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Old 10-30-2012, 10:40 AM   #61
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Push harder..

But I don't know dude. I don't really workout my chest but I've noticed it's the one body part that muscle memory catches up with fast. Maybe it's because there is a lot of people who focus on having a big chest so there are more issues, but it takes a while dude. Keep at it heavy.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:42 AM   #62
M3Inline6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabears View Post
Need some help, feel like I've hit a wall for chest... and I should be making constant improvements since my numbers aren't that great

Last couple weeks I've watched my initial bench exercise do the following:

Workout:

Bench Press 4x5 (Heavy)
Incline Bench 2x8 (Moderate)
Dumbbell Flat Bench 2x8 (Moderate)
Dumbbell Fly's 2x40 (Very light, burn exercise)

At beginning of October, my bench set looked like this:

160 x 5, 160 x 5, 155 x 5, 155 x 4

I matched that same total the next week, the following week achieved:

160 x 5, 160 x 5, 160 x 4, 155 x 3

Now here is where the issue is... this is my bench sets for last two weeks:

10/22 : 160 x 4, 160 x 3, 155 x 3, 155 x 3

10/29 : 160 x 4, 160 x 2, 145 x 8, 145 x 6

I was getting frustrated at how heavy the bar was feeling, so I switched to 145 lbs and got the 8 reps (could have only done maybe 1 more)

My other chest exercises have either stayed the same, or barely improved (5 lbs max).

I'd like to stay with the same routine/exercises (I don't think its the problem?) but I might want to tweak the sets/reps.

Should I stay the course and just keep eating big, or because at 160 lbs the bar feels very heavy (160x5 = 180 1RM) I could switch to 4 sets of 8 reps of 145 lbs (145x8 = 180 1RM) which I can control much better? Will this help me get through this 160lb issue?

I'm 6' with long extremities, bench has never been my forte unfortunately! I try and tighten my core, glutes etc. and focus on pumping my chest up as I bench, sometimes curling my legs up to help with that last rep.
I think you need to adjust the amount of sets/reps. What do your shoulder workout(s) look like? Are your lats engaged? Are you correcting at the elbows once you're under load? Those things matter! Do you have any videos of your form?

Last edited by M3Inline6; 10-30-2012 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:57 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakMyWallet View Post
Push harder..

But I don't know dude. I don't really workout my chest but I've noticed it's the one body part that muscle memory catches up with fast. Maybe it's because there is a lot of people who focus on having a big chest so there are more issues, but it takes a while dude. Keep at it heavy.
you are probably right, my bench progress has always been notoriously slow (and seems to work in spikes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Inline6 View Post
I think you need to adjust the amount of sets/reps. What do your shoulder workout(s) look like? Are your lats engaged? Those things matter! Do you have any videos of your form?
I definitely feel like I'd be getting a better workout doing 4 x 8 instead of 4x5 (and not getting to 5). No videos, when I work out with a buddy again in december I'll get him to take some

Last Shoulder workout was:

Overhead Press : 5 sets of 110 lbs x 5 reps
Seated Arnold Press: 3 sets of 40lb DB's x 8
Front Raises: 3 sets of 45lb bar x 8
Lateral Raises: 2 sets of 5lb DB's x 40 (hate this one it kills)

My shoulders are definitely underdeveloped when compared to my chest, something that I should have mentioned.

When im benching my shoulders are all the way back, chest out as much as possible, lats engaged. I don't touch the bar to my chest, I leave about 1/2 inch gap at bottom of rep... I get a injury type pain in my shoulders when I bring bar all the way down.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:01 PM   #64
M3Inline6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabears View Post
you are probably right, my bench progress has always been notoriously slow (and seems to work in spikes).



