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Suspension & Braking Forum by BimmerWorld
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:36 PM   #21
Bayerische E46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drift.mechanic View Post
Honestly there is no issue using an aluminum control arm. Problem would be the angle if the tip of the control arm (specifically the portion where the ball joint is).
I wouldn't risk it. If the aluminum control arm was cast that way, then fine, but to cut, weld, etc. No thanks.

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Originally Posted by IrocThe325i View Post
how do these change roll center?

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^ Well, that's what I was thinking of - I guess it exists.

By the way, OP, is this going on a street car?
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:40 PM   #22
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SLR is the only kit made in the us, everything else is from the uk.

Please read the review thread I created after my buying experience before placing an order.
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:42 PM   #23
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I wouldn't risk it. If the aluminum control arm was cast that way, then fine, but to cut, weld, etc. No thanks.



^ Well, that's what I was thinking of - I guess it exists.

By the way, OP, is this going on a street car?
yeh but i track it

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Old 09-30-2012, 04:45 PM   #24
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SLR is the only kit made in the us, everything else is from the uk.

Please read the review thread I created after my buying experience before placing an order.
im not to concerned with bump steer as much as roll center. the feels so much better at a higher ride height but looks so much better lower. just wanna get the best of both worlds.

why cant they make something as simple as a ball joint spacer?

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Old 09-30-2012, 04:46 PM   #25
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For those who are discarding the OEM aluminum control arms, Judd racing uses the OEM M1 arms with spherical bearing on their 600whp V8 powered M1 du to class restrictions.

They haven't broken anything in 2 years
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:47 PM   #26
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A ball joint spacer won't allow for the tapered section of the ball joint stud to sit properly in the knuckle.
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:52 PM   #27
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A ball joint spacer won't allow for the tapered section of the ball joint stud to sit properly in the knuckle.
space the ball joint out of the control arm rather the tapered stud into the knuckle?

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Old 09-30-2012, 05:08 PM   #28
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For those who are discarding the OEM aluminum control arms, Judd racing uses the OEM M1 arms with spherical bearing on their 600whp V8 powered M1 du to class restrictions.

They haven't broken anything in 2 years
Do you mean 1M?
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:19 PM   #29
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why cant they make something as simple as a ball joint spacer?
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Originally Posted by drift.mechanic View Post
A ball joint spacer won't allow for the tapered section of the ball joint stud to sit properly in the knuckle.
I think it could be done.

Take a cylinder, machine a matching female conical seat, and a matching female thread to the control arm ball joint. Put wrench flats on the cylinder, and then you can tighten the "spacer" onto the ball joint. At the other end cylinder, give it an external thread and conical seat just like the ball joint. Mount everything like normal.

You would have a minimum length because the entire ball joint would need to fit within the spacer, but any ideas why that wouldn't work?
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:25 PM   #30
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I think it could be done.

Take a cylinder, machine a matching female conical seat, and a matching female thread to the control arm ball joint. Put wrench flats on the cylinder, and then you can tighten the "spacer" onto the ball joint. At the other end cylinder, give it an external thread and conical seat just like the ball joint. Mount everything like normal.

You would have a minimum length because the entire ball joint would need to fit within the spacer, but any ideas why that wouldn't work?
i had this idea before and someone told me the ball joints are pressed in from underneath?

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Old 09-30-2012, 05:30 PM   #31
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i had this idea before and someone told me the ball joints are pressed in from underneath?

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Yeah, the ball joints are like a cone with a threaded stud on top of them. You put the threaded stud through the kingpin, put a nut on the other side, and when you tighten down the nut, the cone gets pulled into a mating seat in the kingpin, which locates everything very accurately, and prevents any movement.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:41 PM   #32
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Yeah, the ball joints are like a cone with a threaded stud on top of them. You put the threaded stud through the kingpin, put a nut on the other side, and when you tighten down the nut, the cone gets pulled into a mating seat in the kingpin, which locates everything very accurately, and prevents any movement.
so this wont work?

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Old 09-30-2012, 05:57 PM   #33
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so this wont work?

Attachment 471815

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Not a very good option, but would work I think. You would have to remove the press fit ball joint from the control arm without damaging either item, press fit the space, ball joint, and control arm all back together without damaging anything again, and then you'd have to undo everything if you ever bend your control arm or need to replace a ball joint. A large washer isn't going to work to hold the spacer in because it won't be a tight enough fit, I don't think the bottom of the control arm is flat enough, and you decrease your clearance to the wheel barrel more.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:30 PM   #34
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Not a very good option, but would work I think. You would have to remove the press fit ball joint from the control arm without damaging either item, press fit the space, ball joint, and control arm all back together without damaging anything again, and then you'd have to undo everything if you ever bend your control arm or need to replace a ball joint. A large washer isn't going to work to hold the spacer in because it won't be a tight enough fit, I don't think the bottom of the control arm is flat enough, and you decrease your clearance to the wheel barrel more.
this is a pita.

i just want to go lower and keep my factory suspension geometry!!! is this so much to ask!!!??

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Old 09-30-2012, 06:58 PM   #35
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this is a pita.

i just want to go lower and keep my factory suspension geometry!!! is this so much to ask!!!??

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First figure out how much lower you want to move the outer control arm ball joint. That's a good start.
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:48 PM   #36
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inch. thats eyeballing from stock height to where im at now.

my control arms are pretty much flat maybe slighty up

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Old 10-01-2012, 08:29 AM   #37
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Sorry I had a house warming party yesterday and couldn't follow anymore.

As for machining basically a ball joint extension like mentioned above, the issue would be with the angle the control arm would now be at. Picture a 4" spacer between the ball joint port on the knuckle and the control arm, that is now your weakest link due to shear forces, the control arm would most likely interfere with the disk as well. The number one issue for companies making this kit is for the control arm portion surrounding the ball joint, hitting the disks. Just because it doesn't touch when static, bushing deflection, and general flex would distort the arm enough to hit the arm.

There are only 3 ways to go about this, when I get back in an hour or so, I'll draw something up and share.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:04 AM   #38
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Sorry I had a house warming party yesterday and couldn't follow anymore.

As for machining basically a ball joint extension like mentioned above, the issue would be with the angle the control arm would now be at. Picture a 4" spacer between the ball joint port on the knuckle and the control arm, that is now your weakest link due to shear forces, the control arm would most likely interfere with the disk as well. The number one issue for companies making this kit is for the control arm portion surrounding the ball joint, hitting the disks. Just because it doesn't touch when static, bushing deflection, and general flex would distort the arm enough to hit the arm.

There are only 3 ways to go about this, when I get back in an hour or so, I'll draw something up and share.
okay thanks

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Old 10-01-2012, 10:16 AM   #39
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is roll center effected by only the angle in which the control arm pushes against the inner bushings???

so if the control arm had a bend in it to counter the overall angle upward would that fix it?

orrr is it the point of force's height relative to the mounting locations of the control arm.

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Old 10-01-2012, 01:35 PM   #40
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idea!!! what if u cut the balljoint area of the control arm and install a sleeve with the proper provisions for a sperical rod end???

are stock control arms solid or hollow?

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