why is the BMW coolant system the way it is?

Still no Mango? What is the world coming to?

he was assassinated by BMW

Originally Posted by MercForHire

he was assassinated by BMW

Doubtful, he pushes parts like no other.

Race car mudafaka

Originally Posted by 2003 325i

I take care of my car, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Mechanic FTW, I have a good handle on the pulse of my car.

Some say 2003 325i has fingers that plug into an OBD II socket.
All we know is he can smell a failing Expansion Tank five days before it splits!

Originally Posted by EmFiftyFour

Thanks for broadening my view on the matter..

But I do find the conventional cooling system to be much more reliable. So much easier to bleed as well.

Thanks for taking it the right way!
And no doubt the older systems were much easier to deal with. I had never changed a water pump or even a hose on a car until my BMW. I have never needed to. I never had a friend that needed to. It just did not happen.
I can remember when Gates ran ads during football games trying to convince people to change their hoses every 2 years, which no one ever did.
My first cooling issue ever was with my 2001 Eclipse GT, which had a plastic radiator top, with the hose connection molded into it. I leaned on it while adding oil, and my hand went right through it. I replaced it with an all metal unit for $125. I still have the car, and the radiator.

Let's throw in a little perspective. Cars used to run without proactive renewal, but then they used to be shot at 60-70K miles and not worth it to repair. And it felt like you were driving an old car.
Now my car has 96K miles and I'm replacing parts because it still feels and looks like a new car. I strive to make it feel like the day I picked it up new with all the tolerances tight and the handling and acceleration still solid.
So that water pump that you never replaced before was part of a car that never had a great shot at going over 100K. The car around it collapsed before that time.

Originally Posted by Stinger9

Let's throw in a little perspective. Cars used to run without proactive renewal, but then they used to be shot at 60-70K miles and not worth it to repair. And it felt like you were driving an old car.
Now my car has 96K miles and I'm replacing parts because it still feels and looks like a new car. I strive to make it feel like the day I picked it up new with all the tolerances tight and the handling and acceleration still solid.
So that water pump that you never replaced before was part of a car that never had a great shot at going over 100K. The car around it collapsed before that time.

Well, the fact that the water pump was an 8lb chunk of aluminum, with a bearing the size of an e46 wheel bearing, and an impeller the size of an e46 fan blade did not hurt matters. And my first car was a 68 Firebird with 160k miles.

The truth is that there is now a new class of maintainence now. You have to replace plastic components simply because of age, or risk failure. The manufacturers have given up years of longevity in return for lower weight and parts that are simpler to produce, have less scrap loss, and are more dimensionally consistent. From an owners perspective, it is a step back. From a manufacturing standpoint, it is an advance.
The weight has to come from somewhere, and they are stuffing more electronics, convienence features, and fvcking cup holders into the cars. For those that care about long term use, it is a loss. But this goes on with every other consumer product as well. Nothing is designed for long term durability, plain and simple. Are cars better? Yes. Could they be better without heavy use of plastics? Yes. But no one is demanding that. People want headrest displays, and 12 inch Nav screens. Mechanical purists will lose out to features every time. But it won't go away.

Noticed something the other day. The coolant level float is rigged to never go (much) above max. Maybe this is why Fanatics tend to blow up their tanks/

To those who have not noticed this by now. Have your car serviced by a professional.

Originally Posted by dknightd

Noticed something the other day. The coolant level float is rigged to never go (much) above max. Maybe this is why Fanatics tend to blow up their tanks/

I've probably written 'fill to between min and max' about a thousand times or more...as the bobber doesn't indicate 'over max.' You need that air cushion in the ET.

Thus, I don't think Stinger's comment was that out of line!

If Mango was here, this is what he'd say...and yes, I'm channeling him. Don't try it at home!

"You don't need to know why, you just need to replace it all. Don't ask why. Don't ask how, because I've told you how in my sticky, which is right above you. Read it. Do it. Do it all. Don't ask. Do. Go now!"

Originally Posted by DHK

My guess is the usual German thing where they over engineer something that in testing is better but in practice wears out after 5+ years.

In theory a closed system is better, until that system isn't closed anymore then its way worse.

