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Old 10-23-2012, 12:04 AM   #21
truckums
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Car looks great. Any more progress?
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:01 PM   #22
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I am assuming FSR is building your mani, right? Very exciting. FSR, AFAIK, has done extensive testing on their tubular mani. Sit down with them and make SURE they have given EGT's a LOT of thought as far as runner length and design. You MUST make certain that you are not going to have a rogue cylinder that is running super hot with elevated EGT from a MAX effort build..capiche? Running E-85 will help. It IS a custom one off mani so there is that issue!

Rears: 17 inch x 11 or 11.5 inches. Will need MAJOR cut, trim and fender flaring. 315mm tires should fit. Your body guy has to be super aggressive, however.

a modified Quick Spool Valve (so it will physically fit the engine bay) would be awesome for driveability. Look in to that. Need a twin scroll turbo housing. you dont HAVE to get a QSV, but it is highly recommended ...especially if you go over 71mm for a turbo size!

OS Gikken Super Lock LSD. A must have. I LIKE your diff brace. Mandatory. "Nuff said.
Axles...covered. DSS FTW.

Clutch, what ever. You will figure that out. Clutch Masters? Talk to HPF. They have something figured out already.

2150 cc FIC injectors. Forget about a perfect idle on straight pump gas...aint gonna happen

Intake PIPE! Critical. must be super non restrictive. Use giant hollow AFE filter. You may have to lose your AC compressor. It CAN be done and retain the AC. Very tricky. If you have great exhaust mani, you must have great intake pipe and filter, right???

HUGE -10 AN fuel lines, -6AN or even -8AN return lines...Kevlar braided Teflon core. All -AN fittings. Do it right. Monster fuel pumps. Need over 1000 lbs per hour fuel flow if using E-85.

I recommend the PRO SERIES EFI FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR made by Areomotive. 300 bux at Jeggs. Anything smaller and the flow is not correct for using E-85 making 1000RWHP. Anything over 600lbs an hour you need to upgrade to the PRO SERIES FPR. Dont let anyone talk you into anything less.
Its an awesome FPR. Big chunk of billet!!! http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeromotive/027/13110/10002/-1


Fancy silver faced pressure gauge,,,,not too expensive. JEGGS again. Buy 60 psi max....18 bux! Steal!
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...41010/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...41025small.jpg


Use Jeggs for AN fittings. Use Pegasus for Kevelar braided , teflon cored fuel line'

You can use SOLID SS tubing for under car fuel line too!!! More durable than anything else. You need Pegasus PROPRIETARY -AN fittings for any teflon cored fuel line. Every manufacturer is the same regarding this. Feel free to buy JEGGS -AN fittings for anything else other than something that is not permanently attached to any hose.

BTW, Jeggs has a LIBERAL return policy...up to an entire YEAR, yon can return stuff. I tested that out. They really honor that shiite. No kidding!!!

I would use the smallest turbo I could and run a crap load of boost if you have REALLY good intake and exhaust flow and E-85. In theory, you should be able to get 1000 rwhp with just a PT 7175. Supras with 2JZ motors achieve this. But everything has got to be JUST right for that to happen.
No one has gotten this sort of efficiency yet from an S54 motor....YET!!! I am positive that this efficiency level is possible VERY soon!!!

You have to have a LOT of confidence in intake and exhaust flows.
Larry has NO problem of running up to 40 psi (if needed) when using E85. That is a ballsy move and only recommended for the extremely brave. But, it has been done.

Somebody is going to get 1000 rwhp out of a PT 7175. But to be on the safe side, a 76mm is probably a better idea, unless you want to roll the dice.

I got more but this post is plenty long enough.

Oh, some kind of fuel accumulator so your fuel pump does not suck air. I forget the term. Somebody will bring that up. VERY important, critical one might say. I have a fuel cell so I forget the NAME of what you need.
Sorry for the long post. You asked. I brought up key areas.
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:00 PM   #23
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Coles notes ^^^

Ahem...Blah Blah Blah...

Good day
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:00 AM   #24
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I literally sigh everytime b dave posts
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:50 AM   #25
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Thanks for the Feedback Dave! Most of that is Covered already. You can see the Intake Manifold that's going on the car on FSR's Site, they just built it on the Shop M3, but with Bigger Runners for my car.