I definitely feel like I'd be getting a better workout doing 4 x 8 instead of 4x5 (and not getting to 5). No videos, when I work out with a buddy again in december I'll get him to take some

Last Shoulder workout was:

Overhead Press : 5 sets of 110 lbs x 5 reps
Seated Arnold Press: 3 sets of 40lb DB's x 8
Front Raises: 3 sets of 45lb bar x 8
Lateral Raises: 2 sets of 5lb DB's x 40 (hate this one it kills)

My shoulders are definitely underdeveloped when compared to my chest, something that I should have mentioned.

When im benching my shoulders are all the way back, chest out as much as possible, lats engaged. I don't touch the bar to my chest, I leave about 1/2 inch gap at bottom of rep... I get a injury type pain in my shoulders when I bring bar all the way down.

Under-developed shoulders are going to definitely affect your bench. Maybe you should place more emphasis on shoulders for awhile. Work your way up on the overhead/military press. I also think that you need to stray away from the 40+ rep stuff. You're not going to make progress like that. To improve your bench, you really need to improve your upper/mid back (..stabilization), your shoulders, your grip strength and your legs. When one of those areas are lacking, your bench will not be as strong.

I don't bring the bar to my chest either (..and the suggestion to do so is a bit of a misnomer). Trying to bring the bar to my chest would bring my elbows waayyyy below 90 degrees. As long as you're at 90 degrees (..or whatever point where you begin to feel the tension in your chest), you're fine. The only people that I've seen who bring the bar to their chest are...
  • ...those with really broad/tall chests/rib cages
  • ...those with short arms
  • ...those with bad form (..and watching them makes me cringe)

Last edited by M3Inline6; 10-30-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:14 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabears View Post
you are probably right, my bench progress has always been notoriously slow (and seems to work in spikes).



I definitely feel like I'd be getting a better workout doing 4 x 8 instead of 4x5 (and not getting to 5). No videos, when I work out with a buddy again in december I'll get him to take some

Last Shoulder workout was:

Overhead Press : 5 sets of 110 lbs x 5 reps
Seated Arnold Press: 3 sets of 40lb DB's x 8
Front Raises: 3 sets of 45lb bar x 8
Lateral Raises: 2 sets of 5lb DB's x 40 (hate this one it kills)

My shoulders are definitely underdeveloped when compared to my chest, something that I should have mentioned.

When im benching my shoulders are all the way back, chest out as much as possible, lats engaged. I don't touch the bar to my chest, I leave about 1/2 inch gap at bottom of rep... I get a injury type pain in my shoulders when I bring bar all the way down.
Your shoulder workout is all front head. Three different presses and no appreciable work for the middle or rear head. Redistribute your effort.
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I don't see what is ridiculous by robbing with a sword.A sword in one od the most lethal wepon !!!

It's more easy to kill with a sword than with a gun.

A sword is more frightening than toy-looking gun like glock.

robbing with a sword is a good thing
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:59 PM   #66
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Obviously dont do anything to injure yourself, but I would examine what is preventing you from comfortably bringing the bar all the way to your chest. Any time I see a bar not brought the chest the thing I always think is "NO REP"

Do you not go chest to ground on pushups either?

Strengthening the full range of motion should help to prevent injuries in the long run. How wide is your grip?
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:10 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Glight View Post
Obviously dont do anything to injure yourself, but I would examine what is preventing you from comfortably bringing the bar all the way to your chest. Any time I see a bar not brought the chest the thing I always think is "NO REP"

Do you not go chest to ground on pushups either?

Strengthening the full range of motion should help to prevent injuries in the long run. How wide is your grip?

