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Old 10-16-2012, 08:44 PM   #21
Zell
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Originally Posted by E46Mango View Post
I know you don't mean harm but do not ever jack up the car from the aluminum reinforcement near the differential. It should be lifted from the subframe body itself. As far as the rest of the points go, only the four jack pads around the perimeter of the vehicle. TIS reinforces this.

Under no circumstances should you lift the car by the "frame rails." Those aren't really rails, but merely boxed sheet metal. They're not meant to support the weight in the car in one spot as they aren't reinforced/designed for that purpose. Any creased/boxed sections contribute to the overall structural integrity of the vehicle and are not meant for lifting purposes. You can easily poke a hole through your floor pan if you do this, ,especially if the jacking area is small (like a small auto parts store chinese jack)
That's what I was afraid of. I haven't found any definitive answers on it at all, that's the problem I've had.

Some people have said you can hold them up by those "rail" things (though I just call them frame rails since they look like them and it seems to just be a carry-over from the old days), others have not. Honestly I do not know. I've always been nervous doing so, but it seems like it holds fairly well with a good block of wood. I remember a few places in which Bentley mentioned them.

I don't know, I need to do more research. I got most of that information from this thread:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=348089





It also seems to be a widely debated topic:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=412799&page=2

I would greatly appreciate it if you could help explain that to me, or if someone that used to be a tech can let me know. I've always gone right around that green spot with a plank of wood.

Edit: That part is called "Rear Engine Support," P/N 41117047885.



http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...41&fg=10&hl=10

Thoughts, anyone? It looks like it's connected to part 1, "Front Engine Support," which is a very strong part. I am also noticing part 9, "Engine Support Reinforcement," connects seemingly right where it would join to that "Front Engine Support" (if it in fact does), which would make me wonder if this part actually is connected directly to "Front Engine Support." In that case, I would imagine that the closer to the front you are, the more stress you'd put on that engine support rather than the floor pan.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:51 PM   #22
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Using lifts at work has spoiled me. >.<

To generally muddy the thread and also contribute a different opinion from someone who has done this WAY too effin' much:
I never, never ever jack "one side and then the other." This puts lateral loads on the jack stands, which are sketchy enough as-is in my opinion. Some of my friends do it this way (lowered Miata specifically, no front jack point), and it really irks me. If I still had an e46, I would just use the nub and be damned if it crushes in a little. The subframe is underneath, not a major issue imo.

I also don't agree with chocked, in gear, e-brake on while jacking the front. While it is good to have something there to prevent the car rolling away from you (or into you, for that matter ) (also, I use a piece of chopped wood...readily available, cheap, and perfectly wedge-shaped), I dislike setting the front down on jackstands and then releasing the tension from the e-brake. I prefer to let the suspension settle naturally as weight is transferred the the rear from the front being raised. That only happens if the rear wheels can turn a little bit.

I saw someone mention jacking the rear with the front on ramps, I think...maybe I misread, but I would really hope no one who's attempting to jack up a vehicle is that stupid.

Edit: I use the frame rails on my e30, which doesn't have jacking pads like the e46, but a pinch rail which is supposed to be used "by the book." Much like exploding cooling systems, I think the hesitation is chicken littling a bit too much. I think red, green, or yellow in the above post would be acceptable, although jack pad is obviously preferred...and no reason to not use them. Proceed with caution however, ymmv.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:12 PM   #23
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All I'm scared of is if I could like. Bend my car or floor pan or something. Basically expensive damage that totals it is what I fear.

I don't know much about body work and structural integrity of vehicles at all. That's a subject I know very little about. All I want to be sure of is I am not bending my vehicle or whatnot, or totally ruining its structural integrity and not realizing it. I want my car to be safe and sellable in the future.

There's not a lot of information about this on the web, and it is a bit disappointing. A lot of people like to use the engine reinforcement plate, but I've read in a lot of places not to do that. It just seems so difficult to get this car up on stands without a lift.

The only information I have on this is stuff I read in Bentley and what I have seen others say who claim to have good domain knowledge on bodywork.

