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Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:50 PM   #21
MachRc
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Originally Posted by Bdave View Post
It will be a real eye opener. Years ago I got a ride in a Stage 3 HPF on pump and meth. I stepped right out of that car (within 5 minutes)into an AA SC car that supposedly did an honest 500rwhp on the dyno. It literally felt like a stock M3. I kept asking if there were any boost problems. The comparison is dramatically in favor of the turbo car.
There have been scores of guys who go from SC to turbo, but only one documented case of somebody going from a turbo to a SC'd car. That is telling also.
I am still to this day wondering why I ever bothered Super Charging my car instead of just waiting until I had the funds available to do it right.
Its quite true, some sc'd cars do feel like stock cars until you get into 4k-5k and up.

Its like super VTEC.

If you don't really get on it, it can feel very normal~

Some don't mind as when you don't push the car, the car behaves just like stock and added progressive power later in the power band keeps it very predictable and very easy to modulate and extract all the power for street and track use.

But very different from the turbo delivery, as superchargre boost build progressively so does the expectations of POWER, where as the turbo build boost that impresses your pants off.


I personally am looking to update to a turbo in the coming years after my car passes the 50k mark. But I am in no way feeling lack of power even at a paltry 6psi on my clutched blower.

Ive talked to a few owners(2) that have driven both and like the nice powerful delivery of an AA stg 2 renegade kit/ESS over a turbo kit, as they see power as not everything.

of course its all personal opinion, but any FI kit is better than no kit.
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:01 PM   #22
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Charlie says he wants his car back MEOOWWW!!!!
Lol Charlie's got a 10 sec car now!
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:48 PM   #23
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Its quite true, some sc'd cars do feel like stock cars until you get into 4k-5k and up.

Its like super VTEC.

If you don't really get on it, it can feel very normal~

Some don't mind as when you don't push the car, the car behaves just like stock and added progressive power later in the power band keeps it very predictable and very easy to modulate and extract all the power for street and track use.

But very different from the turbo delivery, as supercharger boost build progressively so does the expectations of POWER, where as the turbo build boost that impresses your pants off.


I personally am looking to update to a turbo in the coming years after my car passes the 50k mark. But I am in no way feeling lack of power even at a paltry 6psi on my clutched blower.

Ive talked to a few owners(2) that have driven both and like the nice powerful delivery of an AA stg 2 renegade kit/ESS over a turbo kit, as they see power as not everything.

of course its all personal opinion, but any FI kit is better than no kit.
All true.

Big time HPDE guys (some of them) prefer the linear build of power for the track...more predictable corner exits, less chance of spinning out when the turbo hits and so on.
But that notion is being put to the test by variable boost set ups(turning the boost DOWN on some tracks) and running high compression set ups(as in the current HPF track car configuration) with a turbo vs the traditional low compression pistons. Better bearings, more power out of smaller turbos(faster spool up from smaller turbos), and other improvements are gaining more fans of the turbo as a more desirabale tool on HPDE courses. Passing virtually all the SC'd cars doesnt hurt the turbo image either.

Note also that the max HP is held over a much larger RPM range than a SC'er.
Adrenaline junkies need look no further than that visceral feeling a strong turbo gives.

Just for the record Some "purists" insist on no FI what so ever for their HPDE cars.

The bottom line is what makes YOU happy. It's YOUR money like the TV ad says. LOL
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:41 AM   #24
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Big time HPDE guys (some of them) prefer the linear build of power for the track...more predictable corner exits, less chance of spinning out when the turbo hits and so on.
I will second that one. My friend and I were on a road course, I'm a ESS Twinscrew supercharged 330 and my friend has a 135i with a chip. He was slowly started to pull away from me and next thing I knew I passed him while he was deep into the tire wall.

Unfortunately, his turbos kicked in a little harder than anticipated that turn and spun him out into the tire wall. 3 grand worth of damages later....

But my personal preference would be turbo as well, but love my supercharger. Like somebody else mentioned, some boost is better than no boost.
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:17 PM   #25
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I have done both AA Gen 3 Stage 2 S/C and turboed. The difference everyone is talking about with the turbo is the torque figures. The difference in torque from stock to the supercharger was a small gain. The difference from the supercharger torque to turbo torque was doubled with 5psi boost.

Ignore my actual power figures because it's not the same as American HP but this was my experience:

The AA S/C I was making 380rwhp @ 12psi. Felt good and would only wheelspin second gear a bit at 7000+rpm.

When I first did the turbo setup I had next to no timing on boost and it was rich as just so I could take it for a drive on 5 psi boost before I got it on the dyno to check it. I went for a drive with a mate and hit it and the thing just blew the tyres from 3500rpm to the limiter in second. We were both giggling like school girls thinking this thing must be making massive power even now untuned. Got it down to the dyno and ran it up as it was and it made 200hp. That's right less than a stock car. Seat of your pants feel it was like it was making double the horsepower than the S/C setup. No, what it was doing was making double the torque of the S/C setup. I ended tuning it and making 350whp @ 5psi on the turbo at the start of the turbo project and it felt like a monster compared to the S/C setup. Looking at the horsepower figures you wouldn't think the difference would of been so great with the S/C having more horsepower, but the doubling of the torque was where it was at. Would of punished the same S/C car in a straight line race even with less horsepower.

