The shop that does the s54/6 spd swap...What shop?

Originally Posted by Alex323Ci

Umm, the TT Stage 2 Turbo kit says it needs a new head gasket for the compression ratio(tearing into the head), needs 93 Octane gas(not 91!) and makes 375 rwhp NOT 450 rwhp. http://www.techniquetuning.com/bmw-e...st2-turbo.html
I don't even know what you're talking about with the M53
Oh and btw..Do you have/had a Supercharger or Turbo on your E46? How about a Limited Slip Differential on an non-M?? How about owning an E46 M3??? Well...guess who has had all of the above and has first hand knowledge on this. That's right ME! think maybe I know something now? *rhetorical question

According to M3 Project Director Siegfried Friedmann, BMW engineers researched a silicon-impregnated aluminum block (as used in BMW V-8 and V-12 engines), which would not require liners. But they became convinced that a cast-iron block could best sustain the engine's high cylinder pressures and very high piston speed at maximum rpm. (Current Formula 1 engines attain piston speeds around 25 meters per second; with 24 m/sec. at its rpm limit of 8000 rpm, the S54 is very close.)

We are talking about the M52/M54/M56 engines vs the S54.
That's a whole other topic and not in this discussion. You'll get no disagreement about how good that Honda engine is from me.

I misspoke about 450rwhp, it is 450hp. Which is far more than your engine puts out if it is N/A. It is close to 400hp without the head gasket change.

I am about to get a built LSD with the reinforcement from Maximum PSI, both upper and lower. I know a guy with an N/A E46 M3 who had to re-do a reinforced subframe due to failure, the changes in the M3 subframe were not enough to make it immune.

I have been in many FI E46s and have settled on TT when I have the time and the money to back the turbo. I have the money for the turbo now, but that's not close to enough.

BTW one area I don't know very much at all is the advantage of the M diff and axle size, so I'd appreciate it if you'd provide the information; PMd.

While I have not owned an E46 M3 personally, I have driven around 15 of them and we had one in the family for eight years which I drove regularly, and serviced. I know most of the ins and outs of the E46 M3. Just because you made a certain decision does not make it the best one and certainly not the right one for everyone. That's the whole point I am making. Things are not black and white, they hardly ever are.

By the way, a supercharged 323 is not the equal of a turbocharged six speed 330, at all. You're right, the 323 runs out of options where the M's options begin.

I never said anything about V6s. So I deleted that whole part of your post, wasn't talking about it.

Compared to the M54, the S54 is way stronger, more advanced, and much, much heavier. Not disputable.

I have nothing but respect for the design of the S54 as a race born street motor, but because of that it has maintenance costs which I was and am not willing to assume at this point in my life. I have done thorough research to the effect that the TT 330 would not cost me as much to maintain. Not entry cost, maintenance cost.

I sold one ZHP and was seriously looking at E46 M3s, but because I am not at a settled point in my life, I decided the S54 was not worth its drama. Which it has. Being an S54 owner you have to know that- so don't deny it.

And M53 was a typo. I'd take that typo over your awfully lated out post which was extremely difficult to read, so I apologize in advance if I missed anything.

Originally Posted by ac_2007

Is there something about owning a ZHP that makes their owners condescending pricks?

Bottom of the page, no warranty: http://www.techniquetuning.com/disclaimer.html

Yes, I am condescending because this forum is full of regurgitated information. It comes from owners who have far too little experience regarding a given subject to really speak about it at all.

I disputed your /thread type of answer which is totally unfounded. You'll find the aftermarket companies that offer warranties are extremely limited and often disappointing, as modifying a used vehicle is a tricky business that the owners of these companies really should not assume responsibility for. You clearly know little to nothing about the kit, so don't act like you do.

I did not dispute what you said about the warranty. Research the merits of Nick G before equating his kit to something that came off of eBay.

BTW anything you have bought that was not OEM or OE BMW probably said "For offroad use only".

Originally Posted by zhp43867

I have nothing but respect for the design of the S54 as a race born street motor, but because of that it has maintenance costs which I was and am not willing to assume at this point in my life. I have done thorough research to the effect that the TT 330 would not cost me as much to maintain. Not entry cost, maintenance cost.

