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Old 11-03-2012, 01:19 PM   #21
HPF Chris
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EXACTLY what he said. The opportunity to make an almost exact copy of the Vorsteiner GTR hood (only better) would be the safest bet. A SURE money maker. Guys are dying to find even used Vorsteiners on the market. The demand is still high for GTR styled hood.
I am sorry, but the hood shown looks like it belongs on a Mustang, NOT a BMW. Its all wrong.
I already have the vorsteiner gtr good on my drag m3. Is it a general consensus on this forum that a design like this would be the top seller? By the way the vents don't cost anymore money to make. It's all in the tool.

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Last edited by HPF Chris; 11-03-2012 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:33 PM   #22
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I already have the vorsteiner gtr good on my drag m3. Is it a general consensus on this forum that a design like this would be the top seller? By the way the vents don't cost anymore money to make. It's all in the tool.

Chris
I know I would definitely be on board. 2 sided cf hood with oem fitment, and make vent covers for rainy days. You could also incorporate the HPF logo on the underside of the hood like how Vorsteiner had theirs, just an idea.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:06 PM   #23
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I already have the vorsteiner gtr good on my drag m3. Is it a general consensus on this forum that a design like this would be the top seller? By the way the vents don't cost anymore money to make. It's all in the tool.

Chris
Well, one way to find out would be to take a poll. While you are at it, maybe Google "Vorsteiner GTR Hood WANTED". I believe you will find more WTB than WTS.

It may not be the bold move you had envisioned. I do believe it is a financially SAFE move. You can always try a second design at some point.

The hood you have shown us looks just fine ...on an American Muscle car. It just does not have any Euro look to it what so ever...IMO.
I would buy a Vorsteiner copy with all the improvements you suggest. The DESIGN features sound awesome. That will be a great marketing point.

Maybe do the same thing. All carbon and also offer a cheaper Fiberglass with only the vents in carbon. I would buy the fiberglass hood with CF vents.

Try a poll everywhere you are a sponsor.

And yes, most definitely, bring back the optional rain covers for the vents! For some reason I think the Vorsteiner covers were not well designed or something. otherwise they would not have been discontinued so fast.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:36 PM   #24
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Very well said Bdave. +1

The Vorsteiner hood would be a good place to start; it makes sense to try and improve it.

Is there a way to improve cold air flow to the air filter perhaps by repositioning the vents? A way that doesn't involve a ram air, positive pressure type design?

Is there a way to design the vents so that the engine bay does not get wet when driving "slowly" in rain? Perhaps even a build in a type of shutter that can be opened or closed?

For a non-vented hood: The image posted by pilot1ner in this post: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...9&postcount=98
is awesome and perhaps would be another good starting point IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdave View Post
Well, one way to find out would be to take a poll. While you are at it, maybe Google "Vorsteiner GTR Hood WANTED". I believe you will find more WTB than WTS.

It may not be the bold move you had envisioned. I do believe it is a financially SAFE move. You can always try a second design at some point.

The hood you have shown us looks just fine ...on an American Muscle car. It just does not have any Euro look to it what so ever...IMO.
I would buy a Vorsteiner copy with all the improvements you suggest. The DESIGN features sound awesome. That will be a great marketing point.

Maybe do the same thing. All carbon and also offer a cheaper Fiberglass with only the vents in carbon. I would buy the fiberglass hood with CF vents.

Try a poll everywhere you are a sponsor.

And yes, most definitely, bring back the optional rain covers for the vents! For some reason I think the Vorsteiner covers were not well designed or something. otherwise they would not have been discontinued so fast.

Last edited by FragNasty; 11-03-2012 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:20 PM   #25
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Very well said Bdave. +1

The Vorsteiner hood would be a good place to start; it makes sense to try and improve it.

Is there a way to improve cold air flow to the air filter perhaps by repositioning the vents? A way that doesn't involve a ram air, positive pressure type design?

Is there a way to design the vents so that the engine bay does not get wet when driving "slowly" in rain? Perhaps even a build in a type of shutter that can be opened or closed?

For a non-vented hood: The image posted by pilot1ner in this post: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...9&postcount=98
is awesome and perhaps would be another good starting point IMO.
I too brought up the idea of built in shutters. It was shot down as being over engineered. I dont care. I still like that idea a lot. Good to see someone else does too.

