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Old 11-07-2012, 09:47 AM   #281
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Just wanted to share a little prt scrn with you this is taken from a ZF internal program (catalog) this was given to me about 10 years ago (or so) and I have found it invaluable

What I would like to point out that with many of the on line catalogs they are simply relaying information that is given to them from Manufactures (Like myself or cardone or ZF) they are also selling parts

You will see that at the bottom of the page here it shows interchanges and you will find many tags that they are saying sell as the same part number this is why many web sites and retail outlets will sell all of the E46 racks as one part number (and paint over the tags)



Alex Really I have to say that all of my customers are of the utmost skill level Ha ha Just kidding I could not agree more that at times people have no idea what car they are even driving or what year or if it has tires. most commonly people will call and say they need a set (2) rack and pinions for their vehicle. So the fact that I did get a core back from a 323 with a 712 tag may have been a fluke or someone had changed the unit prior. when I followed up with the customer he had no idea and was not the original owner. he just wanted a rack that worked !

I have conveyed what I have seen as cores returned from customers based on what they purchased (years Models)

Below is a quick glance at the 712 shaft vs the 678 shaft as i Mentioned there is a slight difference in the gear (pitch of the gear) can I take a pinion from one and swap them ......yes !!!!!!



I am sorry I don't have allot of time today to make replies but thought I would post a little more info hope it helps

Be well
Rack Doc

Last edited by The Rack Doctor; 11-07-2012 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:55 AM   #282
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Awesome pictures/contribution, Rich. I'm sure in the future I'll be getting a rack from you. Question, when you rebuild a rack, do you also replace the gearing? Does it normally wear out? Or do you just pull the seals and replace with new ones? In other words, do the racks you sell perform consistently or might there be wear in the teeth/gearing compared to other racks? Do you test for this?
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:59 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Alex323Ci View Post
well Rich has said a few things and i agree his experience rebuilding E46 racks up to 12 yrs is above anyone else's here. but he is relying on some info from customers or salvage yards. that could be misleading if people provide him with incorrect info or if the rack isn't original equipment. example: he said he has recieved the .712 from a 323. i don't know anyone here that knows more about the 323 than me. the E46 323 never came with the 13.7 ratio rack from the factory. that is a FACT. the 13.7 was introduced later in the 330 after the 323 stopped being made. i have plenty of articles, bmw brochures and internal documents with this info (being an original '00 323Ci owner). the 15.5:1 was the ratio so something is amiss there. retrofitted or mistaken when sent in is a better bet. other unfortunate part of his data is that unless he is pulling it from the car himself, he's relying on someone else's info. i trust him, not the "general Q public" that aren't into cars so much. i doubt he would argue he doesn't get some numbskulls as customers that give him incorrect info from time to time.
the other things is that 330i/ci/cic-zh package were around for what, some 24-28 months for each model left in E46 production. that's not many. and of those late yrs that they were available there were so many more 325/330i/xi/iT/Ci/Cic in zsp and non-zsp. so statistically his shop shouldn't have come across that many 330-zhp .712 racks. if that be the case it would be more reasonable to deduce then if they break down that much for him to rebuild, the .712 rack is flawed(and i'm not saying that). the 330-zhp is the last yrs of each E46 model and "should" not have as many miles as the earlier year(or same years) 323/328/325/330s. so one really should not see that many of them??

i hope this comes off as reasonable/plausible to those reading and not being unwilling to move forward. it's late but i hope the reasoning behind it all solid and presented well enough to consider point presented. thanks.
Although we don't agree on maintenance topics, this is a quality post and I agree with this man. I hope you're OK with the name "Grand Kodiak."

Quote:
Originally Posted by flashtwosix View Post
let's not get conceited/arrogant shall we? I can name a few members from the top of my head (hint...MITe46 who converted his 323 to an M3).

The 323 with a 712 rack is impossible since the production date for the car and rack doesn't match. However, this doesn't mean Rich is providing inaccurate info. Maybe the 323 owner had his original rack replaced by a 712 and then turn it (712) as a core years later.
Also a good point, Flash but Alex isn't being conceited. I do know he's on top of his game when it comes to BMW facts, figures, and trivia. He's earned the right to come off as confident about his stuff.

