ZHP Steering Rack Mod

Originally Posted by SeanC

I have no problems accepting the ratios being the same, or the part being the same for that matter. However, my experience, after driving both 02+ cars and ZHPs, is that there is a difference that I cannot associate the feel with the arms or shocks or any other suspension component up front. I have replaced shocks, arms, sway bars, etc. on the BMWs that I have owned, and I think I know exactly what to expect from each one individually. I also replaced the steering box on my wife's older 5er touring, and my expectation before and the feel after the install matched perfectly.

I would love to hear from a non-ZHP owner about the steering feel who had the ZHP arms and shocks installed on their car. Can't believe nobody did these mods...

As I said, the rack can be the same (thus no confusion at the factory), but there have been discussions about additional hydraulic lines and/or retrofit kits when people were having racks installed on their ZHPs. Any comments about those? I'd love to hear more. Maybe there is still some unexplored territory here.

You're asking people to validate your beliefs with their opinions. Obviously you will have mixed results. Bottom line is all part numbers are the same (I just triple checked RealOEM)

Believe what you want to. But fact is all non-M 02+ E46s have identical parts for steering.

Sounds like nobody is going to convince you otherwise.

Originally Posted by peytonracer4

Somebody PLEASE post a pic of the number tag on their non zhp rack. I'll post a pic of the number tag on my "zhp" rack. Supposedly the zf numbers are different

Been done on Bimmerfest a billion times. Go check.

Originally Posted by E46Mango

Been done on Bimmerfest a billion times. Go check.

That's weird. I searched and couldn't find anything other than threads like this.

Originally Posted by peytonracer4

That's weird. I searched and couldn't find anything other than threads like this.

If I have time this week, I'll play along.

Originally Posted by peytonracer4

Somebody PLEASE post a pic of the number tag on their non zhp rack. I'll post a pic of the number tag on my "zhp" rack. Supposedly the zf numbers are different

Been done a number of years ago

Non-ZHP: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=65

ZHP: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=82

Only other thing I can think of... is the ZHP/M3 wheel smaller in diameter compared to the ZSP wheel? That would make for a difference in steering feel

Originally Posted by TerraPhantm

Been done a number of years ago

Non-ZHP: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=65

ZHP: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=82

zhp38467 - peytonracer - SeanC

Originally Posted by E46Mango

zhp38467 - peytonracer - SeanC

I was never a true arguer for either side. I like to stay objective.
What are the numbers stamped in? Not the BMW part number.

0303 and 0405 are the respective build dates. Not sure about the first set of stamped numbers - I would assume some sort of serial number. I've never seen that particular number match on any two ZHP or non ZHP steering racks.

Originally Posted by TerraPhantm

Been done a number of years ago

Non-ZHP: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=65

ZHP: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=82

Only other thing I can think of... is the ZHP/M3 wheel smaller in diameter compared to the ZSP wheel? That would make for a difference in steering feel

Not smaller, but thicker as far as i know. Smaller would definitely make a difference.

Originally Posted by SeanC

Are you 15 years old? Those pictures are from the thread I linked above, which I have also contributed to 4 years ago. What were you doing back then, learning how to change your oil?

What's your point? Do you still believe you have evidence stating the zhp rack is different?

Originally Posted by SeanC

Not smaller, but thicker as far as i know. Smaller would definitely make a difference.

So many things could change the feel "to you" between 330s:
Thicker Alcantara/Leather wheel
Worn tie rods
Worn Control Arms
Worn Control Arm Bushing
New zhp Control Arms
New zhp shocks(dampers) compared to worn shocks
18x7.5/18x8.5 staggered Wheels to 17x7.0 square or 17x7.5/17x8.5 Sport staggered
Tire Pressure
Tire Brand/Model
Frt Standard 205/50/17 or Sport 225/45/17 to 225/40/18
Rr Standard 205/50/17 or Sport 245/40/17 to 255/35/18
early 2001 steering rack of 15.5 to later 330 13.7
over boosted steering rack pump

but now we're really going off on a tanget.

Originally Posted by SeanC

Point is he needs to stop acting like a teenager, and actually post something useful. I asked him to post a picture of his rack, but instead all he's doing so far is quoting somebody else (which I was already aware of since 2008) and being a sidekick.

I said I was willing to accept that the rack could be same, however the issue why ZHP's steering is unique is still not understood IMO.

Why would Mango's car be any different from any other 02-05 330i? That picture in that thread should be evidence enough to show that the steering racks are not part of the equation.

