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Old 10-03-2012, 10:03 AM   #21
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On topic: Yes, per Visa and other card issuers and processors, a merchant can set a minimum charge amount on credit, but not debit, cards, with a $10 maximum limit.

You can refuse to shop there.

Another little gem: They are NOT allowed to "see your ID," as their only requirement from the processor is to check to see if the signature on the charge slip matches the signed card. They can refuse to accept the transaction if the card is not signed, or has one of those cutesy "check ID" message written on the signature line. But if they ask you "may I see your ID," just say "no." If they refuse to accept a valid, signed card for a merchandise or service charge on a terminal-swiped card, they are violating their processing agreement, banking laws, and probably even federal privacy laws. No one outside of Homeland Security or a commissioned law-enforcement officer gets to see your ID... especially not a $8-an-hour clerk at some retail store...
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:11 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by BoogetyBoogety View Post
On topic: Yes, per Visa and other card issuers and processors, a merchant can set a minimum charge amount on credit, but not debit, cards, with a $10 maximum limit.

You can refuse to shop there.

Another little gem: They are NOT allowed to "see your ID," as their only requirement from the processor is to check to see if the signature on the charge slip matches the signed card. They can refuse to accept the transaction if the card is not signed, or has one of those cutesy "check ID" message written on the signature line. But if they ask you "may I see your ID," just say "no." If they refuse to accept a valid, signed card for a merchandise or service charge on a terminal-swiped card, they are violating their processing agreement, banking laws, and probably even federal privacy laws. No one outside of Homeland Security or a commissioned law-enforcement officer gets to see your ID... especially not a $8-an-hour clerk at some retail store...
So how exactly do you explain alchohol sales requiring 21 years or older show ID?
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:21 AM   #23
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So how exactly do you explain alchohol sales requiring 21 years or older show ID?
Alcohol/tobacco sales require proof of age. That is a totally-separate transaction from the credit/debit card sale. Nice try...
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:23 AM   #24
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Alcohol/tobacco sales require proof of age. That is a totally-separate transaction from the credit/debit card sale. Nice try...
You said "NO ONE"....
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:26 AM   #25
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Here's a bright idea: use cash.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:30 AM   #26
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So how exactly do you explain alchohol sales requiring 21 years or older show ID?
Paying for something with cash =/ buying age restricted items.
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:23 AM   #27
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So you're a guy that loves to brag about working for Visa but that had to come to a car forum to get a merchant services question answered. Nice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogetyBoogety View Post
On topic: Yes, per Visa and other card issuers and processors, a merchant can set a minimum charge amount on credit, but not debit, cards, with a $10 maximum limit.

You can refuse to shop there.

Another little gem: They are NOT allowed to "see your ID," as their only requirement from the processor is to check to see if the signature on the charge slip matches the signed card. They can refuse to accept the transaction if the card is not signed, or has one of those cutesy "check ID" message written on the signature line. But if they ask you "may I see your ID," just say "no." If they refuse to accept a valid, signed card for a merchandise or service charge on a terminal-swiped card, they are violating their processing agreement, banking laws, and probably even federal privacy laws. No one outside of Homeland Security or a commissioned law-enforcement officer gets to see your ID... especially not a $8-an-hour clerk at some retail store...
Please name the banking laws that violates.


This whole current merchant services situation is ridiculous. The lack of competition amongst the providers, the general homogeny of the banks, the widely varied business needs of the merchants, the card users need for continuity and govt meddling has just made a mess of the whole thing.
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:33 AM   #28
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Why are you asking us if you work for Visa?
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:36 AM   #29
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So you're a guy that loves to brag about working for Visa but that had to come to a car forum to get a merchant services question answered. Nice.





Please name the banking laws that violates.


This whole current merchant services situation is ridiculous. The lack of competition amongst the providers, the general homogeny of the banks, the widely varied business needs of the merchants, the card users need for continuity and govt meddling has just made a mess of the whole thing.