As Rich said and as I pointed out, we don't know the history of the cars he's received racks from. So if there's any weird stuff like getting racks from cars that they don't belong on, it could be it was swapped out at some point. Cars get in fender benders with cracked racks all the time and body shops replace them with g-d knows what.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:13 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by E46Mango View Post
Although we don't agree on maintenance topics, this is a quality post and I agree with this man. I hope you're OK with the name "Grand Kodiak."



Also a good point, Flash but Alex isn't being conceited. I do know he's on top of his game when it comes to BMW facts, figures, and trivia. He's earned the right to come off as confident about his stuff.

As Rich said and as I pointed out, we don't know the history of the cars he's received racks from. So if there's any weird stuff like getting racks from cars that they don't belong on, it could be it was swapped out at some point. Cars get in fender benders with cracked racks all the time and body shops replace them with g-d knows what.
With all this being said, it would be nice to get some pictures of purple tags or TRW tags from various USA 01+ cars so that we can verify that they were actually put on those cars despite what realoem says.
If he can come up with multiple cases of '01+ 330s returning 678 racks then it couldn't be a fluke.

Like I said, I will edit my other thread as more facts become available
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:31 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by flashtwosix View Post
let's not get conceited/arrogant shall we? I can name a few members from the top of my head (hint...MITe46).
The 323 with a 712 rack is impossible since the production date for the car and rack doesn't match. However, this doesn't mean Rich is providing inaccurate info. Maybe the 323 owner had his original rack replaced by a 712 and then turn it (712) as a core years later.
really that's all you got out of that whole post that needed to be enlarged, quoted and bumped? sorry, poor selection of words on my part. i should have said "i know some things about the 323", it was late. i meant to come off confident, Not arrogant.
but please pay attention, I already said car may have had it RETROFITTED or number mistaken when sent in (core). Retrofitted Definition: to furnish with new or modified parts or equipment not available (or considered necessary) at the time of manufacture

Quote:
Originally Posted by E46Mango View Post
Although we don't agree on maintenance topics, this is a quality post and I agree with this man. I hope you're OK with the name "Grand Kodiak."
haha, nah i don't need a nickname(not sure what Grand Kodiak even means?), though it may be fun to use it from time to time when we're getting along but don't want to lose the Alex or Alex323Ci that's been getting me in trouble for some ~8 yrs.
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Originally Posted by E46Mango View Post
As Rich said and as I pointed out, we don't know the history of the cars he's received racks from. So if there's any weird stuff like getting racks from cars that they don't belong on, it could be it was swapped out at some point. Cars get in fender benders with cracked racks all the time and body shops replace them with g-d knows what.
yep we need to be sure of what the racks that he gets come out of. that they are original installed parts from factory or if they have been retrofitted. when we get more confirmation we can get a better picture. think that's all everyone wants at this point.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:40 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rack Doctor View Post
Just wanted to share a little prt scrn with you this is taken from a ZF internal program (catalog) this was given to me about 10 years ago (or so) and I have found it invaluable
What I would like to point out that with many of the on line catalogs they are simply relaying information that is given to them from Manufactures (Like myself or cardone or ZF) they are also selling parts
You will see that at the bottom of the page here it shows interchanges and you will find many tags that they are saying sell as the same part number this is why many web sites and retail outlets will sell all of the E46 racks as one part number (and paint over the tags)
Alex Really I have to say that all of my customers are of the utmost skill level Ha ha Just kidding I could not agree more that at times people have no idea what car they are even driving or what year or if it has tires. most commonly people will call and say they need a set (2) rack and pinions for their vehicle. So the fact that I did get a core back from a 323 with a 712 tag may have been a fluke or someone had changed the unit prior. when I followed up with the customer he had no idea and was not the original owner. he just wanted a rack that worked !
I have conveyed what I have seen as cores returned from customers based on what they purchased (years Models)
Below is a quick glance at the 712 shaft vs the 678 shaft as i Mentioned there is a slight difference in the gear (pitch of the gear) can I take a pinion from one and swap them ......yes !!!!!!
I am sorry I don't have allot of time today to make replies but thought I would post a little more info hope it helps
Be well
Rack Doc
Rich good stuff and thanks for taking the time to post this for us all.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:43 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by The Rack Doctor View Post
The tag I posted came off of a 2004 330 (NON ZHP)



There is also a 3rd Rack Manufactured By TRW
Interesting. Based on the ETK, that rack was only supposed to be used from 04/2001-09/2001... is it possible that the rack was replaced and the wrong one was ordered (hence the 2003 build date?) though I don't know why that 330 would've needed a new rack so early in its life. Seems like BMW didn't document some things properly.

