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Old 10-08-2012, 12:20 AM   #21
tock172
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That Porsche is fvcking sick.
+1 that thing is amazing.

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I ran 40 psi all the way around. Wasn't sure if running more would've helped? I'll try more next time.

tape is so i dont get sand/rock-blasted. obvious, no? tape is cheaper than paint.
If you were already running 40, any more pressure would have helped. You exceeded the limits of the traction on the tires. Simple as that. The solution is to either not autocross, or pick up a dedicated set of tires.

The wear you got is much less than what I did to my V12s are about a month of driving on them.

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Nice! Looks like fun...

I keep trying to convince my friends that this would be 10 times more fun than hammering on the gas pedal and running 12s/13s at the dragstrip. Not many people seem to be as excited at the thought of auto-x as myself..which is unfortunate.
Most people I know that are into care prefer either drifting or drag racing. The drift stuff is cool I suppose but nothing does it for me like autocross (and someday HPDE's as well).

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Awesome. Tons of fun, isn't it? Great to hear you had a good time and took something away from the experience.

That's an *expensive* autoX. But to get that many runs and that little downtime, i'd pay that for sure. Too much downtime and not enough runs at the clubs around here.
$75 is definitely more than I've ever paid to to autocross, but with that amount of runs and only brief waiting periods, I'd say it's well worth it!
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:45 AM   #22
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Nice! I've gone to a few autocrosses in the e46... But always drove friends' cars I know the open diff would piss me off. Are you hooked? When I first started going I went every weekend for 2 months.

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Old 10-08-2012, 07:44 AM   #23
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$75 is definitely more than I've ever paid to to autocross, but with that amount of runs and only brief waiting periods, I'd say it's well worth it!
Agreed. That's twice what I pay...and i'd gladly pay it for the schedule he's describing.


As a side note...where are your numbers Mango?
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:50 AM   #24
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That Porsche ... :jawdrop:
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:14 AM   #25
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Track & autocross days are one of the best ways to learn the limits of what your car can do!

Highly recommend it for everyone - at least occasionally. It can be hard on your car if you do it regularly.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:30 AM   #26
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Agreed. That's twice what I pay...and i'd gladly pay it for the schedule he's describing.


As a side note...where are your numbers Mango?
There was just a sign that shows numbers as you cross the line. nothing on paper (not sure how they usually work.) but I was doing between 41.5 and 43 seconds (a couple of high 40s runs when I first started) but the fastest miatas (actually all the miatas) were doing 38 seconds consistently.

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Nice! I've gone to a few autocrosses in the e46... But always drove friends' cars I know the open diff would piss me off. Are you hooked? When I first started going I went every weekend for 2 months.
Definitely hooked but i also don't want to abuse my car.. my wheel bearings were already somewhat noisy before the track event and now they're LOUD. autocross killed them! they were booming around on the course and it was bugging me every second. ordering them today.

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Track & autocross days are one of the best ways to learn the limits of what your car can do!

Highly recommend it for everyone - at least occasionally. It can be hard on your car if you do it regularly.
i agree. don't want to do this all that often! i wonder who here goes a lot and how does their car hold up?
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:31 AM   #27
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This could be an excuse to buy another E46 as an autocross car
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:32 AM   #28
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I'm afraid to track my car for fear that it would fall apart and I'd have no car for a little bit
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:32 AM   #29
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This could be an excuse to buy another E46 as an autocross car
that's actually a good idea.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:38 AM   #30
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I don't know who the f you think you are, Mango, but while you were off autocrossing yesterday, guys here were having trouble...calling for you...crying for you. No Mango.

You of all people should know that if you're going to take a day off, even 'because 'sort of' race car, you need to ask permission first.

You can't leave these guys alone even for a day...no telling what they'll do! Actually, I'll tell you what they do...they use green coolant, they lower, they paint their tires...tires! They paint tires, Mango! And where are you?

Off in some parking lot messing up your bearings and tires...just thinking of yourself.

Selfish!

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Old 10-08-2012, 10:45 AM   #31
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I ignored my coolant system refresh and installed projectors...I couldn't help myself... I'm sorry... I need ... Help. I just really new help ok ? Kalim ran off to the middle east with Albee and now I have to drive my car or a business trip and its going to be hot...

