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Suspension & Braking Forum by BimmerWorld
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:06 PM   #41
Stinger9
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Also add that Dinan says not torquing the wheel bolts properly can warp rotors.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:21 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by E46Mango View Post
No offense, but the highlighted statement in bold tosses all credibility out the window. All... of... it. And rotors for all intents and purposes don't warp.
I'll go you one further; there are so many misstatements and myths in his post that it tires me just to think about beginning to dissect the points one by one. Rather than create a tome, I'll caution anyone reading his post to use the claims as a guideline to research the 'facts'. My belief is that the research will uncover that whatever is stated will be proven to the opposite. Do the math yourself non-believers!
Cross-drilled rotors brake better? In who's universe?
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:15 AM   #43
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For the record, warped rotors are a relatively rare condition that can really only occur in the following conditions:

1. Very hot rotors and suddenly going through a very deep puddle

2. Bent wheels, and the rotor eventually conforming to the wheel wobble from heat

Most brake vibration comes from hot spots and excessive pad buildup in one location. When you get cementite on your brake rotors, it's near impossible to remove without simply shaving off a layer of the rotor.

The best way to prevent wheel vibrations is to not brake too hard, and if you do brake hard, do not hold the brakes at a complete stop. You'd need to go get some good heat buildup for this to happen, and I'd argue that you're more likely to get that problem in mountainous areas...or if you drive like a complete asshat all the time

I noticed you went from asking questions and advice to giving solid definitive lessons on just about everything under the sun rather quickly

Uhm honestly I don't really agree with some of what you said. especially the part about avoiding vibrations by avoiding braking hard. I've always used my brakes super hard (especially in mountainous areas ) and never had a problem with vibrations. ever. that includes my 325ci with smaller brakes. solid, stable, precision braking under all circumstances. BMW brakes are large enough as to not promote overheating/pad deposits unless you're using sh!t pads and/or rotors.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:11 AM   #44
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You requested pics so I gave them and didn't get much feedback
Your rotors look very bad. I would guess your pads are worn all the way down. It is obvious you need new pads, and either turned rotors, or new ones, depending on how worn down they are. I would just get new rotors.
So, the first path of action would be to replace them, and report back.
If you have more money, then it would be advisable to change your control arms and FCAB's. You say they are not worn, but it is not always easy to tell. The original FCAB's contain oil inside them. As soon as the bushing wears enough, this leaks out. So, it may look fine, but it is not. Based on the age and milage, I would say you need them.
So, you have a plan of action that I don't think anyone would dispute:
Replace pads and rotors
Drive the car, and report back
Or, go ahead and replace the control arms and bushings at the same time
Drive the car and report back.
Most likely, this plan would fix 95% of "wheel vibration under braking" problems.
If it does not, then it is time to look at the less likely components. But people can speculate all day, based on their own personal experiences. But regardless of all the various suggestions, you need to fix the basics first. You need new brake pads and rotors. You need to get them bedded in. Your control arms are fairly suspect too, but it is up to you to decide if you want to do them as well, or wait to see what happens when you replace the brakes
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:46 AM   #45
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Again, when/how you experience the vibration is the most important thing. Also describe the intensity. The missing wheel bolt could cause balancing problems but not exclusively under braking. (if thats in fact when you're feeling it)

Also yes you can't "trust" any hand test, but very serious/obvious problems can AND will show up by simply moving the part with your hand. I've moved control arms and trailing arms by hand before where the bushings were shot. very obvious movement.

I'd be willing to bet your control arm bushings weren't installed correctly and/or are defective. Walk me through the history of the control arms and bushings. Who installed them, how installed, etc.

Get Meyle CABs.
Let's not start with Meyle vs. Lemforder again

I installed everything myself paying extra attention to the 29.1cm distance between the center of the inner ball joint to the edge of the bushing as described in the TIS. Bushings were pressed in with a 20/1 water/dish-soap solution. I like to do things correctly.

But you're right in that the bushing may have come already defective. Next time, I'll go with either solid bushings, like Treehouse (nothing feels like these), or simply Powerflex polies. So much for rubber bushings for me...

OP, sorry about the hijacking (if you really think so). I thought we might be sharing the same problem, hence the reason I posted. Good luck with your problem.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:11 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by E46Mango View Post
I noticed you went from asking questions and advice to giving solid definitive lessons on just about everything under the sun rather quickly

Uhm honestly I don't really agree with some of what you said. especially the part about avoiding vibrations by avoiding braking hard. I've always used my brakes super hard (especially in mountainous areas ) and never had a problem with vibrations. ever. that includes my 325ci with smaller brakes. solid, stable, precision braking under all circumstances. BMW brakes are large enough as to not promote overheating/pad deposits unless you're using sh!t pads and/or rotors.
That's cause I google stuff. All the solutions I ever come up with come from just googling things, which tend to link to this forum. I have no clue if they're right or wrong half the time, unless I see lots of other people saying the same thing...unless they also got that information from the same post I found and are repeating it as well.

I was going to say "as if braking like during the bed-in process," but I forgot. Basically what I was trying to say is, you're more prone to vibrations if you stand on the pad right after doing lots of hard braking. Getting them hot and driving normally won't cause many problems.