I'm not sure what they are planning for the fuel system yet, apart from doing a large Surge Tank to handle the volume needed for E85.

I'm not going to say which turbo yet, but it's bigger than a 71. So it should be a do-able goal.

Probably having a custom Diff Built to handle the power + use it as a way to help tune the gearing. I'm probably going to drag the car at first, but then I want to build it for roll on racing and perhaps the Texas Mile. =P

FSR is taking care of most of the details for me, as they know their ****, so I'm not super aware of things like which fitting choices they made etc. They want to make as much power or more than I do, so I kind of let them have free reign. They have built a car for me previously, so I have a lot of faith in those guys. They do good work.

Either way, I appreciate the feedback! I'm looking forward to having a monster of a Coupe! =p
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:20 AM   #26
A4RingedONE8T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdave View Post
I am assuming FSR is building your mani, right? Very exciting. FSR, AFAIK, has done extensive testing on their tubular mani. Sit down with them and make SURE they have given EGT's a LOT of thought as far as runner length and design. You MUST make certain that you are not going to have a rogue cylinder that is running super hot with elevated EGT from a MAX effort build..capiche? Running E-85 will help. It IS a custom one off mani so there is that issue!

Rears: 17 inch x 11 or 11.5 inches. Will need MAJOR cut, trim and fender flaring. 315mm tires should fit. Your body guy has to be super aggressive, however.

a modified Quick Spool Valve (so it will physically fit the engine bay) would be awesome for driveability. Look in to that. Need a twin scroll turbo housing. you dont HAVE to get a QSV, but it is highly recommended ...especially if you go over 71mm for a turbo size!

OS Gikken Super Lock LSD. A must have. I LIKE your diff brace. Mandatory. "Nuff said.
Axles...covered. DSS FTW.

Clutch, what ever. You will figure that out. Clutch Masters? Talk to HPF. They have something figured out already.

2150 cc FIC injectors. Forget about a perfect idle on straight pump gas...aint gonna happen

Intake PIPE! Critical. must be super non restrictive. Use giant hollow AFE filter. You may have to lose your AC compressor. It CAN be done and retain the AC. Very tricky. If you have great exhaust mani, you must have great intake pipe and filter, right???

HUGE -10 AN fuel lines, -6AN or even -8AN return lines...Kevlar braided Teflon core. All -AN fittings. Do it right. Monster fuel pumps. Need over 1000 lbs per hour fuel flow if using E-85.

I recommend the PRO SERIES EFI FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR made by Areomotive. 300 bux at Jeggs. Anything smaller and the flow is not correct for using E-85 making 1000RWHP. Anything over 600lbs an hour you need to upgrade to the PRO SERIES FPR. Dont let anyone talk you into anything less.
Its an awesome FPR. Big chunk of billet!!! http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeromotive/027/13110/10002/-1


Fancy silver faced pressure gauge,,,,not too expensive. JEGGS again. Buy 60 psi max....18 bux! Steal!
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...41010/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...41025small.jpg


Use Jeggs for AN fittings. Use Pegasus for Kevelar braided , teflon cored fuel line'

You can use SOLID SS tubing for under car fuel line too!!! More durable than anything else. You need Pegasus PROPRIETARY -AN fittings for any teflon cored fuel line. Every manufacturer is the same regarding this. Feel free to buy JEGGS -AN fittings for anything else other than something that is not permanently attached to any hose.

BTW, Jeggs has a LIBERAL return policy...up to an entire YEAR, yon can return stuff. I tested that out. They really honor that shiite. No kidding!!!

I would use the smallest turbo I could and run a crap load of boost if you have REALLY good intake and exhaust flow and E-85. In theory, you should be able to get 1000 rwhp with just a PT 7175. Supras with 2JZ motors achieve this. But everything has got to be JUST right for that to happen.
No one has gotten this sort of efficiency yet from an S54 motor....YET!!! I am positive that this efficiency level is possible VERY soon!!!

You have to have a LOT of confidence in intake and exhaust flows.
Larry has NO problem of running up to 40 psi (if needed) when using E85. That is a ballsy move and only recommended for the extremely brave. But, it has been done.

Somebody is going to get 1000 rwhp out of a PT 7175. But to be on the safe side, a 76mm is probably a better idea, unless you want to roll the dice.

I got more but this post is plenty long enough.

