10w-30 in a 330i

Originally Posted by rovert

^ LOL I used rechargeable...they're only 1.2 volt... Hahahhaha that's awesome daki!!


As for all the shearing numbers from oil analysis tests...can they prove that these test numbers will be the end all of an engine? Can our operators manual prove it too? Mechanics that I know well have worked on engines for decades and think most of it is just business practice to make the most amount of profit. I'd do the same thing too if that's how the average consumer is swayed to spend more money with my business.

Here's my engine after 153K miles of abuse with no sign of sludge. The VANOS was completely fine other than the predicted hardened seals. I installed a refurbished VANOS though where the cylinders were polished for better than new condition. My old VANOS will be reconditioned the same as my replacement with new seals for the next car.









It gets redlined on every drive at least once after the oil has reached operating temperature...not using the coolant gauge. Compression is all within limits too.

So give us the specs of the oil used

I've used just about every brand of oil I've seen at the stores. LOL. When I first bought my car I was using BMW oil, then I switched to finding BMW LL approved oils, then when I saw sale/cheap prices for 5w30 I'd get that and one thing led to another and now today as long as it's synthetic oil, I just put it in. In my garage I have a combo of Noname 5w30, Mobil1 10w-40, Castrol 10w-30. They all have certifications on them but I don't pay much attention to them anymore. I just grab whatever is closest to me when I'm doing a top up. My main base in the engine right now is Motul 8100 5w40. Some say my practice is a ticking time bomb, but I don't see it when I look into my bare engine, how it drives on the road, the fuel economy, performance, etc... My dad is the same with his '97 540i that has more mileage. My sister's '01 Audi A4 hasn't had a problem either. North America is sold on brands because of how it makes us feel when others use a "lesser" brand.

If most engine oils on the shelves today were made for a specific use, and only one use, I'd think oil manufacturers would be getting sued up the behind from customers who have absolute no clue about what to purchase because the internals of their engines broke from wear. But the petroleum product companies are still in business today making enormous profits! My car is happy whether is gets Tier 1, 2, or 3 fuel. I'm not too fussy about what goes in it as long as the station is the only one with super old pumps and noone refueling at that station when busy Chevron, Shell, and Texaco are next door.

Originally Posted by rovert

I've used just about every brand of oil I've seen at the stores. LOL. When I first bought my car I was using BMW oil, then I switched to finding BMW LL approved oils, then when I saw sale/cheap prices for 5w30 I'd get that and one thing led to another and now today as long as it's synthetic oil, I just put it in. In my garage I have a combo of Noname 5w30, Mobil1 10w-40, Castrol 10w-30. They all have certifications on them but I don't pay much attention to them anymore. I just grab whatever is closest to me when I'm doing a top up. My main base in the engine right now is Motul 8100 5w40. Some say my practice is a ticking time bomb, but I don't see it when I look into my bare engine, how it drives on the road, the fuel economy, performance, etc... My dad is the same with his '97 540i that has more mileage. My sister's '01 Audi A4 hasn't had a problem either. North America is sold on brands because of how it makes us feel when others use a "lesser" brand.

If most engine oils on the shelves today were made for a specific use, and only one use, I'd think oil manufacturers would be getting sued up the behind from customers who have absolute no clue about what to purchase because the internals of their engines broke from wear. But the petroleum product companies are still in business today making enormous profits! My car is happy whether is gets Tier 1, 2, or 3 fuel. I'm not too fussy about what goes in it as long as the station is the only one with super old pumps and noone refueling at that station when busy Chevron, Shell, and Texaco are next door.

Pity the poir sod who ends up with your BM later

Originally Posted by rovert

My car is happy whether is gets Tier 1, 2, or 3 fuel. I'm not too fussy about what goes in it as long as the station is the only one with super old pumps and noone refueling at that station when busy Chevron, Shell, and Texaco are next door.

Care to elaborate on this? I don't follow what you mean. I've always heard pump slow to get more fuel/less air, pump at night so it's more dense, don't pump after the tanker refills and stirs up sediment...you prefer old pumps with no one else using them?