As my friend helping me do FCABs put it,

"Jeeze, your car has a ton of rules for jacking it up! My 240sx is easy to jack up."

Edit: You know what, I think I'll call my indy tomorrow and ask him specifically what he thinks.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:49 PM   #24
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Too many people, myself included, have used the aluminum plate with no adverse affects. I think a lot of people are a little too anal about jacking (ahem...I mean, uh...).
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:41 PM   #25
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And BTW about 6 million other forums members have the same quote in their sig, a little played out.
I've had that in my sig for years. (I have'nt seen any others)

There are also millions of black ZHP's around here, are they played out?

Thanks for you input anyway.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:44 AM   #26
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To generally muddy the thread and also contribute a different opinion from someone who has done this WAY too effin' much:
I never, never ever jack "one side and then the other." This puts lateral loads on the jack stands, which are sketchy enough as-is in my opinion. If I still had an e46, I would just use the nub and be damned if it crushes in a little. The subframe is underneath, not a major issue imo.
i agree, jacking one side is not a good idea on a high teetering jack stand. not to mention the plastic emergency jack pad which can break with a side load.
there as so many instructions out on proper jacking of BMWs to jackstands and they all say to lift at the center points.

(a member linked me to this in their questions asked me in my night readings in my inbox PMs. so I don't have links to better acticles to supply at this hr but will do so and edit this out.)
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:50 AM   #27
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Just to be sure, could someone please verify I used to correct spot to lift the rear with a jack?

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:01 PM   #28
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Just to be sure, could someone please verify I used to correct spot to lift the rear with a jack?

Yes, use that. Has never been a problem in the many times I've lifted my car or a couple friends by the same point.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:51 PM   #29
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"that" is your subframe. and yes that is fine. better to use wood there.

the other green areas in the above pics are NOT fine. those are NOT "Frame rails" like a pick-up truck frame rail. you could take a dremel and cut right through those "frame rails" quite easily. Any load placed on a small area of that "frame rail" could deform it. The unibody as a whole is strong, but load concentrated on any one small part of it can be permanently damaging. in a nutshell, it's not designed to bear the weight of the car in that small little area. This is why the jackpad areas are reinforced--because it's designed for lifting.

don't do it.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:08 PM   #30
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Just to be sure, could someone please verify I used to correct spot to lift the rear with a jack?

yes that is correct. as mentioned above i would use a piece of wood (type that is soft enough to indent before splintering apart) to protect the metal. or some use a hockey puck in instances to protect. (i have a round rubber jack pad added on my snap-on jack)

in some case many professionals say you can lift by the diff. i do not like this idea for two reason. one it puts some unusal strain on the diff bushing. the second is that too often people put under the cover as well. this then moves the sealed diff cover and starts new leaks. but in a bind it too is "allowed", but avoid under the cover.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:12 PM   #31
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yes that is correct. as mentioned above i would use a piece of wood (type that is soft enough to indent before splintering apart) to protect the metal. or some use a hockey puck in instances to protect. (i have a round rubber jack pad added on my snap-on jack)

in some case many professionals say you can lift by the diff. i do not like this idea for two reason. one it puts some unusal strain on the diff bushing. the second is that too often people put under the cover as well. this then moves the sealed diff cover and starts new leaks. but in a bind it too is "allowed", but avoid under the cover.
Keep this kind of agreement going and I might let you be The Patriot's assistant. Just gotta pay the $8 for a premium membership though.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:43 PM   #32
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Q
Iím attempting to replace the brake pads on my 2003 525i. I want to put the front end on jack stands, but it looks like there is only one place to put the floor jack, to raise the car on each side. If Iím using that place for the jack, where do I put the jack stand, before I remove the jack?

