The Official Science Thread

Originally Posted by Raymond42262

It's funny, Italy prosecutes seismologists for failing to predict earthquakes and the U.S . says we are not at the level that we can predict them. The guy that predicted the North Ridge earthquake in California in 1991 was fired.

I feel sorry for those Italians. They were looking for someone to blame and they were easy targets.

I think you're right. It seems to me (being far from an expert) that the Italian govt has a habit of arresting people and trying them for things we in the US consider non-criminal.

The example that stands out most for me was Senna's fatal crash. Something like a half dozen people (team members and race organizers IIRC) were charged with manslaughter. But I've also heard over the years of it happening with other things, too.

I'm also not a geologist. But I know a thing or two about communicating technical information to large groups of non-technical people, and it's no small challenge to get them to understand what you know and how sure you are of what you're dealing with.

I'm sure geologists and govt entities around the world face the same conundrum of how/when to issue quake warnings. They can't issue a warning every time the needle moves. After about 3 of those warnings with no quakes, everyone would quit listening.

But unless there was evidence presented (that's not mentioned in the article) of gross negligence or extreme incompetence, it seems to me the Italian govt's has some unreasonable expectations.

I've been hoping for some more progress on Geothermal energy, it's a great option for those in the northwest. My home county puts out about 750MW of geothermal energy alone.

http://www.gizmag.com/volcano-power-plant/24633/

Volcano power plan gets U.S. go-ahead

Having successfully negotiated the challenging regulatory slopes of the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, the U.S. Forest Service, the U.S. Department of Energy, and a host of Oregon state agencies, the Newberry Enhanced Geothermal Systems (EGS) demonstration project is in the process of creating a new geothermal reservoir in central Oregon. The core of the new reservoir is a two mile (2.7 km) deep well drilled about four miles (5.4 km) from the center of Newberry Volcano. The rock surrounding the wellbore reaches temperatures in the order of 600° F (300° C), and is nearly impermeable to water. That, however, is about to change.

View all
Newberry Volcano is one of the largest and youngest volcanoes in the United States. Having last erupted about 1300 years ago, it consists of over 400 individual volcanic vents, which, when combined, form a broad mounded landform referred to as a shield volcano. The Newberry EGS Demonstration geothermal reservoir is being formed in the high-temperature, low-permeability deep lava of the volcano's northwest flank.


The Newberry EGS demonstration project is located near the boundaries of the Newberry National Volcanic Monument



The Newberry EGS demonstration is the largest project funded to date by the DOE Geothermal Technologies Program. The DOE has granted over US$20 million to the project, an amount being matched by a partnership between AltaRock Energy and Davenport Newberry.



The goal of EGS is to produce electricity by extracting energy from the earth’s heat. To accomplish this, a subsurface system of fractures is formed in hot, impermeable rock, and water pumped down from the surface is circulated through these fractures and returned to the surface as the energy source for a geothermal power plant.

The starting point for creating a new geothermal reservoir is a deep well into hot, dry rock. Well NWG 55-29, drilled by Davenport Newberry in 2008, is well suited as the foundation for a geothermal reservoir. It is 10,060 feet (3070 m) deep into hot rock with very low water permeability.


Preexisting cracks in the deep rock are expanded by hydroshearing. The original, essentially closed crack appears at the left. In the center, the crack is opened by water pressure, whereupon the faces slip a bit along the length of the crack. When the water is removed, the crack faces no longer match, so the crack remains permeable to the flow of water

Creating an EGS reservoir requires improving the natural permeability of the hot rock at depth. The process chosen by the Newberry EGS project is called stimulation, in which the natural permeability of deep rock is improved by causing small slips to occur in existing cracks, thereby opening a network of small cracks already present in the rock. This hydroshearing process differs significantly from the hydraulic fracturing used in oil and gas recovery – only enough pressure (about 1600 psi, or 10.9 MPa) is applied to open existing cracks, but not nearly enough (over 5000 psi, or 34 MPa) to form new cracks. In addition, hydroshearing uses only water: the chemical additives used in fracking are not required.