Every 330 I've ever looked at had the 712 rack. Not that I've looked at enough to draw any valid conclusions... but I figured it was a safe assumption based on the ETK data.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:46 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
Interesting. Based on the ETK, that rack was only supposed to be used from 04/2001-09/2001... is it possible that the rack was replaced and the wrong one was ordered (hence the 2003 build date?)

Every 330 I've ever looked at had the 712 rack
Or it could have been from ANY 325 since it appears that part number is for the 325 as well.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:48 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by E46Mango View Post
Or it could have been from ANY 325 since it appears that part number is for the 325 as well.
oops missed that. that seems more likely. Or possibly (but very unlikely) a factory screwup. I also know occasionally demo BMWs come with equipment in combinations that aren't supposed to be possible
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:04 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by E46Mango View Post
Awesome pictures/contribution, Rich. I'm sure in the future I'll be getting a rack from you. Question, when you rebuild a rack, do you also replace the gearing? Does it normally wear out? Or do you just pull the seals and replace with new ones? In other words, do the racks you sell perform consistently or might there be wear in the teeth/gearing compared to other racks? Do you test for this?
Mango,
This is difficult for me to answer as we are getting into proprietary information as rebuilders we guard our information which is why I was reserved about posting all this already. In the rebuild process shafts are polished (much like a crank shaft is on a machine) we clean up the gears if there is excessive wear we don't play with it we scrap it (this is called fall out in the industry) we use a simple rule If I wouldn't put it on my car I wouldn't sell it to you. (AND I AM VERY FOND OF MY BMW's) as for Quality I would certainly put any of my units against any other builder especially when it comes to bimmers it is very rare we have a failure in a BMW unit this is why I am not afraid to offer lifetime warranty on the units. (we have had on many occasions the installer that likes to cross thread the threads arrrrrrr now that is aggravating)

I'm happy to sell you a unit but out of curiosity if you already have a 712 tagged unit why would you swap ? if you want to upgrade a Z3 rack would be your go to unit. Changing one 712 for another would be like changing a bulb that didn't need to be changed Just curios ?


As for this thread I can say I welcome any information you all can come up with there is never enough information to compile and I am never opposed to calling an audible and changing my listings on my site to better serve my valued customers. Combining numbers is always a blessing to manufacturer as it simplifies things for those placing orders. So In advance I thank you all for your "positive" contributions to our knowledge banks as I mentioned I try to learn something new every day.

I also thought I would toss this out there for fun. On Many occasions I have found OEM cores returned where BMW has placed a pretty sticker over the original tag with later model digits on them (ya just gotta love that) I have seen this most commonly on the 5 series where the only difference was Internal seals and the way the lines were routed this is a prime place where I combined part numbers to simplify things.

Ok gotta run I have Audi's to build tonight Oh yeah I also do Audi, Volvo, Mercedes, Honda, Nissan, Toyota, and on and on and on LOL

Be well
Rack Doc

Last edited by The Rack Doctor; 11-07-2012 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:08 AM   #291
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thank you very much, Rack Dock. your posts are gold in this thread
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:30 AM   #292
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Mango,
This is difficult for me to answer as we are getting into proprietary information as rebuilders we guard our information which is why I was reserved about posting all this already. In the rebuild process shafts are polished (much like a crank shaft is on a machine) we clean up the gears if there is excessive wear we don't play with it we scrap it (this is called fall out in the industry) we use a simple rule If I wouldn't put it on my car I wouldn't sell it to you. (AND I AM VERY FOND OF MY BMW's) as for Quality I would certainly put any of my units against any other builder especially when it comes to bimmers it is very rare we have a failure in a BMW unit this is why I am not afraid to offer lifetime warranty on the units. (we have had on many occasions the installer that likes to cross thread the threads arrrrrrr now that is aggravating)

I'm happy to sell you a unit but out of curiosity if you already have a 712 tagged unit why would you swap ? if you want to upgrade a Z3 rack would be your go to unit. Changing one 712 for another would be like changing a bulb that didn't need to be changed Just curios ?