How many FI cars have you maintained?

Originally Posted by zhp43867

Yes, I am condescending because this forum is full of regurgitated information. It comes from owners who have far too little experience regarding a given subject to really speak about it at all.

I disputed your /thread type of answer which is totally unfounded. You'll find the aftermarket companies that offer warranties are extremely limited and often disappointing, as modifying a used vehicle is a tricky business that the owners of these companies really should not assume responsibility for. You clearly know little to nothing about the kit, so don't act like you do.

I did not dispute what you said about the warranty. Research the merits of Nick G before equating his kit to something that came off of eBay.

BTW anything you have bought that was not OEM or OE BMW probably said "For offroad use only".

You may want to read more carefully, I equated the return policy to that of an eBay product, not the product itself.

As I already knew, achieving those HP figures requires internal work. Lo and behold, the kit includes plenty of hardware to address that. What's there to know about the kit that isn't already shown? The ECU re-programming would interest me the most.

You're probably disappointed I didn't look into Nick's family tree, thus you think I'm discrediting his product. Most car owners considering forced induction would place a warranty pretty high on their list of prerequisites for the kit, don't you think? Its automotive hardware, its not magically immune because a guy named Nick G put it together. You'll always have to live with that risk and liability.

The arguments I'm hearing from your side sound more like you're trying to justify modding your 330 instead of owning an M3. More power to you (pun intended). Your path isn't an end all, be all solution.

You think maintenance costs on a 450hp forced-induction car without a completely built engine are going to be cheaper than maintaining an S54?


Good Luck.

Originally Posted by ac_2007

You may want to read more carefully, I equated the return policy to that of an eBay product, not the product itself.

As I already knew, achieving those HP figures requires internal work. Lo and behold, the kit includes plenty of hardware to address that. What's there to know about the kit that isn't already shown? The ECU re-programming would interest me the most.

You're probably disappointed I didn't look into Nick's family tree, thus you think I'm discrediting his product. Most car owners considering forced induction would place a warranty pretty high on their list of prerequisites for the kit, don't you think? Its automotive hardware, its not magically immune because a guy named Nick G put it together. You'll always have to live with that risk and liability.

The arguments I'm hearing from your side sound more like you're trying to justify modding your 330 instead of owning an M3. More power to you (pun intended). Your path isn't an end all, be all solution.

The tuning would interest you the most? Why don't you do some FVCKING RESEARCH. This is not a new kit. The software has been covered. It is extremely solid. Nick G is also known for fixing bad FI tunes provided by companies like Downing Atlanta and VF. To reinforce the point (due to your lack of reading comprehension), the ~400hp version of the kit does NOT require internal work.

I am not justifying anything to myself, I made a choice. I sleep fine at night. Who knows, I may not even do the turbo. I decided against an M3 (though I could have one for the money I had for my car) for the aforementioned reasons. It really seems to shake you to the bone that I don't consider the M3 god, nor do I wish I had one every time I fire up my car.

I'm waiting for Alex to come back and for you to leave.

Stop wasting my goddamn time.

Originally Posted by trive2

You think maintenance costs on a 450hp forced-induction car without a completely built engine are going to be cheaper than maintaining an S54?

Good Luck.

Yes as a matter of fact I do. How much do you know about the S54? More than the costs, the sporadic and only semi-preventable failure of the vanos and potentially the motor scare me the most.

Originally Posted by zhp43867

..I know most of the ins and outs of the E46 M3. Just because you made a certain decision does not make it the best one and certainly not the right one for everyone. That's the whole point I am making. Things are not black and white, they hardly ever are.

let me address this first. i completely agree.
i have many posts on the forum about which may or may not be the good choice for each person. people have different needs, expectations and things willing to give up for something wanting to gain. this is not to prove someone wrong, but rather the things i found stated to be "not exactly" correct. i enjoy the exchange in these threads (and the enlightenment) of those who have done much research.