Oh, some kind of fuel accumulator so your fuel pump does not suck air. I forget the term. Somebody will bring that up. VERY important, critical one might say. I have a fuel cell so I forget the NAME of what you need.
Sorry for the long post. You asked. I brought up key areas.
I keep reading your lengthy responses and continue to wonder, wtf. Who do you think has the funds to either 1, afford to build a manifold in solidworks or cad in order to test for hot spots, turbulance, etc. throughout the manifold or 2 afford to have a shop build a one off with these requirements. You're not talking about a 2 or 3k manifold to do these things. Designing such manifold in solidworks and carrying out the tests you have been inquiring about costs more than that just in itself, before you even have a real manifold. To do what you're asking you're talking about a 10-15k manifold said and done, for one, or a few manifolds. Please ... it's just not gonna happen. Who are you kidding? The only company close to carrying out a plan like you are requesting for all these builds is possibly Full Race, and with only the possibility of 10, 15, hell even 20 manifolds MAYBE being sold, they wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. I think you need to bring your requests back down to reality and realize what it takes to make what you're talking about. Even getting a manifold exact from a cad/solidworks drawing to real life, that isn't even happening unless you're cutting each piece of the manifold with a CNC. I don't know many, if any, that even do that, whether it's built from a drawing or not.

Regarding the wheels, are sure you know everything about his platform??? The Z3M will eat an 11 or 11.5" wheel in the back for breakfast, and laugh at the 275 that you have to shoe horn under the E46 M3. I've personally seen a 13" wide wheel with a 335 on the back of a Z3M Coupe. Only body work required was the fenders rolled

If this car even makes it to 1,000whp, it will be the most sketchy car to drive on the face of the planet. The E30 rear suspension design unfortunately ruins the performance of the car with big power. Car squats, it toes out. Whichever tire grabs harder pulls the back of the car that direction. Catch it, straighten it out. Good luck, you have a split second and its facing the opposite direction. This isn't an E46 M3, it's a Miata, with probably shittier suspension than an actual Miata. It's a much shorter wheel base than an M3, spins like a top, and the rear end floats better than some boats I've been on. Top that off with a weaker rear subframe design than the E46 M3 and you've picked the worst possible chassis to haul ass.

That being said, I love my Z3M, and I'd love to run this car once it's done. I'd bet some money I would be right with him on only 600whp. Mid, high 5's on the ground is really all this car can safely handle and actually use over and over again. We'll see how George's 1142whp Z3M Coupe does in the mile very shortly, I'm sure he'll be the first to say that a mile runway or similar is the only place he will be using that much power!

-Shawn-
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:25 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A4RingedONE8T View Post
We'll see how George's 1142whp Z3M Coupe does in the mile very shortly
Link to Details about this Build? I'd love to read up on it!
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commanderwiggin View Post
coles notes ^^^

ahem...blah blah blah...

Good day :d
"I say GUUD-DAY" (FES)
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:29 PM   #29
Bdave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A4RingedONE8T View Post
I keep reading your lengthy responses and continue to wonder, wtf. Who do you think has the funds to either 1, afford to build a manifold in solidworks or cad in order to test for hot spots, turbulance, etc. throughout the manifold or 2 afford to have a shop build a one off with these requirements. You're not talking about a 2 or 3k manifold to do these things. Designing such manifold in solidworks and carrying out the tests you have been inquiring about costs more than that just in itself, before you even have a real manifold. To do what you're asking you're talking about a 10-15k manifold said and done, for one, or a few manifolds. Please ... it's just not gonna happen. Who are you kidding? The only company close to carrying out a plan like you are requesting for all these builds is possibly Full Race, and with only the possibility of 10, 15, hell even 20 manifolds MAYBE being sold, they wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. I think you need to bring your requests back down to reality and realize what it takes to make what you're talking about. Even getting a manifold exact from a cad/solidworks drawing to real life, that isn't even happening unless you're cutting each piece of the manifold with a CNC. I don't know many, if any, that even do that, whether it's built from a drawing or not.

