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Old 10-24-2012, 02:53 AM   #361
Chris M
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Thanks for this. I'll make time during the next couple of weekends to do the job and will let you know how it went.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:05 AM   #362
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Add me to the list JFOJ.
2001 330CI just shy of 195k (born date 07/2000)
.
3 times I have gone down under 1/2 tank and she starts the bogs/clogs don't want to start. I just went out and read OBD hidden info--
6.0 reads 096217/ if I understand that correctly the left side is almost empty and the right side has 21.7 liters. I have my rear seat up so I could hear her hiss prior to starting up this morning but yesterday she "boggled" down which has been the case consistent with "soft" fail descriptions.

I recently replaced overdue-both camshaft sensors and I still need to do VCG, CCV, OHFG; basically give her an IV and lots of TLC. I don't know the car/engine well enough but would this also potentially trigger low compression as she acted dead(hard fail) but came back to life from previous thread of mine???? If it does/I will do another dry/wet test after installing pump/filter.

(http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...904&highlight=)

I purchased the fuel filter and was going to just replace it since it has not been replaced but I am going to order the pump today and do both together asap!!!
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:47 PM   #363
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Look, I replaced the fuel filter at 50k and haven't had any problems whatsoever with my '99. I'll replace it again at 110k and see how it goes. If I have a chance of making it to 200k with my fuel pump, I will take that chance. My friend had a 2003 325 and had the fuel pump cut out at 80k miles when he was in the middle of nowhere. Every car is different and preventative maintenance is opposite from using all the parts in your car. I have a thermostat, expansion tank, water pump, fuel pump, full canadian-spec CCV system, and a few other things, but none of them have made their way into my car because the original parts are still going strong. If it fails, then it fails and I'm ready and have the part in my trunk already. If not, I'll keep driving it and make sure to keep a AAA tow open for myself. If I see any issues or leaks, then I'll do it immediately. But there's just no reason to replace perfectly good working parts. I make about 500 per week and could never afford to do everything I want to do, maintenance-wise, to my cars. It's all about being smart and making good choices.

My car is harder to tow than normal too, but I'm ready to take my bumper off in order to do it. I don't understand how there can be such vehement disagreement in the name of saving money and using original parts.

I also have my car looked over at every oil change, and have taken care of every pertinent issue as they come along, which most people don't do. So far, my cooling system is still good to go with no parts replaced.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:41 PM   #364
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I have a thermostat, expansion tank, water pump, fuel pump, full canadian-spec CCV system, and a few other things, but none of them have made their way into my car because the original parts are still going strong.
Can't imaging you've put so many stuff in the trunk all these years. And if you're prepared to do an on-road maintenance, wouldn't you also need to put all the tools, jack, jack stands? Lug along with extra weight, increase fuel consumption and reduce boot space is not fun.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:08 AM   #365
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Can't imaging you've put so many stuff in the trunk all these years. And if you're prepared to do an on-road maintenance, wouldn't you also need to put all the tools, jack, jack stands? Lug along with extra weight, increase fuel consumption and reduce boot space is not fun.
In for trunk pics!
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:38 AM   #366
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I already mentioned that it appears?? the earlier fuel pump may last longer than the newer ones for some reason, but have no specific hard data on this phenomenon.

But again, its a personal choice if you want to run the car until it leaves you stranded.

I need to make a decision on my wife's 2006 E46 here soon. I can assure you that a PM fuel pump would be a BARGAIN compared to the drama that I will suffer, even if the car dies in the driveway and she is 100% safe and I have another car to get her to her ultimate destination on schedule.

My 16 year old daughter will soon take over our 2003 VW Beetle, not sure if the VW fuel pumps are like the BMW's, however, once she starts driving out of the local area, I will likely change the pump in it as well. Well worth the investment in my mind to hopefully keep her car reliable. Interesting that the pump in that car can be accessed from under the rear seat like the BMW as well. Will also put a pump relay in it as the pump primes in that car when you open the drivers door! I can tell you that the drivers door gets opened far more than every engine start!

Timing belt for that car is on the way was well. I look at it that I can replace the timing belt and plastic impeller water pump, tensioners and all parts for about $250 in parts and some of my time. Well if I do not change these things, the timing belt breaks, well the head has to come off and possibly 20 valves need to be replaced, then I still will have to replace the timing belt then anyway. Kind of like death and taxes, you have to change the belt at some point, I would prefer to do it on my schedule before having to remove the head and spending far more money that I need to! Also not to loose access to the car as well.

