Bav (bsw) sound solutions???

Originally Posted by staticbelow

Update**

Well I finally got the correct speakers on August 26th. I installed them and they sound great in my 2002 330xi. I have the HK package and one of the old speakers was shot so I couldn't turn it up very much without getting a lot of terrible noises. The new speakers (6.5 sub woofers in the front doors) sound nice and added some punch.

If you bought the full set, then you paid somewhere between $600-$900, right? And for that, you got "sound(s) nice, and some added punch?
For that much money, they should send a hooker to blow you whenever you turn on the (14 year old technology) stereo.
I do not understand how this company has been able to convince anyone to pay that much money for their products, with the exception of some owners who bought the car new, 7 - 12 years ago.
I spent $700, and got a receiver with CD, HD Radio, iPod control, Bluetooth, and XM Radio, component speakers front and rear (Boston Acoustics), a box with 2 10in subs, and 3 Rockford Fosgate Amps to drive it all, and it sounds like the freaking voice of God. It would sound "nice" if I jabbed an ice pick in both ears.
You do not need 16 speakers if you have prodigious power, and a high tech head unit. Two tweeters, and two mids in the door and Barack deck and two subs in the back are more than enough. Shoving odd sized speakers in every nook in the cabin is the auto manufacturers equivalent of shoving rolled up socks in your underwear - it is compensating for a basic deficiency. Shoving BSW speakers in the same nooks is the equivalent of shoving a rolled up Hermés tie in your underwear.

@MJLavelle - I just got two speakers - the largest ones in the front doors. "The new speakers (6.5 sub woofers in the front doors) sound nice and added some punch." I really just wanted to replace the bad speaker but since BMW decided to use a speaker that is not common in any way and I didn't feel like spending the time to cut in my own speakers I just bought the (somewhat) direct replacement from BSW.

Your setup sounds amazing though.

Originally Posted by staticbelow

@MJLavelle - I just got two speakers - the largest ones in the front doors. "The new speakers (6.5 sub woofers in the front doors) sound nice and added some punch." I really just wanted to replace the bad speaker but since BMW decided to use a speaker that is not common in any way and I didn't feel like spending the time to cut in my own speakers I just bought the (somewhat) direct replacement from BSW.

Your setup sounds amazing though.

I am going to apologize for my tone last night. I was beyond grouchy. There are a few on the forum who know exactly why I can get in such moods.
But I stick by the fact that BSW is able to sell product at their prices.
Thee front door speakers are 5.25, or 6.5 with some trimming, which is very common. And if you buy a set of component speakers, you can mount the tweeter in the door handle spot with almost no modification at all. Some of the others are odd sized, but you really do not need them. Butt you could have replaced your door speakers with common sized speakers, with barely any modification, and 1/3 of the price. If you look at my car, you would never know what was in there. Everything fits behind the factory grills, and is super simple to install.
There are a lot of misconceptions about aftermarket stereos and BMW's. You will also notice that the BSW reps on the forum usually stay far away from these conversations. I have no doubt that their speakers are good quality. But the price is astonomical, and is not proportionate to the quality of the product. And the truth is, you do not need those speciality shaped speakers if you just get rid of that BMW head unit.
There is a lot of stories about aftermarket gear interfering with the CAN Bus. Some of it may be true, but most is not. As for me, I just went with the safe route, and pulled all of my wires through braided stainless steel tubing, and grounded it on both ends. That creates an EMI shield, and is not that much more work.
Anyhow, I am glad you are happy, and just ignore my attitude last night. If you ever want to just replace the BMW gear, send me a PM. I know where the bargains are hiding in car stereo gear, and where to spend your money, and where to cut corners. Now, my stuff is not that audiophile, competition type stuff. I just want a good, clean, detailed sound, that is as good as or better than your living room system.

Originally Posted by MJLavelle

If you ever want to just replace the BMW gear, send me a PM. I know where the bargains are hiding in car stereo gear, and where to spend your money, and where to cut corners. Now, my stuff is not that audiophile, competition type stuff. I just want a good, clean, detailed sound, that is as good as or better than your living room system.