NWG 55-29 has a well casing to a depth of 6462 feet (2000 m), after which the well is open to the surrounding rock. This structure is important for the formation of an effective geothermal reservoir. If part of the network of cracks is formed at too shallow a depth, the surrounding rock will be cold, and the production wells will deliver a mix of hot and cold water, resulting in less effective extraction of energy and more complex power plant designs which are able to work at lower temperatures. With the casing, fracture networks will be formed for NWG 55-29 only below the lowest point of the well casing, at a depth where the surrounding rock is very hot indeed.

There is a problem that appears when creating a very deep geothermal reservoir. It takes less pressure to expand cracks at a depth of 7000 feet (2100 m) than it does at 10,000 feet (3300 m), owing to the additional weight of the covering rock. Accordingly, the more you pump at pressure, the more crack network you open at 7000 feet, but you will never open substantially deeper cracks – the 7000 foot crack network acts as a pressure safety valve protecting the deeper rock.




AltaRock has developed a clever solution for this problem. Thermo-degradable Zonal Isolation Materials (TZIM) represents an important technological advancement in the development of EGS. TZIM is a biodegradable, non-toxic gel-like material. Mixed with the water being injected into well being converted into a geothermal reservoir during the hydroshearing process, the TZIM material seals the newly expanded crack network when the water is removed. A shield is thus formed around the wellbore so deeper fracture networks can be added to the reservoir. After the desired fracture networks are formed, the seals biodegrade to open the crack networks of the new reservoir. Simulation studies suggest that a series of three fracture networks will be suitable for the Newberry EGS project.

On October 18 the pumping equipment was running and a water pressure of 1600 psi (10.9 MPa) was built up inside NWG 55-29. The diagnostics (pumping rate, microseismic detectors, etc.) indicated that hydroshearing and expansion of a network of cracks in the hot rock had begun. However, an unexpected night of freezing weather on October 20 damaged some of the auxiliary equipment, leading to a temporary shutdown of operations. AltaRock hopes to resume testing the stimulation process later this week. The following video gives a very good (if slightly lengthy) description of the project.

So let me get this straight. They want to drill in to a sealed off, pressurized system of lava, then fracture all of the bedrock below the surface and try to extract energy from this?

Have you asked the folks down in southern Louisana how living's been since they drilled through caverns for oil/gas? This is a developing crisis that's being blacked out by the mainstream media. Nobody knows exactly what is happening or how to fix it...


Or how about the hydraulic fracking ruining the water tables across the country?


Sounds like another company trying to make a buck at everyone elses (and the environments) expense.

Lol

Geothermal is great if you have the right conditions for it.
I like the idea of being energy independent and the environmental benefits are great too.
We have a big nation and no one idea will solve all of our needs. But geothermal is one of many solutions we can use if it is available.
I think Iceland gets most of its energy from it.
It's great if you can do it.

From wiki............

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About 81 percent of total primary energy supply in Iceland is derived from domestically produced renewable energy sources. In 2007, geothermal energy provided about 66 percent of primary energy, the share of hydropower was 15 percent, and fossil fuels (mainly oil) 19 percent.[1] The main use of geothermal energy is for space heating with the heat being distributed to buildings through extensive district-heating systems.[1] About 85% of all houses in Iceland are heated with geothermal energy.[2]

Renewable energy provides 100 percent of electricity production, with about 70 percent coming from hydropower and 30 percent from geothermal power.[1] Most of the hydropower plants are owned by Landsvirkjun (the National Power Company) which is the main supplier of electricity in Iceland.[2]

it combines both science and atheism, but i found it to be a very interesting video. i apologize if it's already been posted. scientific reasons as to why people believe in god:

Originally Posted by Drex

So let me get this straight. They want to drill in to a sealed off, pressurized system of lava, then fracture all of the bedrock below the surface and try to extract energy from this?

Sounds like another company trying to make a buck at everyone elses (and the environments) expense.