Originally Posted by rovert

I've used just about every brand of oil I've seen at the stores. LOL. When I first bought my car I was using BMW oil, then I switched to finding BMW LL approved oils, then when I saw sale/cheap prices for 5w30 I'd get that and one thing led to another and now today as long as it's synthetic oil, I just put it in. In my garage I have a combo of Noname 5w30, Mobil1 10w-40, Castrol 10w-30. They all have certifications on them but I don't pay much attention to them anymore. I just grab whatever is closest to me when I'm doing a top up. My main base in the engine right now is Motul 8100 5w40. Some say my practice is a ticking time bomb, but I don't see it when I look into my bare engine, how it drives on the road, the fuel economy, performance, etc... My dad is the same with his '97 540i that has more mileage. My sister's '01 Audi A4 hasn't had a problem either. North America is sold on brands because of how it makes us feel when others use a "lesser" brand.

If most engine oils on the shelves today were made for a specific use, and only one use, I'd think oil manufacturers would be getting sued up the behind from customers who have absolute no clue about what to purchase because the internals of their engines broke from wear. But the petroleum product companies are still in business today making enormous profits! My car is happy whether is gets Tier 1, 2, or 3 fuel. I'm not too fussy about what goes in it as long as the station is the only one with super old pumps and noone refueling at that station when busy Chevron, Shell, and Texaco are next door.

That's one barnyard of a post. You could mix a glass of water in a full tank of your fuel and likely not notice a difference. Not sure why you'd want to though.

Using the correct oil in your car is not only NOT more expensive than the barnyard oil you're using--it's actually cheaper!

You're actually paying more to screw up your car! Imagine that!!!

Originally Posted by lcoleman

Care to elaborate on this? I don't follow what you mean. I've always heard pump slow to get more fuel/less air, pump at night so it's more dense, don't pump after the tanker refills and stirs up sediment...you prefer old pumps with no one else using them?

No no..use fuel stations with up to date pumps. That shows they make money because of people using them and they haven't been sued for something bad enough to bankrupt the owner. I usually use Shell when I'm at home, but when I travel I'll take Chevron. If there is nothing else around and I'm low then I'll pick a lower brand of fuel and try to avoid the smaller mom and pop stores just because I don't know.

You're right about pumping slow and when the earth is cooler. I've always done that but I don't know how much money you actually save. If I'm in a hurry I'll pump at full speed but most of the time I'll default to the slowest speed. I'll avoid my regular fuel station if I see a tanker refilling their tanks.

Originally Posted by E46Mango

That's one barnyard of a post. You could mix a glass of water in a full tank of your fuel and likely not notice a difference. Not sure why you'd want to though.

Using the correct oil in your car is not only NOT more expensive than the barnyard oil you're using--it's actually cheaper!

You're actually paying more to screw up your car! Imagine that!!!

Show me hard proof that highly maintained engine using non BMW LL approved oil has rendered an engine as junk within 10 years of ownership and I might change the way I do things. My friend owns a BMW junkyard and most of them are either totaled from a crash or completely dead from no maintenance. What I do make sure is that I am using a product that is commonly used by the masses. I'm for sure not going to use ///M weighted oil in my engine. I've never heard any difference with regular weighted oils though. I don't get any ticking or abnormal sounds. I have once ran my oil down so low it didn't show on the dipstick. The oil level sensor failed and I totally forgot about checking oil so when I was driving against a wall I could hear a slight tick and I immediately knew lubrication was lacking.

I know my car very well as with many of you. I can tell when the engine is needing something or any other part of the car. I use my common sense on maintenance and it's never...never needed a tow truck since I've bought it 7 years ago. It's been a great friend to my exploring the world!! It's often driven by my best friend who is a BMW technician and he helps with any maintenance that I can't do on my own.

I follow my way of maintenance as a test to my common sense as well as so I don't become anal about this hunk of moving metal. I see many who get all upset & bitter over their maintenance which doesn't seem right. It's a car. It's your life. It can be fixed and replaced with money, so enjoy this wonderful machine with friends, without them thinking you're so in love with it that you'd take your car over them. That's my motto!

My useless owners manual says:

If you are unable to obtain an approved
"BMW High Performance Synthetic
Oil," you may use small volumes of
other synthetic oils for topping up
between oil changes. Use only oils with
the specification API SH or higher

I'm guessing anything less than API SH is hard to find on a shop shelf.

I'll probably look for bmw approved LL-01 (I think that is all my car has seen). Does anybody know what it takes to be ll-01?
Is ll-02 ok? I'd pester my bmw dealer, but they do not care anymore - car is out of warrentee. I'm guessing any decent synthetic oil would
be just fine. Especially if we change once a year or 7500 miles, which ever comes first. I haven't bought oil for my bmw yet, it got bmw oil change before I bought it.
I'll use bmw oil again if the price is about the same.