There are many of us who feel we are held hostage by BSW/BMW because when we try to find upgrade replacements, no one has anything listed. (Crutchfield never considered the e46 market large enough???) BMW seems to have put in odd sizes that will not fit any other speaker universally.
If you don't want to post info that would mightily help many on the public forum, I'd be more than willing to PM you for that information?

After some extensive time around BSW equipment, I was impressed with the improved quality over OEM standard speakers and the seamless installs. A few of my friends have BSW stuff in their car, and they were ALL ecstatic with their stuff!

MJ, it seems that you feel "it" could be done for less, which is a totally understandable perspective. I, however, feel like people trust in BSW's products as the majority of their offered items are a relatively simple (and high quality) plug-and-play, and that added ease/confidence of installation is worth more to some. If you carefully elect your product, or e-mail for help if you're uncertain about what you're looking for/ordering, BSW does a good job streamlining customers to the product they think/know they want. More so, many auto enthusiasts enjoy the "piecing it together" of modifications to build their car in the way they desire, yet are unfamiliar with the pro's and con's regarding various types of speakers, amps, head units, subwoofers, BT/iPhone/iPod units, etc, etc, etc- that fits their car. The catch is, not every person has the time or the drive to research an entire kit piece by piece and speaker by speaker, so to resolve that problem, BSW even offers entirely pre-constructed kits.

I hear you when you are put off by their price, and again that is fair as everyone associates value differently. I personally love the seamless integration of their kits, improved sound quality, and (upon ordering carefully and correctly) the certainty that it will all fit and fire up the first time. Apparently I'm not alone in that either, as one of the BSW reps here in the thread said they are currently dealing with backorders.

I'm sure everything will work out for OP, and similarly, I'm also sure that we'll hear back if it doesn't! ,
-Chris

Originally Posted by 2K5 325i

After some extensive time around BSW equipment, I was impressed with the improved quality over OEM standard speakers and the seamless installs. A few of my friends have BSW stuff in their car, and they were ALL ecstatic with their stuff!


-Chris

Did you intern at BSW last summer?

Is your dad planning to buy the company?

Why do these guesses come to mind?

Originally Posted by Stinger9

Did you intern at BSW last summer?

Is your dad planning to buy the company?

Why do these guesses come to mind?

, no- but they sponsored many BMW meets back when I lived in Atlanta, and a big group of guys from bimmerforums.com all had E39's with speakers giving out, and they went the BSW route. I actually helped some of these friends with installs here and there, and they/we were never disappointed.

Oh...and my dad could buy your dad ,
-Chris

Originally Posted by 2K5 325i

Oh...and my dad could buy your dad ,
-Chris

I'm going to see my dad tonight.
What time should I tell him to report for work in the morning?
Someone's gotta pay for my new BSW system.

Originally Posted by Stinger9

I'm going to see my dad tonight.
What time should I tell him to report for work in the morning?
Someone's gotta pay for my new BSW system.

Is your dad between 4'10" and 6'11", weighing between 85-285lbs?

If so... Manhattan 10th Avenue in the W. 40's around midnight. Tell 'em to dress fashionably slutty.

Not too fashionable... but not too slutty .

If he's lucky, he'll take home a client like Richard Gere .
-Chris

Originally Posted by 2K5 325i

Is your dad between 4'10" and 6'11", weighing between 85-285lbs?

If so... Manhattan 10th Avenue in the W. 40's around midnight. Tell 'em to dress fashionably slutty.

Not too fashionable... but not too slutty
-Chris

Hmmmmm........... My dad does seem to be just your type!

Originally Posted by Stinger9

There are many of us who feel we are held hostage by BSW/BMW because when we try to find upgrade replacements, no one has anything listed. (Crutchfield never considered the e46 market large enough???) BMW seems to have put in odd sizes that will not fit any other speaker universally.
If you don't want to post info that would mightily help many on the public forum, I'd be more than willing to PM you for that information?

