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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 10-02-2012, 02:12 PM   #21
boostedisbetter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david05111 View Post
Who the heck are you? Definitely a troll. Are you 12? Does your knowledge of firearms exist entirely from Call of Duty?

A). OP said he couldn't afford an AR right now. A Benelli M1014 (the military designation for the M4) is expensive. Really expensive. An M4 is somewhere between $1400 and $1800 normally. A M1014 is even more so, because they're fairly rare to find one marked as such.

B). I would take a Remington 870 over a Benelli M4 any day. And I own both. Both are outstanding weapon systems, but when shit hits the fan, the 870 will cycle ANYTHING. They are bulletproof. A Glock, an 870, and an AK would be a person's dream when facing any and all elements; they're ultra reliable.



OP: Do a search and read around at some of the other similar topics that have been posted in this sub forum before. Take advice with a grain of salt. The people who you should rely on are a short list: Reedo302, GlockMan, JonJon, Serbonze, Adam@Euro-Spec, Tailo, and maybe myself. There are a few others who know their stuff as well, but there are also trolls like this fool who I quoted who are grossly misinformed and really will hand you poor advice.

The search will open your eyes a bit, but I will make a few points.

1). Do not buy a shotgun. For one, it has a questionable reputation as the gun of choice for home defense. The reality is that it over-penetrates, has limited capacity, and is the most complex weapons system. Another thing is that if you want to learn to shoot, this is not the gun for you. I think you'll find it difficult to find a range that will let you shoot the thing consistently (other than a skeet/trap range) and it's not going to help much with basic marksmanship.

2) That leaves a handgun, an AR, or some other long gun/rifle. Now, you said that the AR is cost prohibitive at the moment. I get that, but you can start off cheap. There are quality AR platforms available for less than $700 (S&W M&P 15 Sport). And you might be surprised to know that many consider the AR platform to be ideal for home defense, as it doesnt really over-penetrate and its a simpler system to learn and implement.

Handguns are great; they're the standard for personal defense. However, there are many pitfalls, including buying a cheap weapon or buying the wrong weapon for you based off some preconceived notion of what is good or cool. A quality weapon will cost you anywhere for $400-$1000 and up. Depending on where you fit on that scale, you may find that an AR is not out of reach.

Lastly, you could go with a simple long gun to start. It would most likely be chambered in .22LR. The ammo is super cheap and recoil is almost non-existent. A rifle like this would really hone your marksmanship skills and give you a solid foundation from which to grow. The other great thing is that this is the cheapest option. You could pick up a solid bolt action for between $75 and $150 and a semi-auto like a Ruger 10-22 or a M&P 15-22 for between $250 and $400. You could shoot it ALOT; 500 rounds of .22 is something like $20.


3). Go to the range and take a basic safety class to start, maybe something one-on-one with an instructor for an hour. Some might not agree with me on this, but based on what I've read it seems appropriate. You seem uncertain on how firearms function, bordering on nervousness to use one. Your time witn a rifle will benefit you, but there are many different weapon systems and a handgun is more complex than a traditiknal hunting rifle. I think an hour or so with an instructor would really benefit you. He could explain exactly how a handgun or a rifle operates, what all the controls do, and give you a rundown on some basic shooting techniques. You'd have fun and you'd feel much more confident.


4). After taking the course, find a place that rents firearms and have a blast. Try as many as you can or at least the ones that look appealing. Try one in each of the 3 big calibers (9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP) to get a feel for what you like and what you don't. when you select a firearm to rent, ask the clerk to go over it's controls with you and ask if there's anything unique or unusual about it; they'll be happy to help. You want to make sure that you know what everything does and feel confident about your ability to handle it when you enter the range.


5). Once you've done that, come back to us here. Make yourself a list of what firearms you like and maybe some you didn't like. Post that list here and we'll be happy to go over it with you and help you make a choice. Combined, the 7 of us I listed earlier have well over 100 years of practical firearms experience with varying backgrounds from Law Enforement to everyday carrying citizens. Get crackin' on reading some more stuff on the board and get to the range to take that 1 hour instruction and rent some guns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbonze View Post
That would be an excellent sticky post.


Home defense:

-Go to www.galleryofguns.com
-Click on "Davidson's specials"
-Find the Moss 500 with pistol grip + shoulder stock + 18.5" barrel + LONG barrel.
-BUY IT and have it shipped to an FFL for ~$300 bucks. You have the option of selling the long barrel for ~$100


This is what I did as my first gun and it is for sure the way to go. I've put over 500 rounds through it with no jamming or sign of fault. I do clean my guns after every shoot though-which you should do with ANY gun....

