Save yourself up to $200 and some headaches - Electric Fuel Pump PM

Originally Posted by ryannel2003

I prefer doing preventative maintenance so I'd rather have the parts replaced than just waiting for them to fail and leaving me and the car stranded. I drive 50 miles to school everyday and I can't risk being late for class, so now that my cooling system is new and the fuel pump is new as well I don't worry about being stranded so much anymore. The car feels better to and I'm returning nearly 29MPG in a 70/30 Highway/City mixture so I'm pretty pleased with the results of my tune-up and such.

Agreed, I was stranded, five minutes from home on a Sunday. Still a pain in the ass no matter how you slice it. Do what you want though, I don't understand why people get so heated about PM on here...

Originally Posted by love2drive330CI

MJLavelle I actually learned about the brushes etc from reading JFOJ's thread and was gathering as much information as I could about the failure/fix before jumping in. I agree I don't want to jeopardize anything dealing with fuel etc.
But I do like to think the world evolved from crazy ideas that worked and did not work/trial/error/failure/success..light bulbs, splitting of the atom...all crazy until they worked for better or worse.

I will say that I could have made my point a little more politely. That has been an issue of mine lately, for numerous reasons.
Also, it is hard to tell if someone posts something like this with an attitude of "you people are idiots for paying so much, and I am going to prove you all wrong", because we get quite a few of those. The best example that comes to mind is the guy who felt that he could get 600+ HP from his 323i with a turbo kit, and his magnificent coding skills. Of course, he had not yet taken the time to even look at the code, or even learn what code language was used, but he had already determined that everyone else was doing it wrong, and he was going to teach us a lesson.
I have no problem with trying things, and I certainly don't have a problem with someone learning more about how things work. I even support some experimentation on our cars, although there are others who act like you are sodomizing their mother for doing so. In fact, I have a few things I am working on, but only in the gathering information and parts sense.
But, I do have an issue with messing around with potentially catastrophic things, such as experimenting with fuel pumps. Especially if you are still at the "learning about motors and brushes" stage. So, in my own fvcked up way, I was trying to discourage you. I also wondered about a fix for the fuel pump, but only in the sense of replacing the motor, and I went as far as looking up the specs on my old one, and looking online to see how much a replacement motor would cost. The truth is, based on the cost of the motor, we are getting the rest of the pump assembly pretty damn cheap. The motors I found were about 80% of the cost of a new pump. But I never considered opening a sealed motor to change the brushes, due to the whole electricity and gas thing. I also realized that replacing the motor would not change the fact that the pump parts would still be quite old, and prone to failure, if they were not already screwed up. That is where my fuel pump solutions ended.
So, keep learning, and keep wondering, and maybe experiment a little. Just don't fvck around with electricity and gas.
Sorry for the somewhat aggressive, and a$$hole-like response. (I'm not prepared to label myself as a complete a$$hole yet!)

No problem MJLavelle; I am at the age/stage of life I take it with a grain of salt..let the salt melt before I decide my next move...20 years ago...different story. I figured you meant well and you didn't want me screw up anything acting stupid.

I just got back in from installing pump and some other things. I could hear the pump loud and clear when I tested it prior to putting everything back together.

I would have liked to install both fuel filter and pump together.

Now since I have installed the pump; I am not totally convinced I fixed my issue completely as I am still experiencing the dips of rpm/like a misfire. Normally my vehicle would idle around 700rpm but I still got the drop down to 6-500rpm range then it would idle back to 700. So I am curious to see if the fuel filter will change anything. I do believe I am not experiencing as much idle/stall/rpm dip but it is too early to tell. I am currently at 1/2 tank so I will let it go down below 1/4 to see if the pump did more. Like I stated I have other issues with my baby so with everything going on in my life I have to prioritize what I can do at this point and nick away at the big iceberg of issues. I will go back and recheck the basics again.

Stinger9-thanks for the reminder tips.

Originally Posted by love2drive330CI

No problem MJLavelle; I am at the age/stage of life I take it with a grain of salt..let the salt melt before I decide my next move...20 years ago...different story. I figured you meant well and you didn't want me screw up anything acting stupid.

I just got back in from installing pump and some other things. I could hear the pump loud and clear when I tested it prior to putting everything back together.

I would have liked to install both fuel filter and pump together.