Funny how they say "use only BMW oil" and yet they also say that you can use 5W-40 (which is what I use). The magic BMW oil doesn't come in 5W-40...

Originally Posted by dknightd

My useless owners manual says:

If you are unable to obtain an approved
"BMW High Performance Synthetic
Oil," you may use small volumes of
other synthetic oils for topping up
between oil changes. Use only oils with
the specification API SH or higher

I'm guessing anything less than API SH is hard to find on a shop shelf.

I'll probably look for bmw approved LL-01 (I think that is all my car has seen). Does anybody know what it takes to be ll-01?
Is ll-02 ok? I'd pester my bmw dealer, but they do not care anymore - car is out of warrentee. I'm guessing any decent synthetic oil would
be just fine. Especially if we change once a year or 7500 miles, which ever comes first. I haven't bought oil for my bmw yet, it got bmw oil change before I bought it.
I'll use bmw oil again if the price is about the same.

LL01 requires an oil to be approx 12.0 cSt @ 100C viscosity, have a HTHS of 3.5 or higher, etc etc. Does that actually mean something to you as 99.9999% of the population don't, hence the simple LL01 spec.

Originally Posted by klax

Funny how they say "use only BMW oil" and yet they also say that you can use 5W-40 (which is what I use). The magic BMW oil doesn't come in 5W-40...

'magic' BMW oil only exists in the U.S as the U.S has CAFE. Just about everywhere else use XW40 that meets LL01 to give some margin when the oil shears. U.S BMW 5W30 is pretty much on the lower end even when new and will be under spec when it shears.

I'm going to step out on a limb here & voice my $.02 about oil. I'm an old fart my most of the forums standard & have been a 'car nut' all my life. Using ONLY the BMW approved oils is ridiculous.
1. First, BMW is NOT going to test every oil on the market. They WILL look at the 'major' brands, and especially Castroil since they made a deal with them to supply their factory fills. You can bet that they were the cheapest quoted contract. I have dome business with the BMW plant in Spartanburg or their 1st & 2nd tier suppliers ans PRICE is the bottom line.
2. BMW's LL-01 oil spec is based on European standards, NOT USA standards. That's why they replaced so many nikasil 4.0l V-8's. OUR hight sulfur content gas made from high sulfur oils caused the engines to corrode due to the un-burnt sulfur in the cylinders. That was NOT a problem in Europe OR California. The European standard is "ACEA" & BMW's spec is A3/B3, A3/B4, and then they add API (American petroleum Institute) Use only oils with an API rating of SM or higher

Then on there web page http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx they spell out the "approved " USA oils.

The reason for the move toward the "0W" & "5W" is for fuel economy. This has been the big push by the the government for years. The low end number makes it easier to meet these requirements. Not to say that thin oil on a cold day isn't good; it is. But to argue over a 5 w & a 10W is crazy. IT will not destroy your engine.

Go to Walmart & look at the specs on the back of the Mobil 1 "European" 0W40 oil. It says meets ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 & is API SL,SM, SN. SN is the latest "improved" designation by API. Now look on the back of all the other grades. Just about all of them meet the API SL,SM,SN. Not all meet the ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4. HOWEVER, look at the Mobil 10W40 high mileage jug....it meets the same specs as the 0W40, both USA & European. It will work fine year round unless you live in Fargo.

3. The BMW web page also states: The choice of the right SAE grade is based on the climatic conditions in the region in which you normally drive your BMW. So use some common sense here. Most newer BMW's have it molded in the plastic "USE Castroil". Did you ever wonder why?
Conclusion: Use a good named brand of synthetic oil (it cleans better) for newer cars; and use an oil weight dependent of where you live. Check the Bentley BMW service manual: It calls out 5W30 in a temperature range from -20F to about 60F & 15W50 from 20F up to above 80F.

Use you heads guys. Change oil & filter with a good grade Synthetic oil about every 6000 miles. Even BMW's computer will tell you 11-12k miles, which IMO, is TOO long. BUT every new car dealer will only do it when the computer says so.

sorry for the rant......