Anyway my point is if you have had turbo cars and your use to the torque of a turbo car if you go the S/C route you will end up getting bored of it quickly and wish you had more. As stated though the S/C linear power and not the insane torque of the turbo makes them a lot easier to punch round a circuit quicker.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by 02PRUV View Post
I have done both AA Gen 3 Stage 2 S/C and turboed. The difference everyone is talking about with the turbo is the torque figures. The difference in torque from stock to the supercharger was a small gain. The difference from the supercharger torque to turbo torque was doubled with 5psi boost.

Ignore my actual power figures because it's not the same as American HP but this was my experience:

The AA S/C I was making 380rwhp @ 12psi. Felt good and would only wheelspin second gear a bit at 7000+rpm.

When I first did the turbo setup I had next to no timing on boost and it was rich as just so I could take it for a drive on 5 psi boost before I got it on the dyno to check it. I went for a drive with a mate and hit it and the thing just blew the tyres from 3500rpm to the limiter in second. We were both giggling like school girls thinking this thing must be making massive power even now untuned. Got it down to the dyno and ran it up as it was and it made 200hp. That's right less than a stock car. Seat of your pants feel it was like it was making double the horsepower than the S/C setup. No, what it was doing was making double the torque of the S/C setup. I ended tuning it and making 350whp @ 5psi on the turbo at the start of the turbo project and it felt like a monster compared to the S/C setup. Looking at the horsepower figures you wouldn't think the difference would of been so great with the S/C having more horsepower, but the doubling of the torque was where it was at. Would of punished the same S/C car in a straight line race even with less horsepower.

Anyway my point is if you have had turbo cars and your use to the torque of a turbo car if you go the S/C route you will end up getting bored of it quickly and wish you had more. As stated though the S/C linear power and not the insane torque of the turbo makes them a lot easier to punch round a circuit quicker.
Very nice.

Not sure if anyone mentioned Gus's whip. 6766 on a HPF stage 2 setup, talk about a WIDE power band that never drops off. That's gotta be fun!

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...highlight=6766

I spoke with proEFI and SAADracing though. Both again have great customer service. ProEFI sounds like the engine management of the future, especially with this flex fuel option. SAAD racing also has a kit coming out here in several months so it'll be nice to see that thing in action before pulling the trigger on anything. With the way this turbo technology is advancing, the longer you wait, the better bang for your buck you'll get . I've never been one to show patience unfortunately lol.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:19 AM   #27
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I've never been one to show patience unfortunately lol.
Join the club, wait if you want to while we each enjoy what we can afford at the time! Seems like your hardest decision is choosing who's Turbo kit to go with. HPF / SAAD Racing or Maximum PSI
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:38 AM   #28
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Join the club, wait if you want to while we each enjoy what we can afford at the time! Seems like your hardest decision is choosing who's Turbo kit to go with. HPF / SAAD Racing or Maximum PSI
You can say that again. I'd like to reiterate how helpful and positive you guys have been. You always take a chance starting a thread such as this for it to turn into a d*ck measuring contest or bash. With a support system such as this my FI M3 is only a matter of time . 'Hopefully' it'll be some time before I pull the plug but I'll keep you guys updated and since I'll be installing it myself I may start an install thread. Stay tuned.
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:45 PM   #29
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Just a little update...I've heard back from SAAD Racing, ProEFI, HPF, Maximum PSI, and Technique Tuning. No complaints thus far. Turbo is definitely the way to go but which company to go with is no easy decision. Looks like Maximum PSI has the closest to what my current goals are. There setup runs the stock DME, and clutch and still nets you about 450 rwhp. Not sure on the turbo size or brand yet...I'd love to go custom and get my hands on a Precision 6766 and run very low boost and bring it up as I get more comfortable with the car.

...am I the only one who makes turbo sounds in your N/A car while driving alone...speed is an addiction, and I'm an addict...
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Old 09-21-2012, 03:27 PM   #30
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This is a little off topic but I'm hoping some of you are still on board with this thread... I woke up this morning and thought to myself. Why am I about to spend close to 20k on my M3 when all I'm going to be doing with it is highway pulls, very occasional track days, and mountain runs (which will be even more dangerous with the extra power). I cherish my M too much to make it a dedicated track car even though it would be great at it, I won't do it. Then I thought, I do still have my rx7, it is already setup for a turbo...why not spend not even half the money and have a 500-600 rwhp rx7 that weights nearly 800lbs less, use it as a track car and just enjoy my M3 just like I do now the way it is?

For those of you who have multiple boosted vehicles, why did you choose to force induct your M3? Is it a status thing, does it have a unique feel to it other, just because you're a boss like that, etc.? My motivation is to have something that you don't see every day and to have a ride that excites me almost to the point of scaring me when I drive it...that's my motivation for a high hp machine.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:00 PM   #31
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I turbo'd both my M and non-M. It started with the M. I just love E46s period so I thought why not just make it as fast as you can and have fun with it. So I did. Do not regret at all for Turbo'ing both of them. Best car upgrade ever.
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