Originally Posted by zhp43867

I misspoke about 450rwhp, it is 450hp. Which is far more than your engine puts out if it is N/A. It is close to 400hp without the head gasket change.

i'm still not sure that's correct. from their website the Stage 1 E46 330 is still only like 315Hp(+10 zhp). it's like a max boost of 8.5psi on 91 octane. http://www.techniquetuning.com/e46330turbo.html
*the other Stage 2 kits NEEDS the work on the engine (head gasket) to lower the compression so it can run the 13psi and minimum 93 Octane to achieve the much higher dyno numbers. so basically 315rwhp on a Turbo 330. my completely street legal, 50 state Smog Legal M3 does dynos at ~300 rwhp. So like my point was it's about the same yet the S54 still has so much room and not the ceiling the M54 does at this point. and completely street and smog legal which the Turbo is not.

Originally Posted by zhp43867

I am about to get a built LSD with the reinforcement from Maximum PSI
I have been in many FI E46s and have settled on TT when I have the time and the money to back the turbo. I have the money for the turbo now, but that's not close to enough.

i was not nagging on anyone for not having it. only that i have experience. i'm sure you can afford it.
as for the LSD, my non-M LSD was the unit from Turner Motorsports before they were too expensive for TMS even to carry. now they sell OS Giken.

Originally Posted by zhp43867

By the way, a supercharged 323 is not the equal of a turbocharged six speed 330, at all. You're right, the 323 runs out of options where the M's options begin.

Well although my car was not exhaust driven by the turbo, it was still the unit that Alpina uses and was a centrifugal compressor. but belt driven not exhaust driven for all the benefits.
6 speed is ultimately the same gearing with the exception of the last highway overdriven gear. the amount of boost one is willing to expose one's motor to is more the limiting factor. not so much the 2.5L. altho 2.8L, 3L are better internally.

Originally Posted by zhp43867

Compared to the M54, the S54 is way stronger, more advanced, and much, much heavier. Not disputable.
I have nothing but respect for the design of the S54 as a race born street motor, but because of that it has maintenance costs which I was and am not willing to assume at this point in my life. I have done thorough research to the effect that the TT 330 would not cost me as much to maintain. Not entry cost, maintenance cost.
I sold one ZHP and was seriously looking at E46 M3s, but because I am not at a settled point in my life, I decided the S54 was not worth its drama. Which it has. Being an S54 owner you have to know that- so don't deny it.

S54 isn't for everyone. it is certainly heavier, and the reason given to ensure it's longevity.
i can not agree the S54 is "drama" or that it's not worth it. but it's not (in it's stock form) as indestructible as the M54. but it's not as tempermental as a FI M54.
not to mention Being Illegal, which is something some states take seriously.which was a major deciding factor.

Originally Posted by zhp43867

The tuning would interest you the most? Why don't you do some FVCKING RESEARCH. This is not a new kit. The software has been covered. It is extremely solid. Nick G is also known for fixing bad FI tunes provided by companies like Downing Atlanta and VF. To reinforce the point (due to your lack of reading comprehension), the ~400hp version of the kit does NOT require internal work.

I am not justifying anything to myself, I made a choice. I sleep fine at night. Who knows, I may not even do the turbo. I decided against an M3 (though I could have one for the money I had for my car) for the aforementioned reasons. It really seems to shake you to the bone that I don't consider the M3 god, nor do I wish I had one every time I fire up my car.

I'm waiting for Alex to come back and for you to leave.

Stop wasting my goddamn time.

No warranty, no care. What don't you understand by that numb nuts?
@ the notion of your time being valuable. You make your point like a 3rd grader writes his book review.


U mad bro? The survey says:

Alex, nice talking with you. Good points.

Originally Posted by ac_2007

@ the notion of your time being valuable. You make your point like a 3rd grader writes his book review. U mad bro? And the survey says:

This post sums it up. Clearly I'm the third grader here, you got me. Wow, how did I not see it?! I hang my head in shame.

Originally Posted by scrace

coming from someone who spent 3 months looking....any m3 in good condition is going to be 4-6k above that price AT LEAST.

Not if you live in florida like me. 1 in 10 cars is a bmw and the m3 is a civic around here. I can pick up a pre 03 m3 for 12k with 80k miles or so in good shape. If the market is saturated with the same product prices go down. Common sense. Miami/ tampa are loaded with m3's as well. People wont even look twice if you roll by in a bimmer around here let alone any european luxury car.

