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Old 08-08-2012, 08:17 AM   #21
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Nice try, but no it doesn't.
You should look it up before you open your mouth and make yourself look like an idiot.

In the vast majority of computer languages the sign for not equal to is != this is so widely used in computer science it is now moved out into normal life and can be seen any number of place.... wikipedia for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equals_sign#Not_equal

As for an engine swap, swaping an S54 into a 330 doesn't make an M3 its makes a faster 330 that no will ever buy from you.
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:42 AM   #22
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Supercharging doesn't give you the power band and reliability of an S54 engine swap.

The best option is always to sell the car now, and buy the car you want.
Right. That desirable powerband all at the top end. A lot of people would prefer it to be more of an even spread, which is what you would get with good FI. The ESS TS2 and Technique Tuning non-Ms would spank a relatively stock M.
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:52 AM   #23
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Right. That desirable powerband all at the top end. A lot of people would prefer it to be more of an even spread, which is what you would get with good FI. The ESS TS2 and Technique Tuning non-Ms would spank a relatively stock M.
My previous post holds true.

Also, how much does the stage 2 ESS TS2 cost again? Around 7k new, without installation. You don't get an extra gear for that price either.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:05 AM   #24
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My previous post holds true.

Also, how much does the stage 2 ESS TS2 cost again? Around 7k new, without installation. You don't get an extra gear for that price either.
Should have bought a 6 speed. Who's problem is that? You can sell it and get an M3, it's a great car, but there are those with logical reasons to not buy an M3. If you don't understand that, you will in time...

Oh and BTW the S54 is a drama queen of a motor, I think it'd be roughly even with an FI non-M reliability wise.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:26 PM   #25
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By logical reasons do you mean cost of parts, maintenance, and reliability? Insurance too?
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:54 PM   #26
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By logical reasons do you mean cost of parts, maintenance, and reliability? Insurance too?
The E46 M3 is a bit crude. The motor makes most of its power up top, and while you can reduce the rasp, you are really reducing a characteristic of the car.

They need valve adjustments, their Vanos' can and do fail (bolts, hub) and the Vanos costs $1200+

The bodywork is a touch flamboyant for many as well (E46 M only). Insurance is higher and many parts cost roughly 2x as much. M3s seem to "break" just about as often as non-Ms, but when they do you're typically in for a much higher bill.

Also, they don't have that much torque or get up and go below 4k RPM or so, and the gas mileage isn't great.

A turbo 330 will have more horsepower and torque (WAY more torque), cheaper insurance, a lower cost for average maintenance, and pretty much untouched gas mileage versus a stock 330. The gas mileage difference is pretty significant. My average is 17.5 city/32 highway. In an M it would be (and has been- driven many) more like 16 city/25-26 highway. Now, to support a turbo, you really need perfect brakes, stainless lines, up rated pads, a limited slip and a subframe reinforcement, so the cost of entry would on average be higher than just buying an M. To me- the extra is worth it.
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:25 PM   #27
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nope as in agree with me?
cuz != means NOT EQUAL TO.
oh I admit I did not catch that "!"
!(S54 + 330i = M3)

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Originally Posted by zhp43867 View Post
Right. That desirable powerband all at the top end. A lot of people would prefer it to be more of an even spread, which is what you would get with good FI. The ESS TS2 and Technique Tuning non-Ms would spank a relatively stock M.
The ESS TS2 is a great kit. But let's put this all in perspective.
That's a $7,000 kit that takes 8-10hrs labor costs.
You mention the S54 having mostly top end. Its actually rather a steady powerband. It also has a 8,2000 rev limit which is nicer to wind out and stay in gears longer. The twin screw is low-mid(which is good on the M54). with that low end power how does it get it to the ground? that'Ps correct, not much "spanking" going to happen with that open diff doing peg leg spins. so add another $3K-$4k for a LSD and subframe re-inforcement. then depending on the system, you may need an oil cooler for the engine.
So you're ~$12,000 in to whatever the car is worth. that's not even talking about stronger transmission, drive axles and clutch.
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:36 PM   #28
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Impressive Auto Center in NY

Price depends on the condition and mileage of your original engine/transmission, as they keep those components.
you might as well take a snit and put it on top of your engine.
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:49 PM   #29
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Should have bought a 6 speed. Who's problem is that? You can sell it and get an M3, it's a great car, but there are those with logical reasons to not buy an M3. If you don't understand that, you will in time...

Oh and BTW the S54 is a drama queen of a motor, I think it'd be roughly even with an FI non-M reliability wise.
There are reasons for and against, you and I both know that.

