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DIY: Do It Yourself
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:59 AM   #81
NumbaOneNewb
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okay, after reading over what I just wrote, it made no sense. I'm rewriting. Okay, here I go. You're right, the stdwa wire, is showing as an input on pin 5 on the gm module. Pin 6, known as NG wire is showing as an output. I can't believe I missed that. Anyways, regardless of what they were called, when I connected my ground when armed wire, it went to 6 because I went off this site, http://www.bmwgm5.com/gm5_connections.htm which didn't give a name to the wire, but just said output or input on those pins. Now after staring at the wiring diagrams for over an hour, it finally hit me. I've been reading the diagram on the wds spaghetti site incorrectly, or at least I think I have. Can you look them over and confirm whether or not what I'm saying makes any sense? It seems this bmw dwa security system is a lot more complex than I thought. Yes it would be easier for me to buy an aftermarket alarm module but where would the fun be in that? Lol. Anyways, I believe you and I can figure this out. On the wiring diagram, the connections show numbers 30 and 31 next to them. From what I gathered, 30 means positive and 31 means negative. If that's right, then both input and output show as being positive, odd right? That would make me think that I have a positive when armed output, if that's even possible. anyways, I noticed on the other end, the tilt sensor end, both of where the wires connect to show as negative. Based on that information, the only conclusion I can draw from this is that the ng or stdwa wire aren't any sort of ground when armed input, but rather more of a completed connection type of wire. check this site out. http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/zin...B466575001.htm it still is making claim that the stdwa is the wire that activates and deactivates all the sensors and alarm. how can that be if its an input? The only thing I can think of is the gm module side switches the stdwa to either complete or disconnect itself from either completing or disconnect that circuit. what do you think?
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:26 AM   #82
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if all I say is somewhat true, then I think the only way to get the ground when armed input connection that I'm looking for is through a relay or latched relay system which would grab a signal of some sort, possible the pulsing input from the lock unlock function or something, to trigger an on and off feature for me to be able to have a ground when armed wire.
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:46 AM   #83
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Here's a pdf file of a somewhat useful diagram key.
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:32 AM   #84
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I just got done reading the Bentley manual and in the DWA section it clearly states that the STDWA wire is for arm/disarm status and is a ground output. I'm not sure what you meant by the connections showing 30 and 31 next to it. I looked at the diagram but didn't see what you were talking about. Check pin #6 black/blue wire in the 26 pin plug at the gen mod and see if you get a ground output when you lock. And see if it goes away when you unlock.

The Bentley manual said that the other sensor and siren get the STDWA wire from the tilt sensor.... so there's a small chance that if the gm5 doesn't see the tilt sensor, then it doesn't give out the ground when armed status. Try finding a factory tilt sensor and plugging it in if pin #6 doesn't show ground when armed.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:46 AM   #85
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Oh yeah, another curve ball to throw at you. Looking at the door open or closed input, the wire that needs to show ground when doors are open. I don't think we actually understood the electrical system on that as well. lol. This is so whacky. Check this out. http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/svg...6088.svg?m=e46 .now x10148 i guess its called the i bus. I have no idea what that thing is, other than that I have seen it before and couldn't really understand it just by looking at it. from what the diagram shows, pin 18 and all the fading interior lights lead into that box. the only line that doesn't is pin 8 on the gm which connects to the center button on the front interior lights. I have the relay controlling the scanning led powered with continuous power with that line. Anyways, it seems that little black box could be something similar to a computer that controls non vital functions, such as navigation, lights, and dsp through codes or some sort. I guess what I'm trying to say is that pin 18 also may not be what we are looking for, either that or it actually matters in this situation that we tap the the wire after it exits the ibus and into the light. what lead me to that conclusion is when hooked up, i usually hear that familiar clicking noise a relay makes while its switching. I didn't hear that at all. I will attempt to tap into it after leading the ibus, or rather right where the actual passenger floor lights are, where coincidentally my angel eyes connect to. I didn't know why I didn't do that in the 1st place instead of tapping it where it shortly exits the gm.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:50 AM   #86
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sorry it took so long to reply, I've been researching and reading so much material I lost track of time. If you look within the GM module diagram drawing, prior to the wires entering or exiting any module or device, it shows the numbers 30 or 31. So trace those lines right into the physical rectangle drawings. I mean you can't miss it. the numbers 30 and 31 are practically stamped all over every diagram I look at through that wds spaghetti site.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:23 AM   #87
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Here's a wiring diagram right out of the bentley manual, or at least I think it is. I only have a pdf version of this thing. Again, I may be reading the diagram incorrectly. This is only the 2nd time in my life that I've ever took the time to translate what these alien like drawings with their weird symbols mean. the STDWA shows to tie in all the sensors and siren. It does show where it first connects to the tilt sensor, and then exits from pin 5 (I obtained the pin # from the wds site)of the tilt sensor and ties all of them together. Now this much I can say. It can't be a ground wire. If you look at all the sensors and the siren on the attached diagram, they have their own ground wire, which is indicated with the short little line and ends with a perpendicular line. I don't think this alarm system would incorporate 2 different ground connections per unit. Maybe, since I'm not familiar with alarm systems but I don't know why they would. Anyways, at the bottom of the diagram where they all tie in, it shows a little tiny rectangle on the stdwa line itself and then ends in a dot. If it was a ground, wouldn't it end in a perpendicular line? at top of the page, there are 2 labeled lines with the same similar rectangle on the line, one indicated with ki.r and ki.30. Although they aren't exactly the symbols I'm used to seeing, the ki.r I think may indicate terminal r, which is when ignition is off. ki 30, again that 30 number I indicated on the wds wiring diagram website, would have to be a positive power supply. is there such thing as a positive when armed output? If so, how would the gm be able to signal the other sensors that it isn't armed? cutting off the power supply may do the job but no wiring diagram ever mention the stdwa being a switch.