Yes.

I also got my $75 back from a company that booted my car wrongfully when I called them claiming to be a reporter for the AJC investigating predatory parking enforcement.

Be more results oriented, the world runs on it.

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Old 10-03-2012, 12:15 PM   #30
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You will accept payment in the form of debit per your merchant agreement, or I will come by, every day, and report you until you play ball.

F that I will to make a point. If you want to participate in the CC/Debit taking business, you will play by the rules.

This is not up for debate. It's in Visa's merchant agreement in black & white lol.

Here is what would happen if your dumb azz started this in my store...


1. I would have you trespassed after your second little outburst.

2. I would have you fired by calling VISA myself and explaining to them why
.....me and everyone in my networking circle of store owners is going to quit
.....taking VISA because of their employee harassment from you.

3. I would kick you in the balls.


Loser.


PS - There is nothing wrong with asking for ID. Ever hear of charge backs?
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:34 PM   #31
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I dont go to stores that place a minimum or charge a fee for CC. Especially when they charge a fee, or are charging more for gas. A business having a credit card is not required but is a luxury for the business. With that luxury comes cost. It is a cost of business. If they have a problem with the charges, stop accepting CC's and go back to cash only, then see how slow your business becomes.

There is sub shop that I used to frequent near my house, the last time I went there were signs stating that there is a .35 fee for CC use. I refuse to go back there unless I have cash which is rare. Imagine if they didnt accept CC's, how many people would not go there. They have lost my business.

The CC brings people into the business, it should already be factored into the price, as well as the electricity bill, or marketing costs.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:47 PM   #32
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Please name the banking laws that violates.
If the credit card is backed by a Bank, each financial institution has an affirmative and continuing obligation to respect the privacy of its customers and to protect the security and confidentiality of those customers' nonpublic personal information. They are not going to be asking some clerk to jeopardize that by having their client provide ID (with home address in plain sight) during a credit or debit card transaction.

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Originally Posted by GlockMan View Post
Here is what would happen if your dumb azz started this in my store...


1. I would have you trespassed after your second little outburst.

2. I would have you fired by calling VISA myself and explaining to them why
.....me and everyone in my networking circle of store owners is going to quit
.....taking VISA
because of their employee harassment from you.
You would persuade your fellow merchants to stop taking credit cards (or at least, Visa?)? Wow. You'd be pissing off customers forever just to prove a stupid point. That's an asinine comment and threat, which any intelligent person would see is nothing but bullshˇt on your part.

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Originally Posted by GlockMan View Post
PS - There is nothing wrong with asking for ID. Ever hear of charge backs?
There are NO chargebacks to the Merchant if the Merchant follows procedure: Swiped card, signature compared and matched, receipt issued. Look at your Agreement, if you have any doubts. You are NOT allowed to ask for ID if you are a Merchant processing a charge. Don't believe me if you want, but that's the way your Processing Agreement is worded.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:59 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by BoogetyBoogety View Post
If the credit card is backed by a Bank, each financial institution has an affirmative and continuing obligation to respect the privacy of its customers and to protect the security and confidentiality of those customers' nonpublic personal information. They are not going to be asking some clerk to jeopardize that by having their client provide ID (with home address in plain sight) during a credit or debit card transaction.



You would persuade your fellow merchants to stop taking credit cards (or at least, Visa?)? Wow. You'd be pissing off customers forever just to prove a stupid point. That's an asinine comment and threat, which any intelligent person would see is nothing but bullshˇt on your part.



There are NO chargebacks to the Merchant if the Merchant follows procedure: Swiped card, signature compared and matched, receipt issued. Look at your Agreement, if you have any doubts. You are NOT allowed to ask for ID if you are a Merchant processing a charge. Don't believe me if you want, but that's the way your Processing Agreement is worded.
I would not stop taking VISA, I just would complain to VISA about one of their azzhole employees who keeps harassing me. Who do you think would win that battle?