Once you have your Moss, that will itch the scratch that you have right now for about a month lol. Then you are gonna want another one, and another, and another, etc... During the time you are cleaning, modding, and learning your moss, you should constantly be doing research of different pistols and rifles, it helps to learn your round types and calibers too.

Go to a range and see if they have a flat fee to shoot ANY of the guns, and make sure you can switch up guns without a fee. Try as many different brands as you can.

It's a fun and addictive hobby. Have fun!
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:15 PM   #22
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True, you also can have it gifted to you
An arrangement like that would still be a straw purchase though, no?
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:16 PM   #23
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An arrangement like that would still be a straw purchase though, no?
nope. Dad buys gun from FFL, turns around and hands it to son.

Legal (Although, I'd wait until you got home) lol

"Straw Purchase" isn't even a real law... It's a marketing slogan.

The real crime is lying on Fed 4473 Q.(12a) or transferring a firearm without using an FFL (When required by state or federal law)
Neither one applies in this scenario
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 10-02-2012, 02:21 PM   #24
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Legal (Although, I'd wait until you got home)
TECHNICALLY lol
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:22 PM   #25
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TECHNICALLY lol
Although its 100% legal... a lot of people (FFLs and police) don't know the law and might get upset
Plus you need to consider not only transfer laws, but transport and possession.
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 10-02-2012, 02:34 PM   #26
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Although its 100% legal... a lot of people (FFLs and police) don't know the law and might get upset
Plus you need to consider not only transfer laws, but transport and possession.
I can finally just go buy my guns, and take them home same day now-hells yes~!
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:36 PM   #27
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i can finally just go buy my guns, and take them home same day now-hells yes~!
21?
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:39 PM   #28
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21?
lol no, 26, but in Florida we usually have a 3 biz day waiting period for any gun purchased from a dealer, UNLESS you have your CWP (just made a thread about getting it )
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:42 PM   #29
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lol no, 26, but in Florida we usually have a 3 biz day waiting period for any gun purchased from a dealer, UNLESS you have your CWP (just made a thread about getting it )
Nice! But that's so backwards

So a NICS check isn't as good as a BGC on a CCW? lol
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 10-02-2012, 02:44 PM   #30
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Nice! But that's so backwards

So a NICS check isn't as good as a BGC on a CCW? lol
It honestly makes ZERO sense.

Though we have a lot of laws here that make no sense... Not to mention the JOKE of a concealed class they hold at the suncoast gun shows...
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:09 PM   #31
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Nice! But that's so backwards

So a NICS check isn't as good as a BGC on a CCW? lol
Still need the NICS check if you have the CWP, just not the wait (in Florida).

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I do clean my guns after every shoot though-which you should do with ANY gun....
I disagree. You can talk to precision shooters that will tell you that cleaning after every shoot will actually cause a decrease in accuracy. ARs do not need to be cleaned after every shoot either. I just finally cleaned mine after about 2,000 rounds. I really can't remember the last time I cleaned my Glock. If you change that that to lubricate before every shoot, I would agree with you.
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:11 PM   #32
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just filled out my ccw app. gotta go in and get printed and crap.
then they process it. i guess that takes 4 or so weeks. lame
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:20 PM   #33
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I disagree. You can talk to precision shooters that will tell you that cleaning after every shoot will actually cause a decrease in accuracy. ARs do not need to be cleaned after every shoot either. I just finally cleaned mine after about 2,000 rounds. I really can't remember the last time I cleaned my Glock. If you change that that to lubricate before every shoot, I would agree with you.
I guess "clean your gun" is different for everyone though. I never use the metal brush on my guns, I just think it's too abrassive... I normally just take a rag and clean the slide and internals with some hoppe's on it, use the pads w/ hoppe's for the barrel, and clean any built up carbon with a plastic scraper. Then LIGHTLY apply some hoppe's oil to the moving parts.

I can't see how the way I clean it would decrease it's accuracy... I understand if someone is using something really abrassive, as clearances would increase. Also, I guess it depends how many rounds you put through the gun in one session.
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:53 PM   #34
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I TRY to clean them after every shoot but really only my CQB gets the most attention and thats just a couple of patches soaked in motor oil pushed down the barrel.

I completly ignor my SMG, I just dump oil on the bolt and barrel face when it starts jamming. I cleaned it for the first time at 3300 rounds.