Edit: Lol. Sorry, I just noticed one more thing about what I wrote up above about tapping into the floor light. That actually will not work at all. After I close my doors, my lights actually are still on. When I lock the car with the remote, it seems the car arms itself, with the lights flashing and chirping of the siren, the lights are still on but slowly fading off at that time. Well wait, actually it would work. Man I'm confusing myself. Well, it would work but the grounding when armed wouldn't ground until seconds after I have already locked the car. That can be fixed with some type of device I'm sure but I did find the actual door contacts themselves. It was the pin 25 and pin 26 that I had originally had it connected to, only, I don't think I had it right either. I would need to apply the relay example you provided to me but instead of using pin 18 for the positive input, itd be those 2 wires on the 54 pin plug, diode i'm assuming of course. Again, I don't really know what I'm talking about. LOL. I really don't. I need you to go over what I said and see if it makes any sense. I'm only speculating and guessing, which I do know what I'm doing when I do that. I speculate and guess all day.It doesn't mean I'm right though when I do do it.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:55 AM   #88
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:01 PM   #89
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Yeah, you are overthinking this thing. I swear it's not that complicated. I used pin #18 in my install for my alarm as my door trigger. It gives us a positive signal when the doors are open. You are right that the voice module requires a negative signal, and that's why we use the relay to change the polarity. You tap into pin #18 from the gm, the wire that you connect to pin #18 goes to a relay, that relay changes the polarity to negative, then that negative output from the relay goes to the voice module. This all happens in a matter of miliseconds. So when you open your door, your voice module will see a negative signal and trigger...

Well I'm %100 sure about that part of the circuit. Lets move on to the STDWA. Yes, components require more than one ground. Not to supply power, but to turn it off and on. Think of it as a remote turn on wire on a radio. The devices have constant power, but are not "turned on" all of the time. They don't need to be. They only need to work when the alarm is "armed". So how do they know when the alarm is on... with the [U]ground when armed[U] wire. That's the only purpose it serves. To tell the devices that the alarm is armed and they need to start working. And I saw KL 30 and 31. They are constant ground and power.

If I get a chance today, I'm going to test the STDWA in my car and see what I come up with. I almost feel like asking you to send me your voice module so i can make a video of hooking it up and showing you how it would work.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:37 PM   #90
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Lol. Im almost half tempted to send it to you. Tucson eh? Hm... Flat rate shipping, can't cost that much. Ok. So ill give it another try in the meantime. There's gotta be something I'm doing wrong. So Anywho, I've already tapped into. The stdwa wire. If that is correct, let me check my other connections
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:09 PM   #91
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Ok. So I got a chance to get into my trunk and test my tilt sensor plug. This is what I found at my plug. I have 5 wires. 4 of them are black/red, but one of the black/red is a slightly bigger gauge, it is the KL 30 constant 12 v +. The other 3 are the STDWA wires. One comes from the DWA on the gm5, and the other 2 go to the siren and motion sensor. The black/blue wire goes from the gm5/DWA to the tilt sensor. I tested all of the black/red STDWA wires and nothing showed. I tested the black/blue (NG) and it would pulse a positive signal every 4-5 seconds for a while.

I think what is happening is this: The DWA is looking for the tilt sensor. I believe that once it sees the sensor, then it will give an output to the STDWA wire and turn on the sensors and siren. Or it could be because I don't have my DWA option programmed. But I doubt that's the case seeing as yours is programmed but still gives no output. An easy test of this theory would be to connect a factory tilt sensor to the plug and see if the STDWA now gives us a ground signal. Here is the pic and text from the Bentley manual that support my theory.


Text on how tilt sensor works. Pay special attention to how it states "As a momentary acknowledgment that tilt sensor received STDWA." This leads me to believe if tilt sensor is not part of the circuit, then the STDWA signal will not be present.