I will debate the ID thing until the day I die.

If someone takes an unsigned credit card and signs it and walks into a store and charges $5k worth of video games, I can assure you that store is getting charged back.

I don't care what the user agreement says. The fact is, I would have to eat it when it gets charged back.

As a matter of fact.... how exactly are you suppose to prove that the signatures matched BTW?

Did it ever occur to anyone that the problem IS VISA/MC/AMEX and not the merchant. The fact is, if they did not charge a per transaction fee, the merchant would not need to set a minimum charge.

The banks and credit cards are the ones screwing everyone, not the merchant that takes it. What does the merchant get? NOTHING. Actually LESS THAN NOTHING. They get charged fees to accept it.
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:30 PM   #34
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I would not stop taking VISA, I just would complain to VISA about one of their azzhole employees who keeps harassing me. Who do you think would win that battle?

The cardholder. Read your Processing Agreement carefully.

I will debate the ID thing until the day I die.

If someone takes an unsigned credit card and signs it and walks into a store and charges $5k worth of video games, I can assure you that store is getting charged back.

Exactly wrong. The Bank would be notified by the Cardholder of the fraudulent charge, and after the investigation to determine the validity of the transaction, which would include an authentic signature, the cardholder would be made whole. The Merchant, having accepted matching signatures, would be off the hook. The Merchant would only be charged if the card was not physically swiped through their machine. Read your processing Agreement carefully.

I don't care what the user agreement says. The fact is, I would have to eat it when it gets charged back.

Not true. Read your processing Agreement carefully.

As a matter of fact.... how exactly are you suppose to prove that the signatures matched BTW?

Your responsibility on a swiped card begins and ends when you compare signatures. Read your processing Agreement carefully.

Did it ever occur to anyone that the problem IS VISA/MC/AMEX and not the merchant. The fact is, if they did not charge a per transaction fee, the merchant would not need to set a minimum charge.

The banks and credit cards are the ones screwing everyone, not the merchant that takes it. What does the merchant get? NOTHING. Actually LESS THAN NOTHING. They get charged fees to accept it.
The Merchant has the ability to increase his business exponentially by moving beyond a cash-only business, and is able to provide accommodations and courtesies to his customers that a cash-only business would be unable to match. You do pay a fee for that privilege. If you want to protect yourself from chargebacks, as I said above and as your Processing Agreement clearly states:

Swipe the card through your terminal (capturing the validation information), compare signatures, provide a receipt to the customer. Period. Read your processing Agreement carefully.
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:43 PM   #35
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Or he can just tell you that his credit machine is broken and you have to pay by cash.

Charging by credit is a privilege, not a right. There's no law that requires him to let you pay by card.

And of course visa is going to say it's wrong to charge a minimum. They want to make money on every $1 transaction.
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogetyBoogety View Post
On topic: Yes, per Visa and other card issuers and processors, a merchant can set a minimum charge amount on credit, but not debit, cards, with a $10 maximum limit.

You can refuse to shop there.

Another little gem: They are NOT allowed to "see your ID," as their only requirement from the processor is to check to see if the signature on the charge slip matches the signed card. They can refuse to accept the transaction if the card is not signed, or has one of those cutesy "check ID" message written on the signature line. But if they ask you "may I see your ID," just say "no." If they refuse to accept a valid, signed card for a merchandise or service charge on a terminal-swiped card, they are violating their processing agreement, banking laws, and probably even federal privacy laws. No one outside of Homeland Security or a commissioned law-enforcement officer gets to see your ID... especially not a $8-an-hour clerk at some retail store...
Referring to VISA's process agreement with the merchant?

I'm curious if this applies here in Canada as well. There have been a number of times where I've been asked to show ID with a credit card.
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:49 PM   #37
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Yes.

I also got my $75 back from a company that booted my car wrongfully when I called them claiming to be a reporter for the AJC investigating predatory parking enforcement.