Oh, I did not mean to make it sound like a big secret. There are pro's and con's to it though. The biggest issue some seem to have is ditching the OEM head unit. If you do, that, everything becomes simple. They make faceplates that will let you mount any normal sized (single DIN) units in place of the factory head unit.
It is funny that you mention Crutchfield, because they sell these adapters. But, to them, this is considered an advanced install, so they do not push it.
When you install the new head unit, you can buy an adapter that will let you plug in directly between the aftermarket unit, and the BMW connector. The problem is, there is NO room behind there to fit an adapter and the stereo. So, you have to cut off the connector, and wire it in directly.
These 2 things are usually the biggest problem people have with aftermarket stereos. Will it look factory? No. Do you have to cut off a factory wire connector? Yes. If that is a problem, then you are most likely a slave to BSW. If not, then read on.
So, connect the power, ground, and ignition signal wires to the new head unit. This is another part some don't like - you have to ditch the rest of the BMW system as well. That means running a RCA cable from the head unit to the trunk, and adding an amplifier.
If you want simple, there are 5 channel Amps available that can drive the front and rear speakers, and a subwoofer. You can start with just front and rear speakers, and add a sub later.
Now, the speakers. You can get all the sound you need from a pair of 5.25in component speakers in front, and 6.5in component speakers in the rear (you can make 6.5in speakers work in the front doors as well, with a little work). You can mount them in the factory locations. This setup alone will provide more sound, and much cleaner sound, with more bass and more highs than you will get with a factory unit and BSW speakers. And you can easily do it for as much as or less than you will pay for a set of BSW's.
Best of all, you can easily upgrade this set up with more amps, subs, higher grade components, etc, as time goes by. You go with BSW, and you have to pray your factory head unit and amp holds up. That is not a bet I would make on 7-14 year old electronics. Also, once you have installed a full BSW setup, you are done. And not in a good way. You are done because that will be as good as it gets.
All of that was too resstrictivefor me, not to mention the price. I am all for paying for quality, and I don't doubt that BSW's are well made. But the BMW head unit, and amp are not well made. They are cheap. So, the quality of BSW's are wasted on cheap electronics.
The most important thing to remember is that you do not need to replace every single speaker, and that BMW's are no more complicated than any other car after you ditch the factory unit. If you are worried aboud doing it yourself, go to a local car stereo shop, and have them install it. You can still buy all of the components online, and save money there.
PM me if you want more details and specifics.

Originally Posted by 2K5 325i

After some extensive time around BSW equipment, I was impressed with the improved quality over OEM standard speakers and the seamless installs. A few of my friends have BSW stuff in their car, and they were ALL ecstatic with their stuff!

MJ, it seems that you feel "it" could be done for less, which is a totally understandable perspective. I, however, feel like people trust in BSW's products as the majority of their offered items are a relatively simple (and high quality) plug-and-play, and that added ease/confidence of installation is worth more to some. If you carefully elect your product, or e-mail for help if you're uncertain about what you're looking for/ordering, BSW does a good job streamlining customers to the product they think/know they want. More so, many auto enthusiasts enjoy the "piecing it together" of modifications to build their car in the way they desire, yet are unfamiliar with the pro's and con's regarding various types of speakers, amps, head units, subwoofers, BT/iPhone/iPod units, etc, etc, etc- that fits their car. The catch is, not every person has the time or the drive to research an entire kit piece by piece and speaker by speaker, so to resolve that problem, BSW even offers entirely pre-constructed kits.

I hear you when you are put off by their price, and again that is fair as everyone associates value differently. I personally love the seamless integration of their kits, improved sound quality, and (upon ordering carefully and correctly) the certainty that it will all fit and fire up the first time. Apparently I'm not alone in that either, as one of the BSW reps here in the thread said they are currently dealing with backorders.

I'm sure everything will work out for OP, and similarly, I'm also sure that we'll hear back if it doesn't! ,
-Chris