Remember, we still have other options if this does not work: 1. You can connect the voice modules ground when armed wire to a constant ground. ( you would not be able to use the shock sensor with the voice module though). 2. You can get ground when armed from the led signal wire using a PAC TR-7. 3. You can use an aftermarket alarm.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:13 PM   #92
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Thanks for the research. Greatly appreciate it and not sure where I'd be if I didn't have your help. I think I have an idea, but I haven't thought it all the way through yet so I'm not sure what it is. You're right, all those options you gave me I'm sure will work but I'm after the challenge. Not to mention, this is a wonderful exercise to stretch your imagination, at the same time adding on top of this already fully covered remote start. I mean, look at all the views you've had on this thread man and the funny thing is, everybody is so quiet. Why won't anybody else say anything? Lol. It's like they're just sitting there watching pinky and the brain take over the world. Oh yeah, for the armed when ground wire, couldn't we fall back to a similar method like the door contacts? Not counting the one relay I'll be using for the doors, i have 6 more relays on me. Lol. Ever since you showed me these things, I had to have more. These things are so awesome I'll make sure I will always have some in my inventory.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:13 AM   #93
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Hey whats up buddy? So i decided to scrap my plans on chasing after a solution with what I had. I'll most likely be opting for buying an alarm module. It's be so much simpler. I Had a quick question. Have you any experience or know of the capabilities of the dei bitwriter. I know it's purpose is to allow easier setting up of alarms and customizing, more useful for a place of business who do alarm installations. However I ran across some info saying it may even be able to allow you to eliminate the chirping to a siren and customize your own. Do you know anything about that? Man if that was the case, I should've bought that and a decent ala module.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:14 PM   #94
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That's usually the route to go, aftermarket alarms tend to be a lot easier and of better quality. I have used the bitwriter a bunch, I used to have one, but I don't install that many DEI alarms anymore since I get a much better deal on autopage and prestige alarms. You can get one on ebay for about $60, maybe less. It has sooo many functions and features but I honestly never messed with the siren. But if you get an aftermarket alarm, then adding your custom recordings to your voice module and adding that to your alarm will be easy. You can silence the original siren without the bitwriter.

You can go into program features that the alarm has just by using a combination of your ignition switch and valet switch, it's there that you can silence the siren and then your voice module would give you your custom arm/disarm messages. When you decide on what alarm you want to get let me know the model number and I will sketch you up a diagram so that you can wire that thing up super fast and easy.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:35 PM   #95
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Lol. Thanks a lot. You've been a big help. I actually wanted to ask you what you recommend. In my eyes, I feel in a way that most alarms work all the same. The only difference is brand name and options. I'm looking for one that of course will allow me to do what you just said. I only need the module itself, hopefully to save some money. I would like to have remote start, but I really don't see myself using it often so without is fine too. I just want something that will allow me to add multiple sensors later on, easy to install for bmws as far as compatibility wise, reliability, pricing, and one that perhaps allows me to keep my original key.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:47 PM   #96
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These are the alarms that I would personally recommend as far as quality/reliability goes: Viper, Clifford, Avital, Autopage, Prestige, some models of codealarm. I have used crimestopper, python, karr, and scytek, but I would not recommend those. Of the ones that I recommend, they are all going to do what you need and want. Autopage, avital, and prestige are going to be the cheaper route. but they are all good quality alarms. I bought my autopage c3-RS915 on sonic electronix for $170. My transponder bypass was $14, and glass break sensor was.... $25 I think. So for right around $210 I got a fully functioning alarm with 2 way pager, remote start and glass break sensor.

Autopage has an rs730 that costs about $120. It has less range on it's 2 way pager and 2 less channels, but it would be a perfect alarm for you. Now, there are after market alarms that are called "add alarm". They work with your factory key fob, meaning you don't have to use an aftermarket remote, your bmw keyless remote activates/operates the aftermarket alarm. There are ones that are just an alarm, or you can get an alarm/remote start. The ones I use frequently for those are "Automate" by DEI, and the prestige models by audiovox. Look all these up and do some research and pick which one best suites your needs.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:57 PM   #97
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Im really digging that auto Page system, mainly they're remote designs. That 915 looks very spendy. Well, that is for the entire setup, looks like a little under $400. Ouch. Don't they sell just the brain and remotes separate? I want to be able to customize my alarm system, adding or not adding as a choose. Hey didn't you say you get deals on these things? Maybe i can PayPal you or something? Lol.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:35 AM   #98
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I'm not sure what website you checked out, but the rs915 should not be more than $190. It includes one 2 way pager and one standard remote, plus the siren, shock sensor, wiring harness, valet switch, led, hood pin, main unit (brain), antenna, and I think that's it. Go to Sonic electronix and you'll see it. I get it for like $25 dollars cheaper, so If you want we can figure something out, but to ship it out to you will run like $10. So you would only save $15. Labor is where I make all my money.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:56 PM   #99
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Ok thanks for the tip. You're right not much of a savings in terms of hardware. I'll update you on what it is I decide to go with and ask for your advice. Oh, can you look at this for me? I wanted to see what you could tell me as far as issues or drawbacks or even benefits if i went with something like this here. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Passive...tem2576968d3cq other than it being a cheap Chinese product which may also be unreliable, would it work? Other than the steering column lock we spoke about what do forsee about issues ill encounter?
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:43 PM   #100
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