Paul's HPF Custom Turbo 6766 M3 Build

Originally Posted by Bdave

What he said. Plus the extra expense. You can use that money MUCH better in areas like a better exhaust maifold. You want power, that's the area you need to be looking at. Thats the bottleneck. I think even below 800HP it counts.
Talk to SAAD or SP about a tubular manifold. Talk to Kirk at HPF about a tubular mainifold. It would be nice that the installation is all part of HPF build so your tune is pure HPF. It really helps if you have any warranty issues. Stay with HPF as much as possible, but tell them what you really want.

That 6766 makes mad power on SUPRAS which have better flowing exhaust manis an better flowing intake tubes.

If it all gets too complicated, then just let HPF do their standard build (no sleeved block) and DRIVE your car. The chances are good you will be pretty darn happy. You can always fiddle with manifolds and intakes way down the line.
But run the idea past HPF and see what they can do for you with being too costly and time consuming. You can easily shelve that idea for much later if now does not seem like the time for all that.
Good Luck. And dont stress. I think HPF can make that 6766 do everything that you need. They are good guys who want to please. And they are very capable.

One more thing. i ALWAYS like a baseline Dyno run with NO air cleaner no matter what the vehicle. I do this with Motorcycles, cars, FI, NA, etc.
It gives you very good picture if your air filter is restrictive. I think Marcus was loosing 50 PLUS HP with his airfilter. He has a bigger build so the figure is going to be pretty high. But you get the idea. I recommend the AFE air filter that has a hollow center for even more surface area. If needed, that is. Changing air filter models or brands is often the cheapest way to pick up some significant power. You will never know unless you do that Dyno pull with no air filter.

I could be all wrong about needing a tubular manifold and better intake breathing. I am going on logic not much else. I would very much like Larry from SP to chime in here and comment. I trust his judgment. I will ask him nicely to participate.
I feel I was talking a bit freely with no real hard facts behind me. Larry is the guy that this thread needs now IMO. I emailed him.

It's the weekend...a long one at that. So, I dont know exactly when we will be hearing from Larry. When we do, listen!

+1 All very good advise.

I looked through the pics the OP put up. You would be doing a lot better spending the money upgrading those brakes. On the track, it's the equivalent of free horsepower; you get to delay braking til later in the approach to a corner.

On the street, the BBK would just looks awesome especially behind those wheels. Maybe Brembo or Stoptec?

Originally Posted by FragNasty

+1 to no sleeves! It's too bleeding edge for anything that's not a garage queen or a car that is part of a race team prepared to swap motors. I don't believe the stage 3 kit even requires sleeves. It's an option that reduces displacement (and power) with the intention of thickening the walls between cylinders because of fears that the head gasket may fail at those points.

IMO It's just another thing that can give problems (if they move). The S54 with the L19's over-torqued has addressed the gasket issue; there haven't been any members complaining about blown head gaskets or heads lifting with that setup.

Adding sleeves, which will weaken the block (side effect of the extensive over-boring requirements to insert the sleeves), and the L19's and the extra torquing and you have a recipe for unwanted headache possibilities [in cylinder #5]! (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...&postcount=174)

So why try to solve a problem (thinner walls between cylinders) before you can even confirm it's actually a problem? Enjoy the 3.4 displacement and the extra power that can be had with a setup that hasn't proven to be anything but reliable.

Many of the builds that we've done have sleeved blocks. They are definitely much stronger than a .020" overbored block. Many of the motor failures we see have a small crack in the side of the cylinder wall. What can cause this is the head lifts, coolant flows into the cylinder and the side of the cylinder wall breaks into the water jacket. A sleeved block will handle this scenario much better and we've never seen this occur in any of the sleeved blocks we've done. However that is a condition that shouldn't happen in the first place if the tune is dialed and the head is on tight with ARP L19's. The sleeved block is a much better solution however it is mostly not necessary unless you're wanting really big numbers (over 900rwhp-1000rwhp), have already bored .020" over and need to re-bore, or just want added insurance.

Chris.

Originally Posted by HPF Chris

Many of the builds that we've done have sleeved blocks. They are definitely much stronger than a .020" overbored block. Many of the motor failures we see have a small crack in the side of the cylinder wall. What can cause this is the head lifts, coolant flows into the cylinder and the side of the cylinder wall breaks into the water jacket. A sleeved block will handle this scenario much better and we've never seen this occur in any of the sleeved blocks we've done. However that is a condition that shouldn't happen in the first place if the tune is dialed and the head is on tight with ARP L19's. The sleeved block is a much better solution however it is mostly not necessary unless you're wanting really big numbers (over 900rwhp-1000rwhp), have already bored .020" over and need to re-bore, or just want added insurance.

Chris.

Thanks for the reply Chris. Always a pleasure to read what you have to share on this forum and keep up the awesome work with your kits.

I agree 100% with everything you have written; no reason to disagree.

Although exactly what we understand by "stronger" depends a bit on the subjectivity of our criteria. Regardless, just to clarify, you haven't seen the above mentioned types of failures on unsleeved motors since you when to the L19's, correct?