According to RealOEM, one of the pressure hoses was changed for MY2003 (09/2002), so perhaps that accounts for some of the difference. But otherwise it will come down to the pieces Alex323ci mentioned.

Honestly, I'm thinking the difference just comes down to the obscene weight of the ZHP wheels, the control arms, and the tires. Those are the only differences in the front axle of a ZHP and ZSP built at the same time.

Originally Posted by Alex323Ci

So many things could change the feel "to you" between 330s:
Thicker Alcantara/Leather wheel
Worn tie rods
Worn Control Arms
Worn Control Arm Bushing
New zhp Control Arms
New zhp shocks(dampers) compared to worn shocks
18x7.5/18x8.5 staggered Wheels to 17x7.0 square or 17x7.5/17x8.5 Sport staggered
Tire Pressure
Tire Brand/Model
Frt Standard 205/50/17 or Sport 225/45/17 to 225/40/18
Rr Standard 205/50/17 or Sport 245/40/17 to 255/35/18
early 2001 steering rack of 15.5 to later 330 13.7
over boosted steering rack pump

but now we're really going off on a tanget.

These would affect the feel of "tightness" to me, but not "quickness".

Originally Posted by TerraPhantm

Why would Mango's car be any different from any other 02-05 330i? That picture in that thread should be evidence enough to show that the steering racks are not part of the equation.

According to RealOEM, one of the pressure hoses was changed for MY2003 (09/2002), so perhaps that accounts for some of the difference. But otherwise it will come down to the pieces Alex323ci mentioned.

Honestly, I'm thinking the difference just comes down to the obscene weight of the ZHP wheels, the control arms, and the tires.

I am not saying his car is any different. I did ask him to post something useful, i.e. a picture of his rack, he didn't reply. Then he goes and quotes you guys, and calls people's names out

I did not know about the pressure hose change. Does it apply to all 03+ cars or just the ZHPs?

Originally Posted by SeanC

These would affect the feel of "tightness" to me, but not "quickness".

Proof it's quicker? Everything I've seen indicates that both models have the same turns lock to lock (2.7 turns) and both have the same turning radius (34.4 ft). By definition, the steering ratio must be the same if those two points are true.

Originally Posted by SeanC

I am not saying his car is any different. I did ask him to post something useful, i.e. a picture of his rack, he didn't reply. Then he goes and quotes you guys, and calls people's names out

I did not know about the pressure hose change. Does it apply to all 03+ cars or just the ZHPs?

Seems to apply to all 03 cars. But at least when the ZHP debuted, most impressions seemed to be from people with 01 and 02s test driving the new ZHPs

Originally Posted by TerraPhantm

Proof it's quicker? Everything I've seen indicates that both models have the same turns lock to lock and both have the same turning radius. By definition, the steering ratio must be the same if those two points are true.

Well, this is the point that we're discussing. If I, or you had clear cut proof, then we would be doing something else. About the pumps being different, here's what I found (BravoXray guy has a ZHP):

Originally Posted by BravoXray

It's a 2004. And thx for the catch on my putting the wrong URL. It's the one referred to earlier in the thread. I went ahead and made an appointment with the dealership to have them look at it and check into the PUMA note. When I search on RealOEM by VIN, the LUK 20 is listed.

Originally Posted by essi1553

Ha I was under the impression that the 2002+ used the 30 pump, but maybe because it's a ZHP they decide to use a less power assisted pump, keep me updated.

Originally Posted by BravoXray

Thought I ought to follow up on the results of all the research.

I ended up stopping by the dealer to see if they knew about the PUMA note. They were very helpful even though they knew I wouldn't be having the pump replaced there. They verified it was the pump (kinda obvious given the amount of noise it was making) and mentioned I would need to to replace the banjo bolt at the same time. They hadn't heard of any serious issues, but replacing the pumps wasn't unheard of either.

Well, I took it to my guy to do the actual work. I just don't have the time anymore for a job this big, and as an aircraft mechanic he is super meticulous. Well, he found that most of the lines were in pretty bad shape. The pressure hose (32416774215) cost $270! I noticed that realoem lists the same PUMA note for it. I have a feeling that note is to make sure the service tech checks all the parts (lines, pump, check valves, and rack) at once.

My mechanics thought on it is the leaking lines actually suck in air, which causes excessive wear on the pump leading to eventual failure. So, just a word to everyone here. Get any power steering issues taken care of right away while they are still maintenance issues.