Regarding the wheels, are sure you know everything about his platform??? The Z3M will eat an 11 or 11.5" wheel in the back for breakfast, and laugh at the 275 that you have to shoe horn under the E46 M3. I've personally seen a 13" wide wheel with a 335 on the back of a Z3M Coupe. Only body work required was the fenders rolled

If this car even makes it to 1,000whp, it will be the most sketchy car to drive on the face of the planet. The E30 rear suspension design unfortunately ruins the performance of the car with big power. Car squats, it toes out. Whichever tire grabs harder pulls the back of the car that direction. Catch it, straighten it out. Good luck, you have a split second and its facing the opposite direction. This isn't an E46 M3, it's a Miata, with probably shittier suspension than an actual Miata. It's a much shorter wheel base than an M3, spins like a top, and the rear end floats better than some boats I've been on. Top that off with a weaker rear subframe design than the E46 M3 and you've picked the worst possible chassis to haul ass.

That being said, I love my Z3M, and I'd love to run this car once it's done. I'd bet some money I would be right with him on only 600whp. Mid, high 5's on the ground is really all this car can safely handle and actually use over and over again. We'll see how George's 1142whp Z3M Coupe does in the mile very shortly, I'm sure he'll be the first to say that a mile runway or similar is the only place he will be using that much power!

-Shawn-
I admire you and your work and bow to your vastly superior knowledge on this car. Thank you for setting things straight.
I am a huge fan of Shawn and his work. I would listen very closely to anything this man has to say.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:53 AM   #30
A4RingedONE8T
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Originally Posted by Doulos View Post
Link to Details about this Build? I'd love to read up on it!
The car belongs to George from ICS Performance. He isn't all that active on the forums, what little info is out there about his car is on Bimmerforums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdave View Post
I admire you and your work and bow to your vastly superior knowledge on this car. Thank you for setting things straight.
I am a huge fan of Shawn and his work. I would listen very closely to anything this man has to say.
I can only offer the knowledge and experience I have. I haven't been doing fabrication all that long but I've most definitely experienced quite a bit in those years. I'm happy to help in area's that I'm familiar with and the Z3M is definitely one of those. I've built a few, put quite a few miles on mine with 500whp+, and lived through a bad accident in one that easily could have taken mine and my fiancee's lives. And that was simply wrong place at the wrong time, after a lovely FL rain. Had I been using even 10% of the capabilities of that car I wouldn't be having this conversation with you today. I'm grateful for the knowledge and abilities I have and happy to help where I can!
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:58 PM   #31
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Any news on this?
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:08 PM   #32
Doulos
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Any news on this?
Some yea. it's mostly together.

here's some pictures of the intake side and the rear end stuff that was done.

http://imgur.com/a/Vo6kX#1


Right now I think we're waiting on the Flex Fuel Sensor and my Wallet. Heh.

It will be at MFest in 600ish HP trim, since I decided for $$ reasons to break it into 2 builds. Right now it's still on the stock bottom end.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:24 AM   #33
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Coming nicely together! looking good!
Looking forward to seeing it at MFest!
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:22 AM   #34
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Good luck with the Project.

S54 is a very effcient engine to work on, but the M coupe chasis is one of the worst platforms to work on.

This description may make you angry but its really a bad chasis.

m coupe does FLEX and FLEX and FLEX....

I worked on 500 whp M coupes 8 years ago and their chasis simply does flex a lot.

The nose, front fenders and hood are not connected the way an E36 coupe is connected. On E36 coupe front fenders fasten/secure body parts and chasis.
On M coupe the hood acts like fenders and cannot fasten / secure body parts.

I wish you good luck, even if you will hit 1000 whp M coupe cant put it down to the road.

E36 M3 or E46 M3 would be a better choice, hope you listenn to my advise, I ve on that road.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:49 AM   #35
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Interesting project. Any updates?
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:26 PM   #36
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Interesting project. Any updates?
http://fsrmotorsports.com/builds/gregs-s54-m-coupe

Not done yet. Taking my time paying for it heh.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:56 PM   #37
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Cool build, but honestly this is one of the worst platforms to do a high hp build on. Honestly it's kinda retarded unless you have unreal throttle control. Z's are tail happy cars, and throwing anything over 600 hp at it is a waste IMHO. Having said all that it would be one hell of a straight line quater mile kind of car!
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:59 AM   #38
braaang
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something counstructive to add: go mad with heat control in your engine bay and the first metre under the floor pan.
ceramic coating won't be enough: at your power level things will start glowing hot, so heatshield anything that may be exposed to radiant heat under that bay, use flame proof sleeves for wiring etc.
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