You are their perfect customer.
I am not. Copying the shape of BMW speakers, making them 2 ohm rather than the industry standard 4 ohm, and adding a factory connector is not an "engineered solution". It is exploiting a niche market. If they had to compete with the rest of the aftermarket, they would get smoked. If their technology was that good, don't you think they would branch out to the general aftermarket, even a little bit? They don't, because that would expose them to comparisons with the better brands, independent testing, and product reviews. It is easy to be the premiere brand of BMW replacement speakers, when you are the only one, and your competition is the paper cones in an OEM system.
Hell, I am just sorry I did not get there first. Their pricing indicates that they have you by the short hairs, because they do. And I would do the same. Every time an order came in, I would laugh and say "Can you believe we got another one to buy these?! And it is for a 12 year old e46!!!" And as long as people like you exist, they will do well. I don't mean that in a bad way. They are fvcking marketing geniuses! I would turn every customer upside down, and shake the change from their pockets. And they would still write glowing reviews!
As far as them having great service, I would do the same. I would make it as easy as possible, to prevent potential customers from looking into the greater aftermarket. I would hand deliver the damn things!
But, if you call Crutchfield, and say that you want to rip it all out, and go with an upgraded system, they will be every bit as helpful. The same goes for most local car audio dealers, and a few other online sites.
What BSW does with their customer service is not that special. And if you find their website confusing, and need to call for help, you are probably not a candidate for a DIY system install. Their site is not exactly a Mensa test.
Is the install more work? Yes it is. But it is no different than any other car out there. Once you decide to dump the BMW issued gear, it becomes just another stereo install. You either know how to do it, are willing to learn to do it, or you pay someone to do it. I bought my components, and installed them myself, on my first e46. On my second one, I bought everything online at bargain prices, and paid a shop to do it, because I was simply too busy to do it myself.
If I had one major complaint about BSW, it would be this - their speakers only address 1/3 of the problem. The other 2/3rds being the head unit, and the amp. And as long as you don't improve them, you are severely limited. And at this point, you can not, without ditching the entire system. I do not like paying $900, just to be backed further into the corner BMW created with their system. That is like paying your rapist to use a little lube. You are just $900 deeper into the hole, with no way out. You are forever tied to that substandard, 14 year old technology that BMW gave you, once you invest in these.
Rip it all out, and buy $900 worth of aftermarket stuff, and you will get better sound, and unlimited opportunities to upgrade from there. Hell, you could do it for $600, and still come out with a better system, if you are patient enough to wait for sales, closeouts, and bargain hunting. Given enough time, I would be willing to bet I could do it for $400, or come damn close. And my solution would be infinitely upgradable.
Buying BSW speakers is like buying Michelin Super Sports, and installing them on wheels you know will break if you exceed 50mph. While I may appreciate the technology of the Michelins, I will never be able to utilize them. Their qualities are wasted. Now imagine that they will ONLY fit on those 50mph limit wheels. Why would I bother to invest in the supreme performance of those tires, if I can never exploit their limits? I may as well have Pep Boys Specials on my car, and learn to live with the situation. Or, I could get new wheels, and choose from an entire market full of tires that perform as well as, or better than the Michelins, because I am only limited by my budget.
BSW's are not only lipstick on a pig. They applied the lipstick on the wrong end of the pig.

Originally Posted by MJLavelle

Oh, I did not mean to make it sound like a big secret. There are pro's and con's to it though. The biggest issue some seem to have is ditching the OEM head unit. If you do, that, everything becomes simple. They make faceplates that will let you mount any normal sized (single DIN) units in place of the factory head unit.

Best outline and summary of the possibilities I have ever read.
Thanks!

Originally Posted by MJLavelle

You are their perfect customer.
I am not.

Sums all of this up pretty well! We have hundreds of satisfied customers on this board, and have been in business for 8+ years at this point. We offer plug and play upgrades that provide a significant improvement over the factory speakers that even those with the most basic of experience of working on cars can install, and do not require any wire splicing or modification to the vehicle. This is desirable for a lot of BMW owners, as it allows them to skip on paying a shop for the install and keep the cost down in that regards. Most just want to replace their tired factory components and do not have any desire to rewire anything, change the head unit, or do custom mounting. Can you go further than our system and get your vehicle sounding even better? Absolutely! Can you do that without having to change out the headunit/amplifier and rewire the car/modify the door panels to accept aftermarket components? No you can not, and that is where we come in. Different strokes for different folks.

