not. I really don't care, but in an era of overspending and lack of savings by young people (we can all agree that runs rampant on here) I would rather you save your money.

Last edited by 2003 325i; 07-02-2012 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:14 AM   #75
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128k - 12 years - original pump / filter / relay - no problems.
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:07 AM   #76
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325,100 miles, original oil pump, relay, & oil filter... No problems...



Jk.

88,000 miles, original. Replacing.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:19 AM   #77
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I believe in preventative maintenance just like mango, my brother is on his 3dr engine he does not. My car is 95k and it looks and runs new but I have spent tons of money to make it look that way or keep it looking new, I dont have a nothing degree but my math adds up anyway you add it.

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Old 07-03-2012, 08:51 AM   #78
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Electrical pump is really not influeced by mileage, more by time.

As I mentioned the earlier pumps may last longer? It appears the 2000-2001 pumps are quckly checking out at the rate of at least a few a week just on this forum. I can assure you the new E9x pumps are failing under warranty and a lot of them!

Choose you poison. I would rather not be stranded, need a tow whether free or not (too many stories of tow truck damage!) Plus the inconvience of of all of it. My time is worth more than a fuel pump that will leave me or my wife stranded!
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:40 AM   #79
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Going to say this once and then be gone...

There are many people on here with 3x the mileage of Mango's 60K service interval on their original fuel pump and doing just fine.
If you want to have peace of mind and spend the hour or 2 to replace a pump twice (total time) and the roughly $250 that takes that is up to you.
For me with CAA and them willing to tow me up to 200 kms it is not mathematically worthwhile to replace the pump until it fails, or shows signs of failing, which it has not.

It is up to the individual, but to say that changing it proactively saves the person money is no more true than saying wait until it fails, both could hold equally true, and in my case as well as many others who have given mileage totals on original pumps, we're saving money by not doing it as a PM item, especially at 60K miles.

PS I'm a technician so saying this is shooting myself in the foot and giving me less work, I also hold an economics degree so don't worry, my math pans out. Up to you whether to trust me or not. I really don't care, but in an era of overspending and lack of savings by young people (we can all agree that runs rampant on here) I would rather you save your money.
Next time you see teenager blow $50 on racing stripes, $1,200 on LM reps, or $100 on AEs, I hope you speak up then

Yet when the mango or fjoj spend that money on a fuel pump, it's considered "overspending".

Also remember just cause your pump "works" does not mean it's putting out adequate volume and pressure. Same especially holds true for the fuel filters. Those lean codes and rough starting you could never figue out? Surprise surprise.

And BTW I don't think I ever said 60k for the pump. As JFOJ said, it goes by hours. Typically 10 years is when they start to go bad. The filter... 60k definitely.
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Last edited by Mango; 07-03-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:58 AM   #80
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136,000 miles

- expansion tank blew at almost exactly 100k miles. Replaced cooling system
- Fuel pump. Still on factory unit
- Battery - been changed a few times... makes sense given the car sits
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