I think I've come to the same conclusion. One system that will will work world wide - at least for a few years.

just because

Originally Posted by MJLavelle

The truth is that there is now a new class of maintainence now. You have to replace plastic components simply because of age, or risk failure. The manufacturers have given up years of longevity in return for lower weight and parts that are simpler to produce, have less scrap loss, and are more dimensionally consistent. From an owners perspective, it is a step back. From a manufacturing standpoint, it is an advance.

Well said.

Originally Posted by 2003 325i

If I'd have JFOJ'd or Mangoed as those "gurus" suggest, I'd have thrown away somewhere in the neighbourhood of 2 grand by now and not had my car running any better than it is in the current condition.

This board like any other car board has an epidemic of people with no mechanical skill who all think they can/should work on their own vehicle. There are few that can/should as evidenced by the multitude of inane/assinine threads that exist. On top of that we have others telling these very same people who don't know WTH they are doing to replace isht at crazy intervals. These people are either egomaniacs who think everyone should follow their (mostly unfounded) advice, or secretly parts dealers or work in the auto parts industry. I vote for the former.

Very well put. I too have noticed this very same thing. Heaven forbid you ask these people what makes them qualified. Like age or mechanical experience. Just accept their advice that they cram down the new members of this forum. Become their followers I have seen them post wrong things many times and other members correct them. They then just ignore the correction. To me this shows they are not about the cars, but their own egos.

Mango has provided some useful information for those looking to work on their cooling systems, I'll give him that. It is his overbearing attitude and the condesending tone of his posts that are nuaseating. His berating of those just looking for a fix to get their car back on the road with his: "Replace it all!" mantra has brought a negative quality to the board.
I'm not sure why the administrator puts up with it.

Mango: Not everyone here gives a rats a$$ about replacing every nut and bolt down to the engine block like you've done to your car. There is a world out there beyond your car...

Ever heard of Shtick?

Originally Posted by klax

Mango has provided some useful information for those looking to work on their cooling systems, I'll give him that. It is his overbearing attitude and the condesending tone of his posts that are nuaseating. His berating of those just looking for a fix to get their car back on the road with his: "Replace it all!" mantra has brought a negative quality to the board.
I'm not sure why the administrator puts up with it.

Mango: Not everyone here gives a rats a$$ about replacing every nut and bolt down to the engine block like you've done to your car. There is a world out there beyond your car...

As much as I agree with him about what he says, going into other peoples' threads asking about which mods they want to do, advice on a mod they got, etc. and responding with "Go do your cooling system and everything else to your car, read my signature" is entirely inappropriate. It does not answer their question, nor was that something warranted. They didn't ask for maintenance advice. They asked for information about some mods.

It's almost like he's got a hugely inflated ego for the fact that he has a sticky and wants everyone to know that he has a sticky on the biggest E46 forum on the web. Yes, awesome, he has a sticky with useful information, congratulations - stop flooding the damn forum with the same old phrase over and over so people go and read the very top thread on the forum that everyone sees in the first place.

If you really have a problem with people modifying their cars rather than fixing everything that has any wear, go into the forced induction, software modding, and car care forums and post in every single thread to do your entire sticky. Let me know how that works out.

He's right, he's done a good job compiling information, why does he have to force it down everyone's throat? Jesus. I'm spending more time at ZHPMafia where we all actually talk about useful things rather than listen to someone shout about how you need to replace everything in your cooling system if your temperature sensor o-ring is leaking. It's almost appropriate that Steve Jobs is in his quote - Apple is the company notorious for replacing absolutely everything to fix something rather than small parts.

TLDR:

I'm aware of the things that could happen to my car.

I know the cooling system is brittle.

I know my fuel pump could fail.

I know my suspension is "totally shot"

Shut up and let me do what I ****ing want to do to my car, I will refer to all of those threads when I get around to those items. It's no skin off of either of your bones if my fuel pump dies, or if my cooling system fails, or if my ride isn't as good of quality as it used to be from the factory. If you lose sleep at night over me doing what I want to do with my car, then you need something better to do.

You did your part, you made the threads, some are stickied, all of them pop up on the first page on Google when you search it, everyone has the information they need now. You're being rude by stating it when people didn't ask for it.

Give. It. A. Rest. And let us work on our damn cars.

/rant

Thank you for clearly stating what needed to be said.

Only now once I have some people listening and agreeing with me was I able to vote 5 stars on this thread. Thanks to a bunch of people for having an open mind. I especially liked the post by Zell about not needing to replace your whole cooling system when your temp sensor O-ring has a leak... got a kick out of that.