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Old 10-02-2012, 06:21 PM   #35
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I TRY to clean them after every shoot but really only my CQB gets the most attention and thats just a couple of patches soaked in motor oil pushed down the barrel.

I completly ignor my SMG, I just dump oil on the bolt and barrel face when it starts jamming. I cleaned it for the first time at 3300 rounds.





Are you going to have any issue finding a new barrel for that thing? Or are there plenty of places that make them?

I know I can get a new barrel for my M16...and loads of new uppers haha
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:08 PM   #36
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I just finished a Trident Concepts Combat Carbine Level 2 course this weekend. My 11.5" SBR AR is now sitting at a little over 6,000rds since the last time I cleaned it. I am considering cleaning it at work in the ultrasonic cleaner, but that's only because I want to switch to FrogLube to do a year of shooting with that to compare it to what I use now, which is Slip2000 EWL. Otherwise, I wouldn't be cleaning this thing. Point being, cleaning a gun isn't as critical as people make it out to be. However, it's also a personal decision and one that everyone needs to make for themselves.

As far as what's been said- almost everyone has stated the right info. A good semi auto pistol in a 9mm or larger, or a revolver in .357mag are the best options for a compact option. A pump shotgun is a good option, but more cumbersome in confined spaces. It's also easier to keep a pistol next to your bed and still have it locked up in a lock box or electronic gun vault. Shotguns are not as easy, but if you're good with installing stuff and you do some shopping, you can find some options. I have a 7.5" PDW AR15 in my closet locked up but accessible, with ammunition specifically designed for that barrel length. I also have a 9mm pistol ready to go with a weaponlight on it. My wife knows to grab the 9mm when I'm not home. It's much easier for her than a shotgun or rifle. It's pretty easy to point and shoot. Food for thought.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:21 PM   #37
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I just finished a Trident Concepts Combat Carbine Level 2 course this weekend. My 11.5" SBR AR is now sitting at a little over 6,000rds since the last time I cleaned it. I am considering cleaning it at work in the ultrasonic cleaner, but that's only because I want to switch to FrogLube to do a year of shooting with that to compare it to what I use now, which is Slip2000 EWL. Otherwise, I wouldn't be cleaning this thing. Point being, cleaning a gun isn't as critical as people make it out to be. However, it's also a personal decision and one that everyone needs to make for themselves.

As far as what's been said- almost everyone has stated the right info. A good semi auto pistol in a 9mm or larger, or a revolver in .357mag are the best options for a compact option. A pump shotgun is a good option, but more cumbersome in confined spaces. It's also easier to keep a pistol next to your bed and still have it locked up in a lock box or electronic gun vault. Shotguns are not as easy, but if you're good with installing stuff and you do some shopping, you can find some options. I have a 7.5" PDW AR15 in my closet locked up but accessible, with ammunition specifically designed for that barrel length. I also have a 9mm pistol ready to go with a weaponlight on it. My wife knows to grab the 9mm when I'm not home. It's much easier for her than a shotgun or rifle. It's pretty easy to point and shoot. Food for thought.
You'd go deaf/blind using that 7.5 AR inside haha
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:38 PM   #38
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You'd go deaf/blind using that 7.5 AR inside haha
No kidding. I can't wait until suppressors are legal in MN. It's only there until I can get my 9" .300BLK. Looking at either 130gr SOST loads, 110gr Barnes TTSX, 125gr Accu-Tip or 220gr OTM subsonic for an HD load. Initial ballistics show the TTSX load is heavily over-penetrating though, so it might go out the window. Otherwise, I may look at developing a load with the Hornady 155gr AMAX or Remington 150gr Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded bullets. Will need to do my own chrono and gelatin testing, though.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:30 PM   #39
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No kidding. I can't wait until suppressors are legal in MN. It's only there until I can get my 9" .300BLK. Looking at either 130gr SOST loads, 110gr Barnes TTSX, 125gr Accu-Tip or 220gr OTM subsonic for an HD load. Initial ballistics show the TTSX load is heavily over-penetrating though, so it might go out the window. Otherwise, I may look at developing a load with the Hornady 155gr AMAX or Remington 150gr Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded bullets. Will need to do my own chrono and gelatin testing, though.
You gonna go with an AAC or Noveske upper? I've been looking at one myself, Noveske makes an 8 and 10 inch; AAC makes a 9 inch.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:32 PM   #40
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I'd get the AAC. I get a really good discount with the AAC. 9" is about perfect for the .300BLK. I would otherwise look at the 10" Noveske and build it as a Mk18 with the Daniel Defense FDE Mk18 rail.
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