Be more results oriented, the world runs on it.
LOL @ you ing about merchants "violating the MS agreement" and then lying to get what you want. Clearly integrity is huge for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted_ZHP View Post
I dont go to stores that place a minimum or charge a fee for CC. Especially when they charge a fee, or are charging more for gas. A business having a credit card is not required but is a luxury for the business. With that luxury comes cost. It is a cost of business. If they have a problem with the charges, stop accepting CC's and go back to cash only, then see how slow your business becomes.

There is sub shop that I used to frequent near my house, the last time I went there were signs stating that there is a .35 fee for CC use. I refuse to go back there unless I have cash which is rare. Imagine if they didnt accept CC's, how many people would not go there. They have lost my business.

The CC brings people into the business, it should already be factored into the price, as well as the electricity bill, or marketing costs.
There is a fundamental pricing question that faces all businesses. Spreading costs over all customers vs charging individual customers for the specific costs incurred doing business with them. There is no absolutely correct answer.

But what you're advocating is that ALL customers bear the costs the business incurs by accepting plastic from SOME customers. That sounds great when you're a plastic user, but not so great when you're a cash user.

Airlines face it all the time. They can raise ticket prices for everyone, or they can charge more to those that cost the airline more by charging for checked bags, oversize luggage, two seats for humongous passengers, etc.

Would you suggest that all octanes of gas cost the same? I mean, the cost of all the product should just be factored into the price, right?

Before you say "they're different", the real answer is "what is the customer willing to pay for?". Sometimes it's tangible, sometimes it's not. In the case of higher octane gas, the customer is willing to pay for the different product. In the case of paying by plastic, the customer is willing to pay for the convenience/security of not carrying cash. In the case of tipping the doorman to bypass the line at the club, the customer is willing to pay to get in earlier.

Now, having said all that, I dealt with plenty of business owners/managers who IMHO consistently underestimated the costs involved in cash simply because they didn't see an invoice for it. But cash has to be counted into the drawer, change counted out of the drawer, the drawer has to be balanced at EOD, the drawer has to be counted into the safe, big bills have to be exchanged for small bills and coin, the safe has to be counted, deposits have to be compiled, deposits have to be picked up by armor or taken to the bank. Cash is easily stolen, easily miscounted, people pass counterfeits,

So I personally think many merchants aren't being realistic when they charge more to accept plastic. If they really looked hard at the hard and soft costs involved with cash handling, I think they'd see it was costing them about the same % as taking plastic (accounting for fees and losses).

BUT, having said that, I'm all for allowing the merchants, banks, merchant service providers and customers have it out without the govt coming in and mandating minutiae.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogetyBoogety View Post
If the credit card is backed by a Bank, each financial institution has an affirmative and continuing obligation to respect the privacy of its customers and to protect the security and confidentiality of those customers' nonpublic personal information. They are not going to be asking some clerk to jeopardize that by having their client provide ID (with home address in plain sight) during a credit or debit card transaction.
You said it violates banking laws. Please cite the laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogetyBoogety View Post
There are NO chargebacks to the Merchant if the Merchant follows procedure: Swiped card, signature compared and matched, receipt issued. Look at your Agreement, if you have any doubts. You are NOT allowed to ask for ID if you are a Merchant processing a charge. Don't believe me if you want, but that's the way your Processing Agreement is worded.
That's complete

Merchants lose chargeback disputes ALL THE TIME because it boils down to one thing. The issuing bank KNOWS it would be virtutally impossible for the merchant to stop accepting plastic from a certain bank, but they know it would virtually effortless for the cardholder to close their account at the issuing bank and move their business elsewhere.

So the merchant gets stuck with chargebacks frequently, even if they did everything right.

I've been through those disputes as a merchant, and as a retail banker.
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:49 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by GlockMan View Post
Here is what would happen if your dumb azz started this in my store...


1. I would have you trespassed after your second little outburst.

2. I would have you fired by calling VISA myself and explaining to them why
.....me and everyone in my networking circle of store owners is going to quit
.....taking VISA because of their employee harassment from you.