Originally Posted by bimmernut3

I'm going to step out on a limb here & voice my $.02 about oil. I'm an old fart my most of the forums standard & have been a 'car nut' all my life. Using ONLY the BMW approved oils is ridiculous.
1. First, BMW is NOT going to test every oil on the market. They WILL look at the 'major' brands, and especially Castroil since they made a deal with them to supply their factory fills. You can bet that they were the cheapest quoted contract. I have dome business with the BMW plant in Spartanburg or their 1st & 2nd tier suppliers ans PRICE is the bottom line.
2. BMW's LL-01 oil spec is based on European standards, NOT USA standards. That's why they replaced so many nikasil 4.0l V-8's. OUR hight sulfur content gas made from high sulfur oils caused the engines to corrode due to the un-burnt sulfur in the cylinders. That was NOT a problem in Europe OR California. The European standard is "ACEA" & BMW's spec is A3/B3, A3/B4, and then they add API (American petroleum Institute) Use only oils with an API rating of SM or higher

Then on there web page http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx they spell out the "approved " USA oils.

The reason for the move toward the "0W" & "5W" is for fuel economy. This has been the big push by the the government for years. The low end number makes it easier to meet these requirements. Not to say that thin oil on a cold day isn't good; it is. But to argue over a 5 w & a 10W is crazy. IT will not destroy your engine.

Go to Walmart & look at the specs on the back of the Mobil 1 "European" 0W40 oil. It says meets ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 & is API SL,SM, SN. SN is the latest "improved" designation by API. Now look on the back of all the other grades. Just about all of them meet the API SL,SM,SN. Not all meet the ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4. HOWEVER, look at the Mobil 10W40 high mileage jug....it meets the same specs as the 0W40, both USA & European. It will work fine year round unless you live in Fargo.

3. The BMW web page also states: The choice of the right SAE grade is based on the climatic conditions in the region in which you normally drive your BMW. So use some common sense here. Most newer BMW's have it molded in the plastic "USE Castroil". Did you ever wonder why?
Conclusion: Use a good named brand of synthetic oil (it cleans better) for newer cars; and use an oil weight dependent of where you live. Check the Bentley BMW service manual: It calls out 5W30 in a temperature range from -20F to about 60F & 15W50 from 20F up to above 80F.

Use you heads guys. Change oil & filter with a good grade Synthetic oil about every 6000 miles. Even BMW's computer will tell you 11-12k miles, which IMO, is TOO long. BUT every new car dealer will only do it when the computer says so.

sorry for the rant......

The 5W30 is fine as long as it's a version close to a 40W and has a HTHS around 3.5. Most don't come close!

Originally Posted by bimmernut3

I'm going to step out on a limb here & voice my $.02 about oil. I'm an old fart my most of the forums standard & have been a 'car nut' all my life. Using ONLY the BMW approved oils is ridiculous.

...

Use you heads guys. Change oil & filter with a good grade Synthetic oil about every 6000 miles. Even BMW's computer will tell you 11-12k miles, which IMO, is TOO long. BUT every new car dealer will only do it when the computer says so.

sorry for the rant......

Originally Posted by sprintman

The 5W30 is fine as long as it's a version close to a 40W and has a HTHS around 3.5. Most don't come close!

For those that don't know what HTHS is: High Temp/Low Shear
Low HTLS would give better efficiency or MPG. High HTLS gives more durability.

Mobil1 0W40 has a HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) =3.8
Mobil1 10W40 High mileage is 3.9
Mobil1 10W30 " " " 3.5
Mobil1 10W30 (non high mileage) is 3.0
Mobil1 5W30 " " " is 3.1

The higher the number the better durability the oil has.
AND the High Mileage oil has a seal conditioner in it that the others do not.

ready for the flames....

Originally Posted by bimmernut3

For those that don't know what HTHS is: High Temp/Low Shear
Low HTLS would give better efficiency or MPG. High HTLS gives more durability.

Mobil1 0W40 has a HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) =3.8
Mobil1 10W40 High mileage is 3.9
Mobil1 10W30 " " " 3.5
Mobil1 10W30 (non high mileage) is 3.0
Mobil1 5W30 " " " is 3.1

The higher the number the better durability the oil has.
AND the High Mileage oil has a seal conditioner in it that the others do not.

ready for the flames....

the M1 XW30's are too thin at operating temperature.

...these are the threads that never end, yes they go on and on my friends, people started posting them not knowing what they were, and they'll keep on posting in them forever just because, these are the threads that never end...

Originally Posted by bimmernut3

It will work fine year round unless you live in Fargo.

I think that's part of the point though. BMW's goal was to design a specification that lubricated the engine efficiently in all parts of the world year round.