As for this thread I can say I welcome any information you all can come up with there is never enough information to compile and I am never opposed to calling an audible and changing my listings on my site to better serve my valued customers. Combining numbers is always a blessing to manufacturer as it simplifies things for those placing orders. So In advance I thank you all for your "positive" contributions to our knowledge banks as I mentioned I try to learn something new every day.

I also thought I would toss this out there for fun. On Many occasions I have found OEM cores returned where BMW has placed a pretty sticker over the original tag with later model digits on them (ya just gotta love that) I have seen this most commonly on the 5 series where the only difference was Internal seals and the way the lines were routed this is a prime place where I combined part numbers to simplify things.

Ok gotta run I have Audi's to build tonight Oh yeah I also do Audi, Volvo, Mercedes, Honda, Nissan, Toyota, and on and on and on LOL

Be well
Rack Doc
Oh I was just saying in the event my lack ever leaked or otherwise became in need of a replacement. I also have a few friends with E36s M3s who might be interested in a new rack. Thanks for the info! Good to know.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:33 PM   #293
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agreed. good to know.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:41 PM   #294
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how hard is it to install/replace a steering rack.

i have a 323 and the steering is too soft/loose when compared to my other bmws
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:41 AM   #295
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how hard is it to install/replace a steering rack.

i have a 323 and the steering is too soft/loose when compared to my other bmws
Considering you basically built a car from the ground up, I think you can handle it.

Pop the tierods, two bolts/nuts that hold the steering rack to the subframe, and the banjo bolts that connect to the rack.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:34 AM   #296
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Thanks to the rack doctor for clarifying this info!

Hopefully some of the forum shenanigans dont scare him off from possibly sharing future info. There are many of us who appreciate it.

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Old 01-13-2013, 09:06 AM   #297
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Don't mean to bring up the debate but I just upgraded to the "ZHP" rack.
http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=965323

but I just found out that my car always had a "330" rack.
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Cool. Thanks for the feedback. Can you elaborate on something for me. You have a 330 right an it came with a "643" rack? My 323i came with a "643" rack (production date: 05/2000). I am asking this question because there is a debate whether BMW sometimes put different racks in different models for shiite and giggles.

I am the original owner of my car. my steering rack was never touched. the only P/S components that was replaced by the dealer was the pump (LK-20 to LK-30)
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Originally Posted by LittleBear View Post
My 330i is a 4/2001 product, and thus came with the 643 rack. I think the change date for the 330i going to the 712 is 9/2001? I have no idea what pump I have, or if they make a difference in feel. Can anyone address this?

Murf
here is a pix of my 643 rack. again, I am the original owner. My car is a 323i (production June2000) and the rack has a production date of MAY2000.

old rack


a list I found on ebay stated that this rack:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/POWER-STEERI...item20cd3b5ff1

according to the above listing, the 643 rack is only for 325 and 330 up to APRIL 2001
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:01 PM   #298
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^ awesome! all the info you posted seems to line up well!
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:17 AM   #299
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So I've read through the first 9 pages and I'm unclear, probably cause I'm at work and skimmed through... with my 00' 328i I just need to find an 02+ rack. I've seen a lot of M3 racks out there as well and I'm assuming I should stay away from these due to the ratio?
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:24 AM   #300
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So I've read through the first 9 pages and I'm unclear, probably cause I'm at work and skimmed through... with my 00' 328i I just need to find an 02+ rack. I've seen a lot of M3 racks out there as well and I'm assuming I should stay away from these due to the ratio?
It's not necessarily a "bad ratio," it's just consensus that 712 racks are best for non-M, and for some people, even ///M applications. So look for a yellow tag 712 rack. (forget about 330 this, zhp that)
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