OK, here's the skinny on my speaker drama. Shortly after I posted the initial pseudo negative post on not hearing back from BSW, Halston posts to this thread. About a week after that, I emailed him directly and asked specifically, "was the speaker system in stock for my car, a 1999 E46 323I". I was told emphatically, that they were. Armed with this information, I ordered the speakers (I got my 10% military discount as well.
A few days later, I hear back from them thanking me for the order, blah, blah, blah. After reading additional correspondance, I came across one that caught my eye, something to the tune of, your item may be shipped 7-10 days pending packaging or some crap like that. Imagine my horror seeing this after I'd been told the stuff was in stock. I then email Halton and asked him to call, no dice. I get another email and this time am told that the speakers (tweeters) are on back order and are expected to their store in 4-6 weeks. WTF!!! So maybe 6-8 weeks to me? How the hell is this business still afloat?

I am canceling my order tomorrow.

All I want is to replace damn speakers to go with my new DYNAVIN head unit and as it was a direct plug and play for my car,I need speakers to compliment the unit. Someone help me and help me spend my money with a company that ain't gonna jack me around!!!!

Not good faith business practices.

Inexcusable behavior and communication.

Good to share this information on this board.

Originally Posted by NIQUE69

OK, here's the skinny on my speaker drama. Shortly after I posted the initial pseudo negative post on not hearing back from BSW, Halston posts to this thread. About a week after that, I emailed him directly and asked specifically, "was the speaker system in stock for my car, a 1999 E46 323I". I was told emphatically, that they were. Armed with this information, I ordered the speakers (I got my 10% military discount as well.
A few days later, I hear back from them thanking me for the order, blah, blah, blah. After reading additional correspondance, I came across one that caught my eye, something to the tune of, your item may be shipped 7-10 days pending packaging or some crap like that. Imagine my horror seeing this after I'd been told the stuff was in stock. I then email Halton and asked him to call, no dice. I get another email and this time am told that the speakers (tweeters) are on back order and are expected to their store in 4-6 weeks. WTF!!! So maybe 6-8 weeks to me? How the hell is this business still afloat?

I am canceling my order tomorrow.

All I want is to replace damn speakers to go with my new DYNAVIN head unit and as it was a direct plug and play for my car,I need speakers to compliment the unit. Someone help me and help me spend my money with a company that ain't gonna jack me around!!!!

I apologize for the miscommunication. The packages have been on backorder for quite some time and the information relayed was supposed to read you would be put in line for the order. Billed when they shipped. I apologize this will not work out for you.

As said the order will not be billed until it ships. We extended the military discount and our shipping special. We would be happy to hold your spot in line and get them shipped as soon as they arrive. We actually shipped many orders last week as the first batch came in. Almost 100 speaker packages. More are en route!

Just let me know how you would like to proceed.

Originally Posted by Stinger9

Not good faith business practices.

Inexcusable behavior and communication.

Good to share this information on this board.

Simply was a case of miscommunication. My fault for not relaying in a complete manner for what would happen. I am human and make mistakes. However we do fix the in all instances. As Jeremy said we have been on this forum for a long time and as we expand and grow(meaning more customers) there are more issues. Simply is going to happen.

We strive to fix them and have everyone end up happy. I understand our solutions are not for you and that is fine.

Originally Posted by Stinger9

Not good faith business practices.

Inexcusable behavior and communication.

Good to share this information on this board.

Simply was a case of miscommunication. My fault for not relaying in a complete manner for what would happen. I am human and make mistakes. However we do fix the in all instances. As Jeremy said we have been on this forum for a long time and as we expand and grow(meaning more customers) there are more issues. Simply is going to happen.

We strive to fix them and have everyone end up happy. I understand our solutions are not for you and that is fine.

Truly thanks for your sponsorship here.

I welcome your participation here.
Problem is when you don't show up.
It is always valuable to keep the conversation open and ongoing. That's the way the problems get solved.