Oh, and on a side note... It looks like the power steering pump models are:
pre 09/01 - LUK LF 20 - 32416760036
09/01 to 09/02 (?) - LUK LF 30
post 09/02 - LUK LF 20 - 32416760034 <- yeah, that's right a different part number for the same model pump.
There was a thread over on E46fanatics about it.

That thread he linked is an interesting read as well: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=418419

Well I know for sure my zhp was 2.7 turns lock to lock. And there are a couple videos on bimmerfest (probably in the same thread) which show both zhp and non-zhp require 2.7 turns. I'm pretty sure the ZHP does not have a tighter turning circle than other E46s, but I have not measured this.

With regards to the PS pump - that'll effect tightness, not quickness.

Originally Posted by SeanC

Are you 15 years old? Those pictures are from the thread I linked above, which I have also contributed to 4 years ago. What were you doing back then, learning how to change your oil?

Ridiculous. Just two weeks ago you got schooled by this "noob" and ran away with your tail between your legs Then you came back and publicly apologized. I don't claim to be an expert on anything by any stretch of the imagination, but as far as ignorance when it comes to the E46 and cars in general, you absolutely take the cake. Should I link some of your material?

Originally Posted by SeanC

Point is he needs to stop acting like a teenager, and actually post something useful. I asked him to post a picture of his rack, but instead all he's doing so far is quoting somebody else (which I was already aware of since 2008) and being a sidekick.

I said I was willing to accept that the rack could be same, however the issue why ZHP's steering is unique is still not understood IMO.

Point is YOU need to stop trying to force your opinions on people despite being showing evidence that you're wrong. You sound and act exactly like GoingNuts when he kept trying to dig and dig and dig despite the entire forum telling him he was wrong. This went on page after page when finally someone said enough is enough and shut it down.

And I don't have all the time in the world like you do. Yeah right like I'm going to stop my life to put my car up on jackstands so I can confirm (again) that you're wrong. I'll do it when it's convenient and when I show that the rack is the same, you'll again publicly apologize to everyone, especially me for your direct whining

Fair?

Originally Posted by SeanC

^Calm down. And yes, you claim to be the expert on everything when all I'm doing is trying to understand things better. And when I'm wrong, and I said this again and again, I don't mind publicly apologizing. After all, what's wrong with that? Apparently for you, it's your pride. Take it easy a little. Not everything's that serious on the internet.

When I challenge the current knowledge of the matters, you take it all personal. And with posts calling people out and using words like "schooling", etc. you really show your real age. Grow a pair.

I asked you a simple thing to do, and I was not expecting to put your car on ramps right away, but you could have at least responded positively, which you haven't done. Instead, when Terra posted pictures, you were so happy and you acted like a kid. Truth of the matter was, I'd already known about those pictures, however wanted to see more. Who knows what has been done to those cars' racks?

The extent of your knowledge about e46, or cars in general as you put it, does not go beyond recommending an entire cooling system change when an O-ring might be the issue. Apparently you do not have the knowledge, nor experience to do a proper diagnosis. What's the point of forums then? And what's next with your logic? Are you going to recommend replacing the entire car when it's bumper falls down?

Also, great job with goingnuts comment.

Someone's mad

You asked two days ago. On that same day I said I would take a picture. Two days later you point the finger and say "YOU DIDN'T POST PICTURES OF UR RACK!!"

If all it took was to do a simple google search to answer your questions, then why couldn't you do that?

From the beginning, I said this information has been discussed for YEARS across various forums. You're a little late to the party.

Originally Posted by SeanC

"someone's mad". I thought you have been around long enough to have figured it out that it is the guy who's really mad who posts that first

Ok, about the exceprt I quoted above: I didn't want to bring this up before, but you seem to have a problem with perception of time.

First of all, when you (yet again) brought up the issue where I was wrong about the ZHP arms, you said it was "just two weeks" ago. The thread started back in May, and the issue was resolved mid-July.

Second, you didn't reply to my post AT ALL when I asked you to take a picture of your rack, which was on the 22nd, 3 days ago, not 2. It was NOT me, but peytonracer who asked about it yesterday to the forum, not to you specifically, to which you replied by saying that you would if you could this week.

I mean, that is if I don't have a reading comprehension, in which case, I apologize

Ooh, 3 days. Not 2. I stand corrected on that. Like I said, I don't have time to lift my car and take a picture of my steering rack. Are you kidding me? I'll do it when I have the car up next time (which may be within the next week)

Calm down, ZHP boy.