ROM is extremely important.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:45 PM   #68
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Alright, my routine is being questioned (and with lots of legit comments). I am far from an expert on routines, and I hate wasting time with a substandard one... so please help me build one! (long read I know)

My current one: (I can handle 4 day split) http://www.muscleandstrength.com/wor...out-split.html

The following program was built for me by my old trainer, who was a competitive bodybuilder. But its a 5 day split

Quote:
Monday - Shoulders / Triceps

Shoulders
DB Press - 4 Sets X 4 to 6 Reps
Military Press - 4 Sets X 5 to 8 Reps
Side Laterals - 3 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Rear delts cables - 4 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Triceps
Skulls - 3 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Press Downs - 3 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
French Curls - 3 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps

Tuesday - Back / Traps / Forearms

Back
Pull Ups - 4 Sets X 5 to 8 Reps
Bent over rows - 4 Sets X 5 to 8 Reps
Wide Lat Pull Downs - 4 Sets X 5 to 8 Reps
Seat rows - 4 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Traps
DB Shrugs - 4 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Machine or Bar Shrugs - 4 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps
Forearms
Behind the back forearms - 3 Sets X 10 to 12 Reps
DB forearms side raise - 2 Sets X 10 to 12 Reps

Wednesday - Hamstrings & Calves

Hamstrings
Straight Leg Deads - 4 Sets X 10,8,6,10 Reps
Seated Hams - 4 Sets X 10,8,6,10 Reps
Lying Hams - 4 Sets X 10,8,6,10 Reps
Calves
Leg Press Calves - 4 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps
Seated 21s - 3 Sets X 21 Reps

Thursday - Chest / Biceps

Chest
Incline DB Press - 4 Sets X 6 to 8 Reps
Flat Bench Press - 4 Sets X 5 to 8 Reps
Pec Dec - 4 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Low Cables - 4 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Biceps
Preacher Curls - 3 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps
Incline DB Curls - 3 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps
Concentration curls - 3 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps

Friday - Quads / Calves

Quads
Squats - 5 Sets X 12,10,6,6,8 Reps
Leg Press - 4 Sets X 10,8,6,10 Reps
Lunges - 3 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps
Extensions - 4 Sets X 10,8,6,10 Reps
Calves
Seated Calves - 4 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps
Donkey 21s - 4 Sets X 21 Reps
I don't want to workout 5 days a week, as I like a rest day wednesday (and feel its beneficial) so I tweaked it down to the following:

Monday - Shoulders / Triceps

Shoulders
DB Press - 4 Sets X 4 to 6 Reps
Military Press - 4 Sets X 5 to 8 Reps
Side Laterals - 3 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Rear delts cables - 4 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Triceps
Skulls - 3 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Press Downs - 3 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
French Curls - 3 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps

Tuesday - Back / Calves

Back
Deadlifts - 3 Sets x 6-8 Reps
Pull Ups - 4 Sets X 5 to 8 Reps
Bent over rows - 4 Sets X 5 to 8 Reps
Wide Lat Pull Downs - 4 Sets X 5 to 8 Reps
Seat rows - 4 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Calves
Leg Press Calves - 4 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps
Seated 21s - 3 Sets X 21 Reps

Thursday - Chest / Biceps

Chest
Incline DB Press - 4 Sets X 6 to 8 Reps
Flat Bench Press - 4 Sets X 5 to 8 Reps
Pec Dec - 4 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Low Cables - 4 Sets X 6 to 9 Reps
Biceps
Preacher Curls - 3 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps
Incline DB Curls - 3 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps
Concentration curls - 3 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps

Friday - Quads / Hamstrings

Quads
Squats - 5 Sets X 12,10,6,6,8 Reps
Leg Press - 4 Sets X 10,8,6,10 Reps
Lunges - 3 Sets X 8 to 10 Reps
Extensions - 4 Sets X 10,8,6,10 Reps
Hamstrings
Straight Leg Deads - 4 Sets X 10,8,6,10 Reps
Seated Hams - 4 Sets X 10,8,6,10 Reps
Lying Hams - 4 Sets X 10,8,6,10 Reps




I cut calf workload down to just once a week, replaced shrugs / forearm sets with 3 x 8 of deadlifts (thoughts?)