Heck I am worried about my 2005 GMC with 100k on it. I wanted to replace the fuel filter a while back, well it is built into the fuel pump and requires the pump to be replaced for the filter to be serviced as it is an integral unit! This requires the 26 gallon tank to be dropped as well. So I would prefer to replace this pump with the tank empty. This has been a very reliable truck and is my daily drivers usually, so I will keep the pump on my radar. Just did a PM radiator, hoses and thermostat as I was starting to smell coolant, but could not see anything. The radiator owes me nothing at at 7 years and I want to keep my truck reliable.

Its all about reliability and your schedule. I made people aware and then they can decide if it is worth spending $150 on the pump that WILL have to replaced at some point. To say well you may have AAA so towing does not cost me anything, but I have to remove the front bumper so the car does not get screwed up. Well when you are on your way to the wedding all dressed up and 200 miles from home when the car leaves you on the side of the road I certainly hope you still feel the same way then!

I try to maintain my cars to keep them reliable but not go over the top to much. I just hate to have something leave me stranded as with kids, jobs and other responsibilities, it is worth it to me to not get stranded or delayed.

You can see the number of folks that have read and appreciated this thread and replaced their soft failed pumps or shared their story of a failed pump and wished they had PM'ed it.

Even having a pump and the tools in the trunk is better than nothing!
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Last edited by jfoj; 11-02-2012 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:12 PM   #367
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Ok...going outside the box here...work with me as my brain is always looking for a way...sometimes it goes astray.

If the fuel pump is a mechanical failure, inside of it somewhere is the fault for failure. Perhaps if there are brushes in it like the alternator has the voltage regulator; anyone ever look into that or consider the root cause of the pump failure by dissecting it? I am thinking something wore out/wire/brushes etc. but the casing is probably still sound.

I know we can say it is easier to replace it with a new one at a cost of approx $120.00 but if the part inside failing is replaceable and say $5.00 that would help the cause. I only say this from when I dissected the buttons to our windows and noticed that it was a tear in the rubber like boot that caused the window failure; which could be fixed by repairing the rubber break or making a little molded piece out of silicone.
(or how Raj figured out the o-rings to the vanos)

I will open up my failing pump once I get my replacement but for the record my expertise is not really down the mechanical alley. I enjoy it for the tinkering and learning and sharing of information.

So has anyone opened up a failing/failed pump to identify the "root" problem?
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:37 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by love2drive330CI View Post
Ok...going outside the box here...work with me as my brain is always looking for a way...sometimes it goes astray.

If the fuel pump is a mechanical failure, inside of it somewhere is the fault for failure. Perhaps if there are brushes in it like the alternator has the voltage regulator; anyone ever look into that or consider the root cause of the pump failure by dissecting it? I am thinking something wore out/wire/brushes etc. but the casing is probably still sound.

I know we can say it is easier to replace it with a new one at a cost of approx $120.00 but if the part inside failing is replaceable and say $5.00 that would help the cause. I only say this from when I dissected the buttons to our windows and noticed that it was a tear in the rubber like boot that caused the window failure; which could be fixed by repairing the rubber break or making a little molded piece out of silicone.
(or how Raj figured out the o-rings to the vanos)

I will open up my failing pump once I get my replacement but for the record my expertise is not really down the mechanical alley. I enjoy it for the tinkering and learning and sharing of information.

So has anyone opened up a failing/failed pump to identify the "root" problem?
I have, the problem is the brushes are worn inside the dc motor, also the dc motor is pressure sealed and once you force it open it's hard to re-seal it the way it was (if not sealed properly the flow rate will be compromised) .

It would be far better to just find a new dc motor with the same specs as the old one and just replace that part.

If anyone knows where to find just the new dc motor let me know.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:44 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by love2drive330CI View Post
Ok...going outside the box here...work with me as my brain is always looking for a way...sometimes it goes astray.