I agree. Geothermal energy through a closed system is a great option and a very clean and renewable source. But pumping water into the ground in order to create caverns as a natural reservoir is going to eventually go bad and when this is done on top of a volcano...who knows what the result might be.

Originally Posted by SamDoe1

I agree. Geothermal energy through a closed system is a great option and a very clean and renewable source. But pumping water into the ground in order to create caverns as a natural reservoir is going to eventually go bad and when this is done on top of a volcano...who knows what the result might be.

Depends on the accuracy/quality of the data their working with. If they know within a small margin of error how big the cavern is and what temperatures the water will encounter then I don't see why it wouldn't be a fairly straightforward calculation to figure out what would happen.

Originally Posted by cowmoo32

Depends on the accuracy/quality of the data their working with. If they know within a small margin of error how big the cavern is and what temperatures the water will encounter then I don't see why it wouldn't be a fairly straightforward calculation to figure out what would happen.

Volcanos are not static systems, they change all the time. While the calculations and measurements might be accurate, no one can predict what they'll be in 5-10 years from now.

I think you guys are overreacting a bit, this isn't like fracking, there's no gas reserves they're tapping in to. It's also sure as hell not anything large scale enough to trigger a volcanic eruption.. The forces at work to trigger those sorts of events are a great many orders of magnitude larger than any amount of thermal energy extracted.

We did something similar in my home county routing grey water to some very old (extinct) volcanically active hot spots.

http://www.geysers.com/

Welcome to The Geysers

In the Mayacamas Mountains, located north of San Francisco, naturally occurring steam field reservoirs below the earth's surface are being harnessed by Calpine to make clean, green, renewable energy for homes and businesses across Northern California.

The Geysers, comprising 45 square miles along the Sonoma and Lake County border, is the largest complex of geothermal power plants in the world. Calpine, the largest geothermal power producer in the U.S., owns and operates 15 power plants at The Geysers with a net generating capacity of about 725 megawatts of electricity - enough to power 725,000 homes, or a city the size of San Francisco.

The Geysers meets the typical power needs of Sonoma, Lake, and Mendocino counties, as well a portion of the power needs of Marin and Napa counties. In fact, The Geysers satisfies nearly 60 percent of the average electricity demand in the North Coast region from the Golden Gate Bridge to the Oregon border. The Geysers is one of the most reliable energy sources in California delivering extremely high availability and on-line performance and accounts for one-fifth of the green power produced in California.

Between geothermal activity and the large amounts of rainfall in the northwest, they're completely set for renewable energies, and it's the best kind of energy, base load!

The yellowstone caldera would also be another prime location for energy production... Were it not so far from any major populous.

This old, but still impressive



And who knew general relativity would look like a drug fueled walk through the park?
http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/

The Futuristic Food Packaging You Can Eat, Even After Washing It


Mad scientist David Edwards imagines consumers buying self-contained, washable balls of soda, yogurt, and cheese at the grocery store.


Remember David Edwards, the Harvard professor behind smokable chocolate and inhalable coffee? When we last wrote about Edwards, in March, he was introducing Wahh, a Philippe Starck-designed canister that delivers puffs of vaporized alcohol. Since then, Edwards’s team has been back in the kitchen, working with designer François Azambourg to develop the WikiCell, a product that has implications for the food industry that move well beyond novelty.

A great PRI report from earlier this week introduces us to the WikiCell, an edible packaging that attempts to reduce the massive amount of packaging used to sell food. "Think about the skin of a grape and how it protects the grape itself," explains Edwards on WikiCell’s website. "This is how a WikiCell works. This soft skin may be comprised primarily of small particles of chocolate, dried fruit, nuts, seeds, or many other natural substances with delicious taste and often useful nutrients. Inside the skin may be liquid fruit juice, or thick pudding."