I dont see light rain as being an issue. Even moderate rain when the engine is operating and hot. The water will simply evaporate. It is standing rain and debris from the trees while the car is parked that I would be much more concerned about. In Florida we get huge amounts of blossoms and pollen from the coconut palm trees. My car parking space is directly under one. Car covers are way too much a bother on a daily basis. I tried that. No, vent covers or shutters are best.

Not everyone needs one. The Vortseiner covers were extremely rare. Most people some how managed with no covers at all. I would not buy a heavily vented hood unless I had a way of blocking it off when needed.

I think the air flow the way it sits (the Vorstiener) is excellent. I honestly cant see how it could be improved. I think it removes massive amounts of heat. Can any owners comment first hand?
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:08 PM   #26
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I too brought up the idea of built in shutters. It was shot down as being over engineered. I dont care. I still like that idea a lot. Good to see someone else does too.

I dont see light rain as being an issue. Even moderate rain when the engine is operating and hot. The water will simply evaporate. It is standing rain and debris from the trees while the car is parked that I would be much more concerned about. In Florida we get huge amounts of blossoms and pollen from the coconut palm trees. My car parking space is directly under one. Car covers are way too much a bother on a daily basis. I tried that. No, vent covers or shutters are best.

Not everyone needs one. The Vortseiner covers were extremely rare. Most people some how managed with no covers at all. I would not buy a heavily vented hood unless I had a way of blocking it off when needed.

I think the air flow the way it sits (the Vorstiener) is excellent. I honestly cant see how it could be improved. I think it removes massive amounts of heat. Can any owners comment first hand?
The vorsteiners were copied off of something functional, so at least part of the right stuff is there. Whether those Vorsteiner/GTR vents without the radiator ducts that normally connect to them does anything significant is beyond my knowledge.

I can say sitting still, an Asuka M3 hood will have heat coming out of the vents, but I can't say anything about what goes on when the car is moving.

Speaking of which, the Asuka hood looks just like the HPF hood. Maybe HPF will rebrand these like the rest of their products and spin them off as their own.

Asuka Hood:
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:20 AM   #27
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The vorsteiners were copied off of something functional, so at least part of the right stuff is there. Whether those Vorsteiner/GTR vents without the radiator ducts that normally connect to them does anything significant is beyond my knowledge.

I can say sitting still, an Asuka M3 hood will have heat coming out of the vents, but I can't say anything about what goes on when the car is moving.

Speaking of which, the Asuka hood looks just like the HPF hood. Maybe HPF will rebrand these like the rest of their products and spin them off as their own.

Asuka Hood:
Thank you so much for your reply. And for your comparison of the HPF hood to the Asuka. You made me realize I had the perspective of the HPF hood reversed in my mind. For some reason I thought it was a BULGE in the center. it is not. its a depression. SO I take back what I said about it looking like a Mustang muscle car hood. Not really. It is not near as bad as I thought.

But it is still a no go. Plus it is as you point out not all that origional. Either do a really close copy or something really different. Or best yet...eventually have two different models

The GTR hood is just a classic. And what do classics do? They never go out of style and they always SELL.

I think HPF should re produce a classic and later on introduce something a little edgier that Chris may like. Something that may brand HPF as a certain look. I think that is something he is looking to do. He will need to establish the product as a super quality unit as planned.

And I think he needs to raise the bar as far as offering a unique 'look" in a
new hood design. But start out with a sure thing. A classic. Does this make any sense to anyone?
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:27 AM   #28
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I would def be interested in a GTR style hood. One with nice vents and the factory style cabin air filter vent. All the ones on the market now have that stupid scoop or weird hood bulge(Seibon,VIS etc)
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:40 AM   #29
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Very well said Bdave. +1

The Vorsteiner hood would be a good place to start; it makes sense to try and improve it.

Is there a way to improve cold air flow to the air filter perhaps by repositioning the vents? A way that doesn't involve a ram air, positive pressure type design?

Is there a way to design the vents so that the engine bay does not get wet when driving "slowly" in rain? Perhaps even a build in a type of shutter that can be opened or closed?

For a non-vented hood: The image posted by pilot1ner in this post: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...9&postcount=98
is awesome and perhaps would be another good starting point IMO.
Thanks for the feedback you guys. The biggest problem I see is there are already so many variations you guys are talking about. There really is no consistency in support for looks. Many like the Asuka style which is what the drawing on page 1 is modelled after. Many also like the Vorsteiner GTR style hood. And many like an OEM hood with no change other than make it in carbon fiber. We can design it any way you want and the feedback I get is often so agressive and angry. It's unfortunate. Here's an opportunity for people to help create a hood that is unique or based on something that already exists. Let's be positive and help come up with a design many of you will want on your car.