I think that routine is legit, I have experience with it, so I'm hoping someone can help me tweak it a little bit! Tried to do all the ground work as much as possible
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:49 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Glight View Post
Obviously dont do anything to injure yourself, but I would examine what is preventing you from comfortably bringing the bar all the way to your chest. Any time I see a bar not brought the chest the thing I always think is "NO REP"

Do you not go chest to ground on pushups either?

Strengthening the full range of motion should help to prevent injuries in the long run. How wide is your grip?
I have no problem doing it with a comfortable weight and always do touch/come very close with a pause, but because I am going heavy and at the moment do not have a spotter, I feel much more comfortable with not touching as it increases chance of injury / chance I don't get bar back up exponentially I feel.

Starting to think I should work in the 8-10 rep range until I get my spotter back in december. Last two times I asked for a spot they failed miserably at the task so I'd rather just wait for my buddy
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:00 PM   #70
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What are your goals? I'm sure you've posted them before but I didnt see them on a brief look back.

Both current and goals

Weight
BF
Measurements?
Weight lifted?

I'm probably not a good person to advise you on a plan for anything aesthetic based but I'm happy to help with strength, form, or conditioning based questions.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:14 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glight View Post
What are your goals? I'm sure you've posted them before but I didnt see them on a brief look back.

Both current and goals

Weight
BF
Measurements?
Weight lifted?

I'm probably not a good person to advise you on a plan for anything aesthetic based but I'm happy to help with strength, form, or conditioning based questions.
Current:

Weight : 175.4 lbs this morning @ 6'
BF: Haven't had properly measured in 3 years, I'd guesstimate 15-16% (see pics)
Measurements: Don't have them, need to get this + caliper test done asap
Weight lifted:

1 Rep Maxes Calculated from last workout logs:

Flat Bench : 180lb
Deadlift: 315lb
Squat: 250lb
Press: 125lb

1 Year From Now:

Weight : 175 lbs
BF: 10-12%
Weight lifted:

1 Rep Maxes:

Flat Bench : 225lb
Deadlift: 415lb
Squat: 350lb
Press: 175lb

Hoping to gain 10 lbs muscle, while having short 2-4 week cutting cycles in between bulks of 8-10 weeks

Essentially swapping 10 lbs of muscle for 10 lbs of fat over a years time

I feel this an achievable, conservative goal for someone with my 2 years of weightlifting experience.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:25 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabears View Post
Current:

Weight : 175.4 lbs this morning @ 6'
BF: Haven't had properly measured in 3 years, I'd guesstimate 15-16% (see pics)
Measurements: Don't have them, need to get this + caliper test done asap
Weight lifted:

1 Rep Maxes Calculated from last workout logs:

Flat Bench : 180lb
Deadlift: 315lb
Squat: 250lb
Press: 125lb

1 Year From Now:

Weight : 175 lbs
BF: 10-12%
Weight lifted:

1 Rep Maxes:

Flat Bench : 225lb
Deadlift: 415lb
Squat: 350lb
Press: 175lb

Hoping to gain 10 lbs muscle, while having short 2-4 week cutting cycles in between bulks of 8-10 weeks

Essentially swapping 10 lbs of muscle for 10 lbs of fat over a years time

I feel this an achievable, conservative goal for someone with my 2 years of weightlifting experience.
What kind of conditioning work do you do / have you done / are you willing to do? What equipment do you have at your disposal?
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:33 PM   #73
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What kind of conditioning work do you do / have you done / are you willing to do? What equipment do you have at your disposal?
Excuse me if this isn't your definition of "conditioning" but I currently play intense, skilled ice hockey games 1-2 times a week year round. When cutting, I cut my weights to 3 days / week and have two days for H.I.I.T. on the treadmill. At my peak I was going 1 min x 4mph followed by 1 min x 12 mph for 16 minutes.

That's about all the conditioning / cardio experience I have unfortunately. I am very interested in bikram yoga, and would still like to find a way to add it in to my routine as a supplement on a weekend day, once a week. I'm all ears for anything that will help me reach my goals.