3. I would kick you in the balls.


Loser.


PS - There is nothing wrong with asking for ID. Ever hear of charge backs?

You do realize I don't work for Visa right? But you guys feel free to isolate yourselves on no CC island because I'm asking you to follow the merchant agreement you signed, but I'm the @ss right?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoeba View Post
Or he can just tell you that his credit machine is broken and you have to pay by cash.

Charging by credit is a privilege, not a right. There's no law that requires him to let you pay by card.

And of course visa is going to say it's wrong to charge a minimum. They want to make money on every $1 transaction.
I'm okay with this. Cabbies do it all the time. If you want to run the store as cash only while I am in there, that's better than you trying to charge me a min. purchase "fee".



Just to clarify I don't work for VISA guyz...I just tell merchants I do to get them to comply. Same way I told a parking company I was a reporter for the ATL newspaper to get my boot removal fee refunded.

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Old 10-03-2012, 01:56 PM   #39
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You do realize I don't work for Visa right?

but I'm the @ss right?
Right!
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:19 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
LOL @ you ing about merchants "violating the MS agreement" and then lying to get what you want. Clearly integrity is huge for you.



There is a fundamental pricing question that faces all businesses. Spreading costs over all customers vs charging individual customers for the specific costs incurred doing business with them. There is no absolutely correct answer.

But what you're advocating is that ALL customers bear the costs the business incurs by accepting plastic from SOME customers. That sounds great when you're a plastic user, but not so great when you're a cash user.

Airlines face it all the time. They can raise ticket prices for everyone, or they can charge more to those that cost the airline more by charging for checked bags, oversize luggage, two seats for humongous passengers, etc.

Would you suggest that all octanes of gas cost the same? I mean, the cost of all the product should just be factored into the price, right?

Before you say "they're different", the real answer is "what is the customer willing to pay for?". Sometimes it's tangible, sometimes it's not. In the case of higher octane gas, the customer is willing to pay for the different product. In the case of paying by plastic, the customer is willing to pay for the convenience/security of not carrying cash. In the case of tipping the doorman to bypass the line at the club, the customer is willing to pay to get in earlier.

Now, having said all that, I dealt with plenty of business owners/managers who IMHO consistently underestimated the costs involved in cash simply because they didn't see an invoice for it. But cash has to be counted into the drawer, change counted out of the drawer, the drawer has to be balanced at EOD, the drawer has to be counted into the safe, big bills have to be exchanged for small bills and coin, the safe has to be counted, deposits have to be compiled, deposits have to be picked up by armor or taken to the bank. Cash is easily stolen, easily miscounted, people pass counterfeits,

So I personally think many merchants aren't being realistic when they charge more to accept plastic. If they really looked hard at the hard and soft costs involved with cash handling, I think they'd see it was costing them about the same % as taking plastic (accounting for fees and losses).

BUT, having said that, I'm all for allowing the merchants, banks, merchant service providers and customers have it out without the govt coming in and mandating minutiae.



You said it violates banking laws. Please cite the laws.

Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which See.

That's complete

Merchants lose chargeback disputes ALL THE TIME because it boils down to one thing. The issuing bank KNOWS it would be virtutally impossible for the merchant to stop accepting plastic from a certain bank, but they know it would virtually effortless for the cardholder to close their account at the issuing bank and move their business elsewhere.

So the merchant gets stuck with chargebacks frequently, even if they did everything right.

I've been through those disputes as a merchant, and as a retail banker.

Which would trigger an audit from your Processor, and would result in procedures put in place to eliminate the chargebacks. As a retail banker, you should be aware no one... not the bank, not the Processor (usually two different entities, by the way), and for sure not the Merchant... wants chargebacks on an ongoing basis. If it happens frequently, the Merchant is usually at fault, due to inattention, not adhering to their Agreements, or outright fraud.
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