And I just want more carbon fiber, gimmethefracjincarbonfibwrwhatssofhckkngwringwirhcarbonfiber iloveitireallyloveit... I... Love... It.... Ahhhhhbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbc ncdknkxjejnsjnekjdmnkkxjkxjk b
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:53 AM   #32
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I don't know who the f you think you are, Mango, but while you were off autocrossing yesterday, guys here were having trouble...calling for you...crying for you. No Mango.

You of all people should know that if you're going to take a day off, even 'because 'sort of' race car, you need to ask permission first.

You can't leave these guys alone even for a day...no telling what they'll do! Actually, I'll tell you what they do...they use green coolant, they lower, they paint their tires...tires! They paint tires, Mango! And where are you?

Off in some parking lot messing up your bearings and tires...just thinking of yourself.

Selfish!

Face Munich...read Bentley 200-13-17 ten times!
At least we both got our feet wet at driving events! you drag race and i autox! Read bentley 200-13-17? Hell, I have it laminated and placed in my glovebox!
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:10 AM   #33
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They paint tires...
I thought this was OK provided the color used is fern green?
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:06 PM   #34
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Looking good out there, learning the limits of these cars is a lot of fun. Tape is actually a good idea I had to scratch-x a mark from whacking a cone before
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:32 PM   #35
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Oh, yea, that's another thing. They make green painters tape. WTF were you thinking, Mango?

On the understeer, just bump up the pressure in the front a bit...bet a few pounds would make enough of a difference.

I don't think I'd autocross, but I'd love to track my car. When I become a comedy cult leader, I'll take the money from my cult members and make that happen. I hope they'll give me enough for the Nurbergring...I want to drive it IRL one time!
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:33 PM   #36
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Oh, yea, that's another thing. They make green painters tape. WTF were you thinking, Mango?

On the understeer, just bump up the pressure in the front a bit...bet a few pounds would make enough of a difference.

I don't think I'd autocross, but I'd love to track my car. When I become a comedy cult leader, I'll take the money from my cult members and make that happen. I hope they'll give me enough for the Nurbergring...I want to drive it IRL one time!
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:17 PM   #37
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There was just a sign that shows numbers as you cross the line. nothing on paper (not sure how they usually work.) but I was doing between 41.5 and 43 seconds (a couple of high 40s runs when I first started) but the fastest miatas (actually all the miatas) were doing 38 seconds consistently.

Definitely hooked but i also don't want to abuse my car.. my wheel bearings were already somewhat noisy before the track event and now they're LOUD. autocross killed them! they were booming around on the course and it was bugging me every second. ordering them today.

i agree. don't want to do this all that often! i wonder who here goes a lot and how does their car hold up?
I was talking about the numbers on your car. There aren't any markings on it.

Are you sure it's your bearings? It's probably unlikely that they got notably worse from one autoX event (though it depends on how bad they were to begin with). Though, you probably heat cycled your tires more than they've ever seen before, which will definitely make them louder.

You know me, I haven't had my 330 for long. But i've been thrashing, and I mean absolutely thrashing, my E36 out on the autoX course for years and never had a single problem with. You can definitely put some wear on the engine if you don't heat it up properly. But it sounds like your runs are so frequent that you don't have to worry about the car cooling down. I would recommend letting the car idle for a minute or 2 before shutting it down after a run though. If you've introduced any air into the lubrication system from partial starvation (oil sloshing away from the pickup tube), it will evacuate it. Otherwise, you could get lifter noise (ie. friction) on the next startup. I know you're thinking about your cooling system. But it'll be fine. Don't pop the hood inbetween runs. Conserve all the residual heat you can. It will keep your oil warm so it circulates. It's not like a track even where the oil can overheat. The runs aren't long enough.

Anyways. Be mindful of your rear floor pan too. But other than that, i'd just have fun and enjoy the car. If you're getting understeer, you can do a few things:
-Increase your rear tire pressures relative to the fronts.
-Drive around it. (see below)
-Modify the car or change your alignment specs. Pop the pins out and max out the camber up front. Reduce the camber in the rear.


For driving around it, get your braking done before you turn. You hit the brakes, the car lunges forward and shifts weight onto the front tires. A tire can only do so much. If you ask them to turn while braking, you're often asking too much. If you plow the front end, you're loosing speed. The car is fastest being driven consistently *at* the limits of the tires. If you exceed the grip and the car steps out of line, you asked too much and lost time because of it.