Both are expensive solutions with their own problems. Turning the M54 engine into an M3 killer isn't going to leave you with a reliable daily driver without serious modification and internal work.
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:49 PM   #30
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you might as well take a snit and put it on top of your engine.
What?
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Old 08-08-2012, 02:23 PM   #31
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oh I admit I did not catch that "!"
!(S54 + 330i = M3)


The ESS TS2 is a great kit. But let's put this all in perspective.
That's a $7,000 kit that takes 8-10hrs labor costs.
You mention the S54 having mostly top end. Its actually rather a steady powerband. It also has a 8,2000 rev limit which is nicer to wind out and stay in gears longer. The twin screw is low-mid(which is good on the M54). with that low end power how does it get it to the ground? that'Ps correct, not much "spanking" going to happen with that open diff doing peg leg spins. so add another $3K-$4k for a LSD and subframe re-inforcement. then depending on the system, you may need an oil cooler for the engine.
So you're ~$12,000 in to whatever the car is worth. that's not even talking about stronger transmission, drive axles and clutch.
I already mentioned the limited slip and subframe reinforcement. Tell me something I don't already know. Besides the M3 still needs a similar subframe reinforcement. The Technique Tuning turbo E46s will walk you/spank you/kill you unless you've got serious motor work. That doesn't make a Turbo 330 a better car, but the M3 is no clear victor either.

McSpeed reportedly repeatedly walked an E92 M3 up to 160+ with his turbo ZHP.

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There are reasons for and against, you and I both know that.

Both are expensive solutions with their own problems. Turning the M54 engine into an M3 killer isn't going to leave you with a reliable daily driver without serious modification and internal work.
Tell that to the people running the turbo kits. No internal work. The M3 is a nice car and a package, but it can be beaten. A ZHP turbo is around 395hp and 385 lb ft of torque without getting into the motor. Technique Tuning is killer. Go look it up.

The TS2+ and TT E46s with limited slips are looking at taking cars like the E90 M3 more than the E46 M3; bigger fish to fry.
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:54 PM   #32
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I already mentioned the limited slip and subframe reinforcement. Tell me something I don't already know.
Besides the M3 still needs a similar subframe reinforcement. The Technique Tuning turbo E46s will walk you/spank you/kill you unless you've got serious motor work. That doesn't make a Turbo 330 a better car, but the M3 is no clear victor either.
*sorry i typed that earlier but took a phone call and by the time posted it you had already put another post in.
The M3 does not "need" this other subframe reinforcement. but yes they do still get fractures. the LS rear diff carrier design is more friendly to the subframe mounts. non-m + FI is a torn subframe..period.
A ESS, TT FI kit basically maxes out where the M3 starts. An M3 Stage1 91 octane HPF kit makes like 515 Hp. Now that's a base which will spank and thus humiliate where the M54 runs flat.
The S54 is such a better power plant than the M52/M54/M56 there is no comparison. There is a good reason it won the International Engine Award and Best Engine 3L-4L category six years in a row from 2001-2006. We're talking a completely street and 50 state smog legal engine that makes over 100Hp per liter.
oh and it makes it's maximum torque at 4900rpm which is not high compared to it's 8,000 rpm redline.

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McSpeed reportedly repeatedly walked an E92 M3 up to 160+ with his turbo ZHP.
The M3 is a nice car and a package, but it can be beaten. A ZHP turbo is around 395hp and 385 lb ft of torque without getting into the motor. Technique Tuning is killer. Go look it up.
The TS2+ and TT E46s with limited slips are looking at taking cars like the E90 M3 more than the E46 M3; bigger fish to fry.
really you're gonna site one guys built turbo 330 against stock M3s. like i said, there are loads of HPF Turbo kits on M3s. where his is maxed out, those others are at the beginning stage of applicable engine improvements. look up HPF M3 Turbos. that mean little M54 won't be doing any fish frys, but rather get itself burned if it goes up against any M3 that have like mods.
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:38 PM   #33
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I hope technique tuning spends all their money on R&D.

Their website would've looked substandard in 1999, their return policy is worse than some eBay sellers', and the kits have no warranty.
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:01 PM   #34
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*sorry i typed that earlier but took a phone call and by the time posted it you had already put another post in.
The M3 does not "need" this other subframe reinforcement. but yes they do still get fractures. the LS rear diff carrier design is more friendly to the subframe mounts. non-m + FI is a torn subframe..period.
A ESS, TT FI kit basically maxes out where the M3 starts. An M3 Stage1 91 octane HPF kit makes like 515 Hp. Now that's a base which will spank and thus humiliate where the M54 runs flat.
The S54 is such a better power plant than the M52/M54/M56 there is no comparison. There is a good reason it won the International Engine Award and Best Engine 3L-4L category six years in a row from 2001-2006. We're talking a completely street and 50 state smog legal engine that makes over 100Hp per liter.
oh and it makes it's maximum torque at 4900rpm which is not high compared to it's 8,000 rpm redline.


really you're gonna site one guys built turbo 330 against stock M3s. like i said, there are loads of HPF Turbo kits on M3s. where his is maxed out, those others are at the beginning stage of applicable engine improvements. look up HPF M3 Turbos. that mean little M54 won't be doing any fish frys, but rather get itself burned if it goes up against any M3 that have like mods.
Haha. The TT Stage 2 on pump gas is estimated to make 450rwhp. That is for around $7000. Started where the non M ends? You have 450hp N/A? Because if you don't, and M3 + FI is more than a non-M + FI.