Now since I have installed the pump; I am not totally convinced I fixed my issue completely as I am still experiencing the dips of rpm/like a misfire. Normally my vehicle would idle around 700rpm but I still got the drop down to 6-500rpm range then it would idle back to 700. So I am curious to see if the fuel filter will change anything. I do believe I am not experiencing as much idle/stall/rpm dip but it is too early to tell. I am currently at 1/2 tank so I will let it go down below 1/4 to see if the pump did more. Like I stated I have other issues with my baby so with everything going on in my life I have to prioritize what I can do at this point and nick away at the big iceberg of issues. I will go back and recheck the basics again.

Stinger9-thanks for the reminder tips.

The filter may do a lot more than you think. I was having hard starts, and a few no-starts, as well as a bad idle. The idle problem was there since I bought the car 3 years ago. I changed the filter, and it cured all of that. When I changed the pump, I did not notice any difference, except that I now had a working pump, and not a dead one. So, give it a try.

I apologize if I have already mentioned the filter curing my idle issues, etc..
It is hard to keep up with what I have written to which people, so sometimes I end up repeating stuff like I am getting senile.

Originally Posted by E46Mango

People with our school of thought never become stranded.

Kind of a bold statement. I hope your parts know their expected lifespans and your replacement routine. God forbid something decides to let go early and leave you stranded.

Originally Posted by FenderGuy05

Agreed, I was stranded, five minutes from home on a Sunday. Still a pain in the ass no matter how you slice it. Do what you want though, I don't understand why people get so heated about PM on here...

My family thinks it was a waste to spend the money. I actually replaced it thinking it was causing some other issues. Turns out it wasn't, but hey it's one less thing I have to worry about in the future. My car has 150k miles and damn if it doesn't run better than the day I bought it. I've done PM on all my previous cars with generous results in the end. Makes me sleep better at night.

Originally Posted by steve108819

Kind of a bold statement. I hope your parts know their expected lifespans and your replacement routine. God forbid something decides to let go early and leave you stranded.

He is confident because he has reached "The Age of Getting Things Done". He knows if his car overheats in the middle of the open desert, it will do so right in front of the only store for miles around. Then, all he needs is a liter of water, which he takes a few swigs from first, and then pours the rest into a bone dry radiator. Then, without bothering to look for a reason why he has lost 2 gallons of water, he continues on through the miles of open desert, so he can get home in time to say "Honey, guess what is in my pocket?"

**For those of you not in America, or if you are one of those snooty fvcking Americans who say "I don't even own a TV" (lying fvcking communists), this will make no sense at all.

MJ, LOL you watch too much TV.

My 13 year old son is always busting on me telling me I need to see the doctor if it lasts more than 4 hours and that I might have low "T". He is also very intrigued with the Bosley commercials and thinks if I got Just For Men and visited Bosley I would look young like him!!

Oh what it must be like to be young and not know what the future holds for you!!

Anyway, Ryannel your family may think what you did was a waste of money, but it was not. You proactively eliminated one of the main no start, leave you stranded problems of most cars. Although you have a 2000, which may have longer fuel pump lifespan than 2001 and newer, you would have suffered problems at some point.

If you DIY and purchased your pump from BMA, in my opinion it was money well spent. You likely did save yourself a few hundred in the long run and will not likely be inconvenienced.

If you had not replaced the pump, read my thread and your wife would have been stranded in the car next week, you would have felt very different. If that would have happened and you would have been foolish enough to mentions, "honey, I just read about that last week and was thinking I should replace the fuel pump", your backside and ego would need some healing!!

I spent $250 on parts for my daughters VW 1.8t timing belt, belt tensioner, water pump, serpentine belt & tensioner. Timing belts will fail, the question is when. I could spend $250 and be proactive with these parts, or wait until it fails and costs be $2500+ to pull the head, replace up to 20 valves and have all the down time, then I would still be spending the $250 on parts I am replacing now. I would have to do a whole lot more work, spend a whole lot more time and have the car out of service for more than part of an afternoon.

I mentioned to my daughter that I should consider changing the timing belt due to the potential catastrophic problem that could occur and she has been hounding me to get the job done. Well parts will be here Tues and the job will get finished this week sometime.

The wife, my daughter and I will all be happy we spent $250 and this issue is off the table for another 60-75k miles!

Just spent $300 on my 2005 GMC replacing radiator, thermostat and all hoses. Maybe should have put a water pump on, however, they hold up well on these models. The radiator was starting to seep in a few locations and this is really my daily driver. So I did not want to be left stranded and in a pinch, so I knock the job out in part of an afternoon.

Prefer things to happen on MY schedule, not the CARS schedule as the CAR never allows me to plan!