If the fuel pump is a mechanical failure, inside of it somewhere is the fault for failure.
So has anyone opened up a failing/failed pump to identify the "root" problem?
Been thinking that way all my life and many times a fix can last for years. But there are impediments in the way of many fixes.
Could be the brushes, or bearings wear out and bind, or pump seals fail. In this instance considerations are that when the factory assembles things they use special machines to crimp, press or whatever that are not available to us. Or sometimes housings can be sealed only once, but would fatigue to the point of breaking if used twice.
My opinion is this is an ambitious research project which would probably result in finding that the fix is more trouble and less reliable than it is worth. And you already know that we'd only be saving $120 for a new pump. And most only have to buy one in the life of their car.

And let's never forget working on a device that gets immersed in gasoline and produces internal sparks!

Last edited by Stinger9; 11-02-2012 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:51 PM   #370
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I have not opened up any of the failed fuel pumps, but the main cause of a hard fail fuel pump will most likely be a worn brushes and a commutator that the insulation material between the commutator bars is keeping the brushes from making good contact to the commutator.

Exact same failure as a failed starter motor as they are both DC brush motors.

The difference is the starter can be opened up and usually the fuel pump innards are crimped inside permanently.

In addition to worn brushes and commutator you will likely find worn bushing or bearing possibly allowing the armature to drag on the inside of the field housing, partially seized bushings or bearings, leaking check valve and possibly a worn impeller and/or worn impeller housing.

Good luck finding a $5 solution to the fuel pump failures.
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Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

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Old 11-02-2012, 01:03 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by love2drive330CI View Post
Ok...going outside the box here...work with me as my brain is always looking for a way...sometimes it goes astray.

If the fuel pump is a mechanical failure, inside of it somewhere is the fault for failure. Perhaps if there are brushes in it like the alternator has the voltage regulator; anyone ever look into that or consider the root cause of the pump failure by dissecting it? I am thinking something wore out/wire/brushes etc. but the casing is probably still sound.

I know we can say it is easier to replace it with a new one at a cost of approx $120.00 but if the part inside failing is replaceable and say $5.00 that would help the cause. I only say this from when I dissected the buttons to our windows and noticed that it was a tear in the rubber like boot that caused the window failure; which could be fixed by repairing the rubber break or making a little molded piece out of silicone.
(or how Raj figured out the o-rings to the vanos)

I will open up my failing pump once I get my replacement but for the record my expertise is not really down the mechanical alley. I enjoy it for the tinkering and learning and sharing of information.

So has anyone opened up a failing/failed pump to identify the "root" problem?
First of all, that is a pretty email box you are thinking outside of, if you are just now thinking that it may be the brushes in the motor, or maybe some small part in the pumping mechanism.
The point is that most people do not care enough to tear the fuel pump apart, let alone put it back together, drop it in the tank, and sit there in a cold sweat, wondering if they may have missed that little detail that allows electricity and gasoline work together in a way that prevents then from exploding when power is applied. Especially, just to save $120.
But, please feel free to try for yourself. Someone, please send this man a failed fuel pump.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:55 PM   #372
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Thanks for all the informative replies, much appreciated. If you don't ask you will never know or learn.

Eliott's-BMW--so if you were to replace the entire dc motor, based on what you observed in taking it apart; do you feel it would be safe to use with no parts compromised as stated by Stinger9 if you found a replaceable dc motor(obviously factoring in new cost of total replacement pump vs cost of replacement dc motor)?

Excellent points Stinger9.

JFOJ excellent points as well. The $5 was a reference of a dollar amount...if the dc motor cost $30 or xx dollars cheaper than $120/and is replaceable based on Eliott's hands on tinkering then it may be worth the effort.

MJLavelle I actually learned about the brushes etc from reading JFOJ's thread and was gathering as much information as I could about the failure/fix before jumping in. I agree I don't want to jeopardize anything dealing with fuel etc.
But I do like to think the world evolved from crazy ideas that worked and did not work/trial/error/failure/success..light bulbs, splitting of the atom...all crazy until they worked for better or worse.

I am waiting on my new fuel pump to be delivered.

Edited--pump just arrived after posting here. Kudos to BMA(and probably a glitch with Brown delivering it). I ordered it yesterday for Ground service from CA to FL., got it overnight. The label is ground so I got lucky. I was a Manager in the overnight delivery business for over 10 years so I know how the system works with ground...still nice to get it when I wasn't expecting it until next week.