I basically trust posts made by you, other people, and...well yeah everyone except GoingNuts

I'm certainly no mechanic by any means, but I follow enough from what I read here to make sure my car runs well and can DIY most fixes. I figure if I can do that, anyone can, and I used to be like a bull in a china shop when it came to fixing things.

I just legitimately like trying to help people, and I also love my car. I'm on here most of the day because class is 9AM-5PM, and we use computers the whole time for programming...I usually come on here when we're done with an exercise and we're waiting for everyone else to finish. Then we have homework to do after that usually takes a long time afterwards, so I'm still here That's why you'll see me posting things a lot, whether it's advice or an attempt to help or being a sarcastic dickbag (because lol, internet). I just post things that I would do. I mean no harm to no one.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:16 AM   #47
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Let's not start with Meyle vs. Lemforder again

I installed everything myself paying extra attention to the 29.1cm distance between the center of the inner ball joint to the edge of the bushing as described in the TIS. Bushings were pressed in with a 20/1 water/dish-soap solution. I like to do things correctly.

But you're right in that the bushing may have come already defective. Next time, I'll go with either solid bushings, like Treehouse (nothing feels like these), or simply Powerflex polies. So much for rubber bushings for me...

OP, sorry about the hijacking (if you really think so). I thought we might be sharing the same problem, hence the reason I posted. Good luck with your problem.
I'm thinking if somebody torqued your wheel bolts enough to strip one out, they might have actually bent something.

I sort of agree with the OP, thread highjacking is a bad thing, but I can't resist since it is on my mind, and might be relevant. I know soon I'll want to replace my fcab. My thinking is to replace with what the car came with. They have lasted 10 years and seem to work fine. I don't mind replacing every ten years. The BMW ones are designed to balance comfort and performance. I like that balance. I'm wondering about solid/poly bushings - sure they might last longer, and will be tighter, but they might also give up comfort. I really like the sport/luxury balance bmw does.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:45 AM   #48
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I'm thinking if somebody torqued your wheel bolts enough to strip one out, they might have actually bent something.

I sort of agree with the OP, thread highjacking is a bad thing, but I can't resist since it is on my mind, and might be relevant. I know soon I'll want to replace my fcab. My thinking is to replace with what the car came with. They have lasted 10 years and seem to work fine. I don't mind replacing every ten years. The BMW ones are designed to balance comfort and performance. I like that balance. I'm wondering about solid/poly bushings - sure they might last longer, and will be tighter, but they might also give up comfort. I really like the sport/luxury balance bmw does.
My first idea is that you should use oe if that is what you choose. Of course.
But just note that I have the Powerflex CAB's for the last 40K miles and we cannot tell the difference in NVH from stock sport suspension that my coupe came from the factory with. They are not even close to being uncomfortable.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:44 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Zell View Post
That's cause I google stuff. All the solutions I ever come up with come from just googling things, which tend to link to this forum. I have no clue if they're right or wrong half the time, unless I see lots of other people saying the same thing...unless they also got that information from the same post I found and are repeating it as well.

I was going to say "as if braking like during the bed-in process," but I forgot. Basically what I was trying to say is, you're more prone to vibrations if you stand on the pad right after doing lots of hard braking. Getting them hot and driving normally won't cause many problems.

I basically trust posts made by you, other people, and...well yeah everyone except GoingNuts

I'm certainly no mechanic by any means, but I follow enough from what I read here to make sure my car runs well and can DIY most fixes. I figure if I can do that, anyone can, and I used to be like a bowl in a china shop when it came to fixing things.

I just legitimately like trying to help people, and I also love my car. I'm on here most of the day because class is 9AM-5PM, and we use computers the whole time for programming...I usually come on here when we're done with an exercise and we're waiting for everyone else to finish. Then we have homework to do after that usually takes a long time afterwards, so I'm still here That's why you'll see me posting things a lot, whether it's advice or an attempt to help or being a sarcastic dickbag (because lol, internet). I just post things that I would do. I mean no harm to no one.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:46 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by SeanC View Post
Let's not start with Meyle vs. Lemforder again

I installed everything myself paying extra attention to the 29.1cm distance between the center of the inner ball joint to the edge of the bushing as described in the TIS. Bushings were pressed in with a 20/1 water/dish-soap solution. I like to do things correctly.

But you're right in that the bushing may have come already defective. Next time, I'll go with either solid bushings, like Treehouse (nothing feels like these), or simply Powerflex polies. So much for rubber bushings for me...

OP, sorry about the hijacking (if you really think so). I thought we might be sharing the same problem, hence the reason I posted. Good luck with your problem.
Well other people have recently installed OE/OEM bushings and have had some bad luck with brand new ones causing vibrations. YMMV. Seems like you're refusing to go with Meyle just because they're Meyle. 30,000 rock solid miles on my car so far. You're welcome to ride in my car and i'll stand on the brakes from 100 mph to 0 and you tell me if you notice any vibrations.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:53 AM   #51
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I find it helpful to use the interval of getting a new girlfriend to break up as a good indicator on when to change your brakes. A granny driver will probably be more clingy and have longer lasting brakes and relationships where a hot-head M3 driver swaps a new one every few month or so.
Although for me they usually don't last longer than a tank of gas. The longest I had was a oil change.
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