Sure the M53 doesn't go up to 1100hp, but the HPF kits are rather useless for high speed street/track driving, with limited to no control over their absurd power band. An ESS kit would be a better comparison. Using HPF as the benchmark shows how little you know, or maybe how far you're willing to go to fail at proving some new point that you are attempting to make. The comparison was between a relatively similar price range, which is a non-M (330) + FI vs an N/A M3.

The very thing that makes the M3 capable of producing more power F/I (cast iron!) also makes the motor an absolute boat anchor for an I6.

Honda made a 50 state legal engine N/A engine with 120hp per liter that didn't have $800 hubs exploding and bolts backing out. It was put in the S2000. I do like the S54, but is not the be all end all of motor technology. I find the S65 a more impressive motor by far.

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I hope technique tuning spends all their money on R&D.

Their website would've looked substandard in 1999, their return policy is worse than some eBay sellers', and the kits have no warranty.
Research the kit more before you open your mouth.
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:35 PM   #35
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Well what I think we can conclude is that everyone in here has their personal preferences of what they would like their money to go towards.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:03 PM   #36
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Haha. The TT Stage 2 on pump gas is estimated to make 450rwhp. That is for around $7000. Started where the non M ends? You have 450hp N/A? Because if you don't, and M3 + FI is more than a non-M + FI.
Sure the M53 doesn't go up to 1100hp, but the HPF kits are rather useless for high speed street/track driving, with limited to no control over their absurd power band. An ESS kit would be a better comparison. Using HPF as the benchmark shows how little you know, or maybe how far you're willing to go to fail at proving some new point that you are attempting to make. The comparison was between a relatively similar price range, which is a non-M (330) + FI vs an N/A M3.
Umm, the TT Stage 2 Turbo kit says it needs a new head gasket for the compression ratio(tearing into the head), needs 93 Octane gas(not 91!) and makes 375 rwhp NOT 450 rwhp. http://www.techniquetuning.com/bmw-e...st2-turbo.html
I don't even know what you're talking about with the M53
Oh and btw..Do you have/had a Supercharger or Turbo on your E46? How about a Limited Slip Differential on an non-M?? How about owning an E46 M3??? Well...guess who has had all of the above and has first hand knowledge on this. That's right ME! think maybe I know something now? *rhetorical question
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The very thing that makes the M3 capable of producing more power F/I (cast iron!) also makes the motor an absolute boat anchor for an I6.
Oh sure that it. maybe there was another reason for it and it's benefits. like:
Compactness is the primary reason. An inline six is longer than a V- 6, and BMW nurtures the inline layout because of its superior smoothness and sound. An aluminum block's cylinder liners take up space; with liners it would not have been possible to achieve the engine's 3.2-liter displacement without lengthening the block.
The second reason is strength. Given that this engine develops fully 333 hp from 3.2 liters - significantly over 100 hp per liter - its internal stresses are immense. According to M3 Project Director Siegfried Friedmann, BMW engineers researched a silicon-impregnated aluminum block (as used in BMW V-8 and V-12 engines), which would not require liners. But they became convinced that a cast-iron block could best sustain the engine's high cylinder pressures and very high piston speed at maximum rpm. (Current Formula 1 engines attain piston speeds around 25 meters per second; with 24 m/sec. at its rpm limit of 8000 rpm, the S54 is very close.)
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Honda made a 50 state legal engine N/A engine with 120hp per liter that didn't have $800 hubs exploding and bolts backing out. It was put in the S2000. I do like the S54, but is not the be all end all of motor technology. I find the S65 a more impressive motor by far.
We are talking about the M52/M54/M56 engines vs the S54.
That's a whole other topic and not in this discussion. You'll get no disagreement about how good that Honda engine is from me.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:19 PM   #37
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Why does no one think about depreciation? You will actually end up spending more making your 330 like an M3 than you would buying an M3 because you will be spending more money and making the car worth less. On the other hand, an M3 is a standard car that depreciates like any half-special 5yr+ old car.


Unless you MUST have a sedan, like me, because coupes are for girls and old people ;P
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:22 AM   #38
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Research the kit more before you open your mouth.

Is there something about owning a ZHP that makes their owners condescending pricks?

Bottom of the page, no warranty: http://www.techniquetuning.com/disclaimer.html
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:52 AM   #39
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Is there something about owning a ZHP that makes their owners condescending pricks?

Bottom of the page, no warranty: http://www.techniquetuning.com/disclaimer.html
Much ownage was had this day.
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:47 AM   #40
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Didn't some guy from Norway get 500rwhp from a FI m54? I thinks that's prob the top end on the cars.
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