Originally Posted by MJLavelle

You are their perfect customer.
I am not. Copying the shape of BMW speakers, making them 2 ohm rather than the industry standard 4 ohm, and adding a factory connector is not an "engineered solution". It is exploiting a niche market. If they had to compete with the rest of the aftermarket, they would get smoked. If their technology was that good, don't you think they would branch out to the general aftermarket, even a little bit? They don't, because that would expose them to comparisons with the better brands, independent testing, and product reviews. It is easy to be the premiere brand of BMW replacement speakers, when you are the only one, and your competition is the paper cones in an OEM system.
Hell, I am just sorry I did not get there first. Their pricing indicates that they have you by the short hairs, because they do. And I would do the same. Every time an order came in, I would laugh and say "Can you believe we got another one to buy these?! And it is for a 12 year old e46!!!" And as long as people like you exist, they will do well. I don't mean that in a bad way. They are fvcking marketing geniuses! I would turn every customer upside down, and shake the change from their pockets. And they would still write glowing reviews!
As far as them having great service, I would do the same. I would make it as easy as possible, to prevent potential customers from looking into the greater aftermarket. I would hand deliver the damn things!
But, if you call Crutchfield, and say that you want to rip it all out, and go with an upgraded system, they will be every bit as helpful. The same goes for most local car audio dealers, and a few other online sites.
What BSW does with their customer service is not that special. And if you find their website confusing, and need to call for help, you are probably not a candidate for a DIY system install. Their site is not exactly a Mensa test.
Is the install more work? Yes it is. But it is no different than any other car out there. Once you decide to dump the BMW issued gear, it becomes just another stereo install. You either know how to do it, are willing to learn to do it, or you pay someone to do it. I bought my components, and installed them myself, on my first e46. On my second one, I bought everything online at bargain prices, and paid a shop to do it, because I was simply too busy to do it myself.
If I had one major complaint about BSW, it would be this - their speakers only address 1/3 of the problem. The other 2/3rds being the head unit, and the amp. And as long as you don't improve them, you are severely limited. And at this point, you can not, without ditching the entire system. I do not like paying $900, just to be backed further into the corner BMW created with their system. That is like paying your rapist to use a little lube. You are just $900 deeper into the hole, with no way out. You are forever tied to that substandard, 14 year old technology that BMW gave you, once you invest in these.
Rip it all out, and buy $900 worth of aftermarket stuff, and you will get better sound, and unlimited opportunities to upgrade from there. Hell, you could do it for $600, and still come out with a better system, if you are patient enough to wait for sales, closeouts, and bargain hunting. Given enough time, I would be willing to bet I could do it for $400, or come damn close. And my solution would be infinitely upgradable.
Buying BSW speakers is like buying Michelin Super Sports, and installing them on wheels you know will break if you exceed 50mph. While I may appreciate the technology of the Michelins, I will never be able to utilize them. Their qualities are wasted. Now imagine that they will ONLY fit on those 50mph limit wheels. Why would I bother to invest in the supreme performance of those tires, if I can never exploit their limits? I may as well have Pep Boys Specials on my car, and learn to live with the situation. Or, I could get new wheels, and choose from an entire market full of tires that perform as well as, or better than the Michelins, because I am only limited by my budget.
BSW's are not only lipstick on a pig. They applied the lipstick on the wrong end of the pig.

I understand what you are saying but your analogy of BSW applies to many aftermarket companies. Many who are well respected and have been around a long time. Is every company that makes a catback that just bolts on crooks? Or leaving all engineering on the table... and just shaking out the pennies? You can buy a catback and bolt it on. Or you can build a exhaust in your garage for a 1/2 or maybe even a 1/3 of the cost of the catback. You could even skip building it yourself and just piece the parts you want together and have a shop build it. This would still save money.

So is the catback a bad solution? Are the vendors and companies that make and sell the kit crooks? I don't think so. It's a different customer. I am a DIY type guy and my E30 has a full custom exhaust. I did parts myself and a shop did some of it. I sourced all the parts and piping. I have done this on my last couple of E30s. My buddy is in school, works and loves his E30. He doesn't have the time or the skill level so he bought a catback(quite expensive for an E30) and we bolted it on. I love my exhaust. He loves his. I wouldn't say he was ripped off or should have gone another route.

Again it's different strokes for different folks. Some people have a lot of time for car modding projects and some have less time. You can always make or do your own thing at an increased or decreased cost. People's time is worth a different amount. We offer a solution that has been very popular and we have many happy customers. It was never aimed, and never has been, to those wanting a full custom system. I have said this thousands of times on phone calls and emails to potential customers. Just like if someone calls in and says they had 3 JL twelves in their SUV and now has an X5. Would they like our x108 subwoofer system? Probably not.