So, another question; should I install the pump now or should I wait and do both fuel filter and pump together? I have never replaced my fuel filter so I don't know how clogged it is; I don't have access to my jacks(in my POD storage). I am thinking it will be fine to replace pump now and get the filter changed next week. Thoughts?
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:36 PM   #373
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I prefer doing preventative maintenance so I'd rather have the parts replaced than just waiting for them to fail and leaving me and the car stranded. I drive 50 miles to school everyday and I can't risk being late for class, so now that my cooling system is new and the fuel pump is new as well I don't worry about being stranded so much anymore. The car feels better to and I'm returning nearly 29MPG in a 70/30 Highway/City mixture so I'm pretty pleased with the results of my tune-up and such.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:49 PM   #374
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Thanks for all the informative replies, much appreciated. If you don't ask you will never know or learn.

Eliott's-BMW--so if you were to replace the entire dc motor, based on what you observed in taking it apart; do you feel it would be safe to use with no parts compromised as stated by Stinger9 if you found a replaceable dc motor(obviously factoring in new cost of total replacement pump vs cost of replacement dc motor)?


So, another question; should I install the pump now or should I wait and do both fuel filter and pump together? I have never replaced my fuel filter so I don't know how clogged it is; I don't have access to my jacks(in my POD storage). I am thinking it will be fine to replace pump now and get the filter changed next week. Thoughts?
Yes it would be safe (as long as you replace with a new dc motor), and it would only take 10-15 mins to replace the dc motor from the fuel pump assembly. I'd do it if the new dc motor would cost $50 or less.

Also you don't have to do the fuel pump and fuel filter together but it would be wise to replace fuel filter in the near future.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:54 PM   #375
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So, another question; should I install the pump now or should I wait and do both fuel filter and pump together? I have never replaced my fuel filter so I don't know how clogged it is; I don't have access to my jacks(in my POD storage). I am thinking it will be fine to replace pump now and get the filter changed next week. Thoughts?
The two tasks are really independent of one another. Do either without thinking about the other.
At 77K miles my filter was like new. I cut it open for inspection.
All depends on your gas.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:01 PM   #376
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Thanks! just watched the diy on youtube..gonna go replace the pump now!
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:07 PM   #377
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Just make sure you put the new gasket in first and put the gasket flange down into the opening. Then insert the fuel pump carefully thru the gasket opening, taking care to not damage the sensor float.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:09 PM   #378
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Been about two weeks after replacement. Don't really notice anything except having the feeling that it won't fail on me.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:15 PM   #379
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Sometimes nothing is the best thing to notice!

Car just drives normal.
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:02 PM   #380
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Edited--pump just arrived after posting here. Kudos to BMA(and probably a glitch with Brown delivering it). I ordered it yesterday for Ground service from CA to FL., got it overnight. The label is ground so I got lucky. I was a Manager in the overnight delivery business for over 10 years so I know how the system works with ground...still nice to get it when I wasn't expecting it until next week.

So, another question; should I install the pump now or should I wait and do both fuel filter and pump together? I have never replaced my fuel filter so I don't know how clogged it is; I don't have access to my jacks(in my POD storage). I am thinking it will be fine to replace pump now and get the filter changed next week. Thoughts?

Definitely change the filter at the same time.
I am starting to think that a lot of the fuel pump failures may be due to neglected fuel filters, causing a lot of back pressure on the pump, and forcing it to work harder. I know my car was still running on my original fuel filter, with 120k miles on it.
Of course, I am simply guessing on this, since I have not taken the time to learn if there is a system in place to prevent a clogged filter from causing high back pressure on our fuel pumps. I am also not sure if the car is capable of increasing the speed of the pump, to keep the fuel pressure constant if the filter is clogged. So, I need to study that process, or someone who knows for sure how it works can spell it out for me on here. So for now, it is just my theory on why the fuel pumps are failing.

As for your installation, my advice would be to change out the pump first. Then, start the car, and let it run for a few minutes. That way, you can trap any stirred up junk in your old filter.
Then, shut off the car, pull the fuse for the fuel pump, and start (or try to start) the car again, to release the pressure from the lines. Then replace your filter.

And before anyone gives me sh!t for driving around on an original fuel filter for 3+ years, I know I should have changed it when I bought it. If my life had been somewhat normal at the time, I would have. In fact, my usual process when I buy a used car is to assume everything is old, and change out all of the filters, fluids, plugs and wires, and any other consumable items. But, that was not possible when I got this car, but I have been fortunate, so far.

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