Chris.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:30 AM   #30
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This is why Industrial Design Firms exist, look into hiring one; design by committee, especially on a car forum will get you nowhere. You guys are great at designing incredible turbo kits, but the ID necessary to put a kit together is a totally different skill set than designing the exterior look of a car; even if they use the same basic tools and processes.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:52 AM   #31
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Quote:
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...

Does this make any sense to anyone?
Makes sense to me.

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This is why Industrial Design Firms exist, look into hiring one; design by committee, especially on a car forum will get you nowhere.
So true.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:44 AM   #32
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Chris, you say there is no consistency. Of course there isnt. But there may be a majority or a significant figure. It is hard to base desire on posts alone. It is always possible that there is a silent majority out there that is reluctant to post but may be more likely to press on a poll number. Try and narrow the publics's desires to TWO designs.

You have nothing to loose by holding a poll. You are certainly not bound by the results. It does not cost you a penny. You may have everything to gain depending on the results.

I still think my idea holds weight. Do a SAFE build of something with a KNOWN world wide fan base: the Vorstiiener GTR!! At the same time, or eventually, come out with a second design. Sure, there is tooling and set up costs...

But is offering two different designs totally out of the question? You pretty much may be forced into it. There are many of us that simply will NOT BUY a design they dont like, no matter what. So, give the people what they REALLY want...a choice.
GTR based AND a Asuka based design? This is precisely why cars come in different colors and model trim etc.
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:31 AM   #33
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Make a poll and let people vote
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:02 AM   #34
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People need to ask why Vorsteiner stopped making the GTR hood.

My guess is that the demographic of M3 owners has changed, and that "current" M3 owners don't see value in a $2000 hood. A person that can afford to buy a $55k car is going to have a different disposable income versus a person that can afford to buy a $25k car.

My personal view on this is that HPF needs to decide what THEY want out of designing and selling their own hood. Do they want to make a market statement with a functional design? Do they want to adapt to general market consensus to sell volume?

If I was managing this project, I would probably bring in a big name aero guy like Andrew Brilliant to do both. Chris...he's worth calling.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:33 AM   #35
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Andrew Brilliant is - brilliant. Not trying to be funny but the guy is a genius.

He's done a heap of work with my mates at GT Auto Garage here in Brisbane (Australia) and this year he did all the aero on the Nemo Racing time attack car which won the World Time Attack Challenge in Sydney.

If you are getting the guy who tunes at UGR, I second the suggestion for AB!
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:02 PM   #36
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I too brought up the idea of built in shutters. It was shot down as being over engineered. I dont care. I still like that idea a lot. Good to see someone else does too.
I agree. I just like the look of the vents, but I don't want the water going into the engine bay. I would pay for an ability to close the shutters when it rains or snows
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:10 PM   #37
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The vent shutters is a good idea. Make this happen Chris and they will be selling faster than you can make them
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:32 AM   #38
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The vent shutters is a good idea. Make this happen Chris and they will be selling faster than you can make them
I'm leaning towards doing a BMW GTR style hood with an Asuka style center. The shutters will cost quite a bit more to include which would raise the proce considerably so I may not do those.

Chris
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:12 AM   #39
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I'm leaning towards doing a BMW GTR style hood with an Asuka style center. The shutters will cost quite a bit more to include which would raise the proce considerably so I may not do those.

Chris
Design small flange that goes around the perimeter of the vents on the underside of the hood, you may want this anyway just for rigidity. Design a black ABS plastic cover with 3 or 4 barbed tabs that latch onto this flange hold it in place; you could send the design off to an injection molder and probably get them for like $20 each. Use some adhesive backed foam strip on the cover to seal out water and prevent marring or rattling.

add huge HPF markup and BAM! $300 sealable vent option that people would buy just to keep pollen and little drops of water off the top of their engine.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:56 AM   #40
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Design small flange that goes around the perimeter of the vents on the underside of the hood, you may want this anyway just for rigidity. Design a black ABS plastic cover with 3 or 4 barbed tabs that latch onto this flange hold it in place; you could send the design off to an injection molder and probably get them for like $20 each. Use some adhesive backed foam strip on the cover to seal out water and prevent marring or rattling.

add huge HPF markup and BAM! $300 sealable vent option that people would buy just to keep pollen and little drops of water off the top of their engine.

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