I highly doubt 0w and 5w were chosen for fuel efficiency though. For the most part a 0w-30 and a 10w-30 will have similar viscosities at operating temperature. 0w/5w/10w will only make a difference at temperatures below freezing. So there really is little disadvantage to using a 0w-30 or a 0w-40 over a 10w-whatever. It's the other end of the spectrum that will have a larger impact on fuel economy - which is why many cars have 5w-20 as the recommended oil. I've even heard of a few cases where 5w-20 is recommended in the US while the RoW gets a Xw-30 recommendation.

Would most be fine with a 10w-30? Yes. But unless you get a super deal on it, I see no reason to use it.

I can not figure out why this is always such a debate. BMW paid a lot of guys with PHD after their name to come up with a spec for what we should use. I am pretty sure these guys did not pull it out of their ass, and they don't work for free. So why does everyone feel the need to second guess them so much? Unless you also have a PHD after your name, and know something that they did not, it seems like a waste of time and effort to try to prove them wrong. It is so damn simple to just use the oil, coolant, and gas that BMW reccomends, and not have to worry that you may be wrong. It is not as if you are really saving any significant money by not following their advice. If they made it difficult to find, or significantly more expensive to use what they reccomend, then it may be worth a second look. But some of you are actually paying more to use something they don't reccomend.
To me, it seems like a simple thing to do. Use what they tell you to use. They are not profiting from their reccomendations. If they wanted to do that, they would not let any other company know the specific additives that make up the BMW LL-01 spec, and they would be the only vendor for it, and they would charge a fortune. If that was the case, I would be researching the spec, and looking for something close. But that is not the case, so why all of the 2nd guessing the experts? It is simple. Use what they say to use, and scratch that off your list of things to worry about.
But, use what you want. You may be fine, you may not. You may not own the car if/when the problems show up. I plan on keeping mine, so I see no need to second guess them. In fact, I suggest all of you use the cheapest, non-synthetic, convienence store crap you can find. You will keep the parts vendors in business, so when I need a part, I can still find it at a decent price. And if you choose not to repair it, then that is one less e46 on the road, which will make mine even more valuable! You know, that 75W-90 oil they use in the transmission lasts like 60k miles. Switch to that in your engine, and you won't have to change your oil for years!

Originally Posted by MJLavelle

I can not figure out why this is always such a debate. BMW paid a lot of guys with PHD after their name to come up with a spec for what we should use. I am pretty sure these guys did not pull it out of their ass, and they don't work for free. So why does everyone feel the need to second guess them so much? Unless you also have a PHD after your name, and know something that they did not, it seems like a waste of time and effort to try to prove them wrong. It is so damn simple to just use the oil, coolant, and gas that BMW reccomends, and not have to worry that you may be wrong. It is not as if you are really saving any significant money by not following their advice. If they made it difficult to find, or significantly more expensive to use what they reccomend, then it may be worth a second look. But some of you are actually paying more to use something they don't reccomend.
To me, it seems like a simple thing to do. Use what they tell you to use. They are not profiting from their reccomendations. If they wanted to do that, they would not let any other company know the specific additives that make up the BMW LL-01 spec, and they would be the only vendor for it, and they would charge a fortune. If that was the case, I would be researching the spec, and looking for something close. But that is not the case, so why all of the 2nd guessing the experts? It is simple. Use what they say to use, and scratch that off your list of things to worry about.
But, use what you want. You may be fine, you may not. You may not own the car if/when the problems show up. I plan on keeping mine, so I see no need to second guess them. In fact, I suggest all of you use the cheapest, non-synthetic, convienence store crap you can find. You will keep the parts vendors in business, so when I need a part, I can still find it at a decent price. And if you choose not to repair it, then that is one less e46 on the road, which will make mine even more valuable! You know, that 75W-90 oil they use in the transmission lasts like 60k miles. Switch to that in your engine, and you won't have to change your oil for years!

Yep, just buy any LL01 oil. There are plenty to choose from.

Originally Posted by dknightd

...Is ll-02 ok? ....

LL-02 doesn't exist. LL-04 however, does. And although LL-01 is recommended for M52TU and M54 engines, LL-04 is "allowed" for M54 but only in countries with high quality fuels, like EU countries plus Norway, Switzerland...excluding your and my country, for example. For M52TU (323i/CI / 328i/CI) both LL-98 and LL-01 are approved oils by BMW.