My gym is "world class" as they advertise... I have every piece of equipment available for a standard gym, plus things like TRX bands, kettlebells, etc. Just no rubber weights, and that reverse hyper extension machine discussed on here awhile back
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:55 PM   #74
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Quote:
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Excuse me if this isn't your definition of "conditioning" but I currently play intense, skilled ice hockey games 1-2 times a week year round. When cutting, I cut my weights to 3 days / week and have two days for H.I.I.T. on the treadmill. At my peak I was going 1 min x 4mph followed by 1 min x 12 mph for 16 minutes.

That's about all the conditioning / cardio experience I have unfortunately. I am very interested in bikram yoga, and would still like to find a way to add it in to my routine as a supplement on a weekend day, once a week. I'm all ears for anything that will help me reach my goals.

My gym is "world class" as they advertise... I have every piece of equipment available for a standard gym, plus things like TRX bands, kettlebells, etc. Just no rubber weights, and that reverse hyper extension machine discussed on here awhile back
I would definitely consider ice hockey to be conditioning.

I would start using some weights in your other conditioning workouts similar to what Solly does on his posts. There is a lot more to conditioning than the wind you build up from running or sprinting.

Switch it up all the time. Rowing, run, bike, KB circuit, CrossFit esq metcons, long, medium, short, light, medium, heavy. Don't be afraid to include the barbell. Intensity and variation are key with conditioning IMO.

How long do you spend in the gym each time and how much of that time is taken up with weights? When do you play hockey? Same day as weights or on a rest day?
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:32 PM   #75
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I would definitely consider ice hockey to be conditioning.

I would start using some weights in your other conditioning workouts similar to what Solly does on his posts. There is a lot more to conditioning than the wind you build up from running or sprinting.

Switch it up all the time. Rowing, run, bike, KB circuit, CrossFit esq metcons, long, medium, short, light, medium, heavy. Don't be afraid to include the barbell. Intensity and variation are key with conditioning IMO.

How long do you spend in the gym each time and how much of that time is taken up with weights? When do you play hockey? Same day as weights or on a rest day?
I spend around 1 hour to 1 and a half hours depending on workout in the gym, and that's all weights (From routine I linked). Hockey schedule is random, usually late night weekdays (10-10:45 pm start) or same times on a friday/saturday.

What I've been doing is trying to keep hockey on a "rest" day from weights, so for instance I have hockey 10:45 PM Thursday night this week, and my usual weight routine is mon/tue, rest wed, thu/fri ... so this week I will workout mon/tue, rest fully wed, rest (hockey) thursday, then workout friday and saturday... then have all day sunday to sleep / recover / watch football etc.

If I know I am going out on a friday (something im cutting almost entirely out once winter hits) then I would workout mon/tue/wed, play hockey thursday, and finish split friday... leaving entire weekend to recover, and be hungover saturday. If hockey falls on a weekend, I do my normal routine.

Ok, so I should be throwing these exercises in during my mini cut cycles? (In place of HIIT?) or during my bulk as well? I'd like to stick to four days of weights, one day of hockey, and two rest days to leave time for rest of life things.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:44 PM   #76
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I spend around 1 hour to 1 and a half hours depending on workout in the gym, and that's all weights (From routine I linked). Hockey schedule is random, usually late night weekdays (10-10:45 pm start) or same times on a friday/saturday.

What I've been doing is trying to keep hockey on a "rest" day from weights, so for instance I have hockey 10:45 PM Thursday night this week, and my usual weight routine is mon/tue, rest wed, thu/fri ... so this week I will workout mon/tue, rest fully wed, rest (hockey) thursday, then workout friday and saturday... then have all day sunday to sleep / recover / watch football etc.

If I know I am going out on a friday (something im cutting almost entirely out once winter hits) then I would workout mon/tue/wed, play hockey thursday, and finish split friday... leaving entire weekend to recover, and be hungover saturday. If hockey falls on a weekend, I do my normal routine.