Originally Posted by ///M=Power

Not if you live in florida like me. 1 in 10 cars is a bmw and the m3 is a civic around here. I can pick up a pre 03 m3 for 12k with 80k miles or so in good shape. If the market is saturated with the same product prices go down. Common sense. Miami/ tampa are loaded with m3's as well. People wont even look twice if you roll by in a bimmer around here let alone any european luxury car.

We all know the deal. We all live in the US, no area is that special. When you look closer at the "good deal" cars with 80k, they need a lot more work than you'd think even just by driving them. Bargain M3s are not bargain M3s at all.

Originally Posted by zhp43867

We all know the deal. We all live in the US, no area is that special. When you look closer at the "good deal" cars with 80k, they need a lot more work than you'd think even just by driving them. Bargain M3s are not bargain M3s at all.

The e46 is an ancient car now. They arent worth sh!t anymore and yes cars are cheaper in different areas. Bargain m3's up by you may be rust buckets because of snow. Cars last longer down here...and the roads are good so suspension components last longer because its so flat here. Id never drive a northern car.

Originally Posted by ///M=Power

The e46 is an ancient car now. They arent worth sh!t anymore and yes cars are cheaper in different areas. Bargain m3's up by you may be rust buckets because of snow. Cars last longer down here...and the roads are good so suspension components last longer because its so flat here. Id never drive a northern car.

Salt air ain't good for our cars either, and they don't easily rust unless you never clean them. Humidity and heat/sun destroys florida cars, I wouldn't prefer one to a Northeast car.

I like cars from the VA/NC/SC and California the best, condition wise.

Bargain M3s are not bargain M3s. Buy one and you'll realize, "shiit they were right." But I really don't give a fvck, I'm done with this thread, all the tools came out of the woodwork.

LULZ just wanted a name of a shop now its a debate. ill do what i want with my car.

Welcome to E46Fanatics

Originally Posted by ac_2007

welcome to e46fanatics

=d

I have a 2002 325ci with ESS TS2 kit and yes, installing a 3.38 LSD and sub frame reinforcemant kit is a good idea but talked to guys at Turner Motorsports and they said there is no need to upgrade anything else on driveline including the clutch. So it will cost roughtly 10,000 to do it properly. I've probably invested twice that into mine over time but I've had mine since new and love not having a car payment. Love the M3 but this seemed the easier way to go for me and easier on wallet.

Originally Posted by BMANN405

I have a 2002 325ci with ESS TS2 kit and yes, installing a 3.38 LSD and sub frame reinforcemant kit is a good idea but talked to guys at Turner Motorsports and they said there is no need to upgrade anything else on driveline including the clutch. So it will cost roughtly 10,000 to do it properly. I've probably invested twice that into mine over time but I've had mine since new and love not having a car payment. Love the M3 but this seemed the easier way to go for me and easier on wallet.

10,000 "to do it properly"
+20,000 "invested twice that into mine over time"
+5000-12,000 - Initial car cost
--------------------------------------
= 35,000 to 42,000k on a 325i


Darn, some men just want to watch the world burn.

Originally Posted by BMANN405

I have a 2002 325ci with ESS TS2 kit and yes, installing a 3.38 LSD and sub frame reinforcemant kit is a good idea but talked to guys at Turner Motorsports and they said there is no need to upgrade anything else on driveline including the clutch. So it will cost roughtly 10,000 to do it properly. I've probably invested twice that into mine over time but I've had mine since new and love not having a car payment. Love the M3 but this seemed the easier way to go for me and easier on wallet.

there are definitely positives and negatives on both sides of thinking.
think most of them have been brought up here in this thread. not everyone has the same things wanted or compromises, legal restrictions.

the 325 manual has weaker axles, driveshaft and clutch isn't as strong. it will work with these but depending on use/abuse it could cause premature failure.

Tru that but a 325ci that will leave any stock M3 behind and looks just as good. Around 350hp at flywheel and total sleeper. A decent E46 M3 even used around the time I purchased mine would have cost more initially not including any maintenance or repairs over time. I love moding and working on my car. If I'm not moding I'm thinking about it.

Originally Posted by stookin

LULZ just wanted a name of a shop now its a debate. ill do what i want with my car.

Azevedo Motorsports in linden NJ