Anyways...back to weight shift. Also keep in mind that when you hit the gas, the car lunges back and takes weight OFF the front tires. If you do this while trying to turn out of a corner, you may find the car isn't as responsive to change direction. In the tight stuff, you have to grab it by the scruff of the neck and swing the rear end out to point the car in line. The car has a long wheel base. It's very stable. But it can't change direction at low speeds as easily as those Miatas.

The key is finding the balance for every corner...knowing when to brake, and when to get back on the gas. As a general rule, i'd start braking earlier than you think you need to (or better yet, brake at the same time, but brake harder), and getting on the gas earlier than you think you can.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:24 PM   #38
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I was talking about the numbers on your car. There aren't any markings on it.

Are you sure it's your bearings? It's probably unlikely that they got notably worse from one autoX event (though it depends on how bad they were to begin with). Though, you probably heat cycled your tires more than they've ever seen before, which will definitely make them louder.

You know me, I haven't had my 330 for long. But i've been thrashing, and I mean absolutely thrashing, my E36 out on the autoX course for years and never had a single problem with. You can definitely put some wear on the engine if you don't heat it up properly. But it sounds like your runs are so frequent that you don't have to worry about the car cooling down. I would recommend letting the car idle for a minute or 2 before shutting it down after a run though. If you've introduced any air into the lubrication system from partial starvation (oil sloshing away from the pickup tube), it will evacuate it. Otherwise, you could get lifter noise (ie. friction) on the next startup. I know you're thinking about your cooling system. But it'll be fine. Don't pop the hood inbetween runs. Conserve all the residual heat you can. It will keep your oil warm so it circulates. It's not like a track even where the oil can overheat. The runs aren't long enough.

Anyways. Be mindful of your rear floor pan too. But other than that, i'd just have fun and enjoy the car. If you're getting understeer, you can do a few things:
-Increase your rear tire pressures relative to the fronts.
-Drive around it. (see below)
-Modify the car or change your alignment specs. Pop the pins out and max out the camber up front. Reduce the camber in the rear.


For driving around it, get your braking done before you turn. You hit the brakes, the car lunges forward and shifts weight onto the front tires. A tire can only do so much. If you ask them to turn while braking, you're often asking too much. If you plow the front end, you're loosing speed. The car is fastest being driven consistently *at* the limits of the tires. If you exceed the grip and the car steps out of line, you asked too much and lost time because of it.

Anyways...back to weight shift. Also keep in mind that when you hit the gas, the car lunges back and takes weight OFF the front tires. If you do this while trying to turn out of a corner, you may find the car isn't as responsive to change direction. In the tight stuff, you have to grab it by the scruff of the neck and swing the rear end out to point the car in line. The car has a long wheel base. It's very stable. But it can't change direction at low speeds as easily as those Miatas.

The key is finding the balance for every corner...knowing when to brake, and when to get back on the gas. As a general rule, i'd start braking earlier than you think you need to (or better yet, brake at the same time, but brake harder), and getting on the gas earlier than you think you can.
This is solid advice. You definitely know what you're talking about. I wouldn't consider myself too experienced with autocross, but I have found the biggest thing that really helped me when I first started was remembering to keep my head up and look through the course. For some reason, this always made for a better time and fewer cone strikes. Things just seem to flow a lot better when you're looking ahead.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:47 PM   #39
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fiveeight...

You said to increase the rear tire pressure to reduce understeer...and I'd said just the opposite. I wonder if AutoX is that different from 'regular' driving...because in DD, increasing the front tire pressure relative to the rear increases oversteer. For the same degree of turn in the tires, with more air, the tire is bigger, and thus more turning is done.

Are the physics in AutoX that different? I'm confused...or you just made a typo.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:11 PM   #40
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Technically, tires have one "perfect" pressure that produces maximum grip, and any pressure below or above that will generate less grip on that axle. In practice, increasing rear tire pressure WILL increase oversteer....and it has little to nothing to do with the diameter of the tires, lol. You'll never get an e46 on street tires to not understeer, in my experience...and a wimpy OE sway bar is a waste of time. More front camber from camber plates, and/or bigger aftermarket sways like UUC or the like.

I think 40psi all around is probably too much. It's hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like OP isn't scrubbing the tires all the way to the sidewall; there are usually arrows or indicator marks on the tire to aim for.
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