Ok, so I should be throwing these exercises in during my mini cut cycles? (In place of HIIT?) or during my bulk as well? I'd like to stick to four days of weights, one day of hockey, and two rest days to leave time for rest of life things.
I would do them every day after you lift. Keep them short and heavy and complementary to whatever you lifted that day. It should help stimulate muscle growth and prevent too much unwanted fat gain. You might even be able to avoid some of the mini cuts
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:45 PM   #77
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So shoulder day you could add in 5 rounds of 5 Thursters and 5 KB swings with a weight that is heavy enough to be challenging by the 4th or 5th rep. All this is done as fast as possible.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:53 PM   #78
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We are so similar in strength it's scary. I do think you should definitely tone down your press goal though. A 50lb increase on such a small muscle is going to be very hard. I set my squat goal at 50lbs and am a little concerned I won't hit it. Only makes me want it more though.

If you need any help coming up with some conditioning workouts let me know. With glights help and my own research I think I've learned a decent amount and come up with some good workouts that are actually beneficial. I've had plenty of friends tell me they've never workout that hard, they have never felt like that, the pain the next way was crazy etc. These weren't just newbs either. I'm talking guys that have been lifting for years and capable of benching 300 + lbs. it's just something they weren't used to. The thing is that you need to keep them short and heavy. Since our goals are to be stronger/more muscular this is the way to go. Those 15-30 min crossfit style metcons will not help as much as some of the 10 minute wods I do. Which if moved to 15-30 min would literally make me pass out or I'd sacrifice intensity which makes it pointless since calories burning isn't my goal.

Oh one more thing, people will look at you and wonder what you're doing. Don't worry about them. Let them see what you did when you're sitting on the floor huffing and puffing. Btw this hurricane has made me super lazy. I intended to do a workout tonight but I'm not feeling it. Ill be back at it tomorrow and get weekend work in too.

Last edited by DylloS; 10-30-2012 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:57 PM   #79
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I would do them every day after you lift. Keep them short and heavy and complementary to whatever you lifted that day. It should help stimulate muscle growth and prevent too much unwanted fat gain. You might even be able to avoid some of the mini cuts
Ok, I can manage that. My glycogen stores should be fried after a good weightlifting session, so I understand the reasoning I think. (fat stores for fuel)

By that merit, I should be playing hockey on a weightlifting day?

Also, my current diet consists of a 40p/30c/30f split on training days for about 3250 calories (+1000 over sedentary BMR) and 45f/40p/15c for about 2250 calories (eating to sedentary maintenance) on non training days.

Will the extra conditioning addition require a change to total calorie intake?
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:05 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by dabears View Post
Ok, I can manage that. My glycogen stores should be fried after a good weightlifting session, so I understand the reasoning I think. (fat stores for fuel)

By that merit, I should be playing hockey on a weightlifting day?

Also, my current diet consists of a 40p/30c/30f split on training days for about 3250 calories (+1000 over sedentary BMR) and 45f/40p/15c for about 2250 calories (eating to sedentary maintenance) on non training days.

Will the extra conditioning addition require a change to total calorie intake?
You'll burn more calories, but not a ton. Do you eat more on hockey days? These workouts will only be 10 minutes or so, so you'll probably only be burning 150 - 200 calories, so you probably wont need much more. They will help you to get stronger and in much better shape overall though.

I'm probably not the one to comment on diet though. I eat whatever I want and drink every day..... Some days I'm at 6,000 calories and some days I'm at 2,500. I have too much other stuff going on to worry about it.

Regarding playing hockey on lifting days.... I dont see why not. You wont have as much energy, but unless its really competitive who cares. I train pretty much everyday because I enjoy it so much, so I never really think about how I'm going to plan rest days since I dont really take them. My rest days are mostly when I have a work event or something or if I'm sick.
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