A
We find that the late model BMWs, that have full splash shields under the car, can be a bit frustrating in respect to placing jack stands. If the front of the uni-body frame rails or the engine crossmember are exposed, you can place the stands or the jack there. If using the frame rails, place the jack or the stands at the point just before the frame units curve up, along the firewall. You can also use the control arm bushing mounting points as a temporary stand location. These are often not covered by the splash panels. Alternately, you can jack the vehicle up, temporarily place a jack stand under the control arm (or something that would keep the car from falling if the jack failed (keep the jack in-place), remove the splash panels to expose frame rails, engine crossmembers, etc. You can then re-jack from either a frame rail, the crossmember or the rocker panel lifting pads and reposition the stands on the rails, crossmember or the rocker panel pads.
http://blog.bavauto.com/6718/bmw-lat...8-e39-e46-etc/

That's convincing enough for me. Green location it is.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:50 PM   #33
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http://blog.bavauto.com/6718/bmw-lat...8-e39-e46-etc/

That's convincing enough for me. Green location it is.
Eh... I'd take anything BavAuto says with a grain of salt. They're just a vendor with the ability to blog. For the trillionth time, those are NOT frame rails. If you ever see a video on how cars are constructed, the entire unibody is stamped from sheet metal or sheet aluminum. Although those parts are "boxed" for strength (half boxed really), they're not meant to take concentrated loads the size of a jackpad. If you lifted the entire "rail" evenly on BOTH sides of the car, that may be permissible. But even then, I'd try not to. I've seen those deformed on BMWs before from botched jacking attempts. I've seen a camry drivers seat tilt to one side due to someone trying to jack on the "frame rail."

They're not frame rails. These cars are NOT body-on-frame design. There is no frame.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:14 PM   #34
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I dont see what the big deal is; driver side - lift car via front fender with left hand, place stand with right. Passenger side - just switch hands. Do you guys even lift?

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Old 10-25-2012, 04:50 AM   #35
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Keep this kind of agreement going and I might let you be The Patriot's assistant. Just gotta pay the $8 for a premium membership though.
but $8 will get me a pint of Guinness

2 dollar and a signed dmax green tire?
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:18 AM   #36
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http://blog.bavauto.com/6718/bmw-lat...8-e39-e46-etc/

That's convincing enough for me. Green location it is.
They are still called frame rails, regardless of body-on-frame or unibody design.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:34 AM   #37
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They are still called frame rails, regardless of body-on-frame or unibody design.
Doesn't surprise me you would agree with lifting the car using a jack from there (green locations)

Is this correct?
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:35 AM   #38
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but $8 will get me a pint of Guinness

2 dollar and a signed dmax green tire?
depends. is a signed dmax green tire worth $6 to Tim for ///OEM membership payment??

Do you have any opinions on the green area?
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:13 PM   #39
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Doesn't surprise me you would agree with lifting the car using a jack from there (green locations)

Is this correct?
I've always placed my jack stands under the frame rails of my cars. The stands I use have square tops and cover a couple square inches of the rail, so no worry about poking through it. I wouldn't lift from them or support a single corner though, only front/back together.

If you watch how the body is lifted and moved around during the manufacturing process, the rails are used to lift/support many times. As long as your stands are not 1 in diameter circles and can cover a decent amount of rail, going over each edge, you should be fine.

But of course, I will agree to disagree with Mango.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:17 PM   #40
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I've always placed my jack stands under the frame rails of my cars. The stands I use have square tops and cover a couple square inches of the rail, so no worry about poking through it. I wouldn't lift from them or support a single corner though, only front/back together.

If you watch how the body is lifted and moved around during the manufacturing process, the rails are used to lift/support many times. As long as your stands are not 1 in diameter circles and can cover a decent amount of rail, going over each edge, you should be fine.

But of course, I will agree to disagree with Mango.
Again, like I said, people are talking about lifting one corner of the car at a time using a jack. They're not talking using a lift that costs five-figures to lift both "rails" using their entire length. The load would be distributed evenly in that case. Not in the case with a autozone jack with a small solid iron puck smaller than your fist. Big difference. Again, lifting points were put into place for a reason.

Your cars, guys. Once you damage the floor, there's no going back.

Words are important, people. Look at them carefully!
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