Originally Posted by jfoj

If you DIY and purchased your pump from BMA, in my opinion it was money well spent. You likely did save yourself a few hundred in the long run and will not likely be inconvenienced.

I told my neighbor with his e46 that fuel pumps fail on our cars at about the age of his. He looked at me as if I could predict the future and told me he just had to have his replaced! I told him I just DIY'd mine for $170.
He said he paid the dealer $500 for a new pump.

Yep, I would rather spend $170 on my schedule than $500 on the cars schedule.

Think you could just about cover the entire cost of the cooling system for the difference between $500 and what you paid for your pump (assume it was actually the pump, filter and relay for $170?).

Originally Posted by MJLavelle

The filter may do a lot more than you think.

In many BMW the filter also plays the role of pressure regulator. If you are having idle problems you think due to fuel flow - the pressure regulator is a likely problem (hence filter if you have regulator integrated into filter). Fuel pumps either run or they do not - a likely cause for no start due to no fuel, but not a likely cause of idle issues.

The problem with PM is you might replace a good working part with one that is defective. I'm a big fan of PM, just keep the old part around until the new one has proven itself to not be defective. More than once I've had to swap back in a marginal old part to replace a new one that has failed.

120K on a 2004 330i and I'm 99% positive the pump has gone out, car acted like it had run out of gas on Thursday of last week even though it said I had 1/4 tank left, this afternoon after going to the store, the car failed to start I already have an appointment at my mechanics scheduled for Wednesday (earliest I could get it in) but I'm wondering now what else I should be considering at this age and mileage?

I already had planned on having the auto transmission fluid changed, control arm bushings changed (this time with the better ones). I've already changed the power steering pump, redone the cooling system and had a number of small oil leaks addressed last year. Overall the car has been really good to me and I really don't want to think about changing it, but I think I need to weigh the cost of suggested upcoming repairs against the idea of selling this one and moving on

For the short term, you can add fuel and probably keep the tank no lower than 1/2 tank and you will likely be able to still drive the car.

If you are a DIY person, you could order your pump from BMA Parts tomorrow and may even have it the next day with standard shipping for around $125.

Then suggest you replace the filter, but this does not have to be done as the exact same time as the pump.

The pump is easy, just pull the rear seat, no more than 45 minutes with a novice.

ZHPSteve

One might say that after all your recent investing, you'd best not move on to another car where you may have to redo all you have done here.

If your car is not beat, 120K miles is relatively low miles for an e46. Mine at 96K drives and looks close to new.

You've got time between now and Wed to read over this list of vulnerable points and decide where you stand:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...nerable&page=3

Thanks Stinger, fantastic list...a lot of these items I have had done, the ones that stick out most to me are the water pump and radiator...I'll look into those items immediately.

I am very tempted to go and try filling the tank up on the car a bit more and see if perhaps I could limp it home tonight to save on the cost of a tow truck, then at least I could order the parts for the failed fuel pump and that saved money could go towards one of the other items on the list.

Could work out for you if you're not getting enough pressure to suck over the driver's side fuel tank gas to the pump pickup side of the saddle tanks.
Get some gas in there to see.
Good luck on this working out for you.

Originally Posted by dknightd

The problem with PM is you might replace a good working part with one that is defective. I'm a big fan of PM, just keep the old part around until the new one has proven itself to not be defective. More than once I've had to swap back in a marginal old part to replace a new one that has failed.

Well said. I was stupid enough to replace my perfect working original water pump with a s..t bosch pump, which shattered in just 3 month and left me stranded at 11PM with wife onboard.

But before that happened, I was even more stupid to sell the old pump on ebay! So I have to purchase an emergency replacement on a high price and less quality.

Lesson well learnt.

Originally Posted by Stinger9

Could work out for you if you're not getting enough pressure to suck over the driver's side fuel tank gas to the pump pickup side of the saddle tanks.
Get some gas in there to see.
Good luck on this working out for you.

Well I tried adding some more fuel and also pounded on the top of the fuel pump a bit. The car did then start, but it only made it a few more miles down the road before it started to fail again. I ordered the parts today so hopefully will have them tomorrow including the filter. Am I right in saying symptoms of this issue would include the car acting like its effectively out of fuel, possible miss/back fire due to the fuel air mix being messed up? Interestingly I've had no dash lights come on and no error codes indicated.

No dash lights or error codes on the non M cars.

Usually the non M cars may give you a CEL and indicate a failed relay, however, 99% of the time it is the pump as the relay code is really a red herring.

My original fuel pump is still going strong...