A WikiCell (alternate name: Occupy Food?) is made from a few basic ingredients. First, Edwards and Azambourg start with a crushed food like chocolate, seeds, or nuts, depending on what’s inside the cell. That’s mixed with healthy ions like calcium and chitosan, a common polysaccharide derived from the shells of shrimp. Together, they form a gel-like material that can hold everything from cocktails to yogurt.

"I get home, and I hand [the food] to my son, and he hands it to his friend," Edwards tells PRI. "And then the friend says, 'But did you wash your hands?' At that point, I clean it as I do fruit and vegetables today. I can run water over it, and it doesn’t dissolve, actually. And it can be cleaned, and then I can eat it."

This definitely isn’t the first or even tenth attempt at edible food packaging. For example, Diane Leclair Besson is developing an edible plate that won a Core77 Design Award last month. But beyond the technical advantages of WikiCells (the whole washing thing is impressive), Edwards might have a leg up on his competition with his experience launching challenging products into the consumer market. In September, he secured $10 million in venture capital from Flagship Ventures and Polaris Venture Partners.

The money has helped the team carry out its first consumer tests (perhaps surprisingly, few seem to have a problem with the concept) and found WikiCell Designs as an independent company. In 2013, Edwards plans to open a "WikiBar" in Paris, where visitors will be able to try the company’s first commercial product: WikiCell Ice Cream.

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1671165/...r-washing-it#1

Originally Posted by bimmerfan08

The Futuristic Food Packaging You Can Eat, Even After Washing It


Mad scientist David Edwards imagines consumers buying self-contained, washable balls of soda, yogurt, and cheese at the grocery store.

It might have a future for the military, long term storage food products and disaster relief but I don't see a future with it commercially.

I think the future of food sales will be fresh, natural foods grown locally, not bought when they are green, shipped 1000 miles and ripened in industrial closets.

I think he is 30 or 40 years too late.

Getting back to volcanoes.....and geothermal.

If you dug a hole deep enough and went 1k or 2k feet below the ground the ground heats up..

I wonder how practical it would be to drill a hole into the ground several thousand feet deep and capture the rising heat to turn a turbine and produce electricity ?

Originally Posted by Raymond42262

Getting back to volcanoes.....and geothermal.

If you dug a hole deep enough and went 1k or 2k feet below the ground the ground heats up..

I wonder how practical it would be to drill a hole into the ground several thousand feet deep and capture the rising heat to turn a turbine and produce electricity ?

It's very practical, this is the general concept of geothermal energy. Typically, those systems don't have underground reservoirs though, it's just a system of pipes that go down and back up again.

Originally Posted by Raymond42262

It might have a future for the military, long term storage food products and disaster relief but I don't see a future with it commercially.

I think the future of food sales will be fresh, natural foods grown locally, not bought when they are green, shipped 1000 miles and ripened in industrial closets.

I think he is 30 or 40 years too late.

I think packaging will just have to reflect that. I work with many interesting combinations of polymers for food packaging that are capable of locking in freshness and providing that locally grown appeal. Just a matter of time before it can be applied for a more broad application with some tweaks here and there depending on the product and the chemistry behind it.

Originally Posted by SamDoe1

It's very practical, this is the general concept of geothermal energy. Typically, those systems don't have underground reservoirs though, it's just a system of pipes that go down and back up again.

I thought that used water. I was thinking about putting a turbine at the bottom of a very deep hole and just using the heat from the Earth to turn the turbine.

Generally, when I think of geothermal I think of running pvc under the ground about 10 feet deep with water and antifreeze through it and circulating through a heat pump.

I know Iceland generates a tremendous amount of their energy with geothermal but they is obviously done on a large industrial scale.

I was thinking of something of a smaller scale for independent home use, the same way people put wind turbines and small hydro projects in their yards.

Shouldn't be long until we have robots walking around in our place. Think of outsourcing manual labor with a fleet of robots controlled by people in need of work on the other side of the world.
http://www.euronews.com/2012/11/13/a...ithout-limits/



There are 10 parts to this, each from one year of the project. I watched the first 3 last night and #3 is a good summation of the first 2 with a little extra, really interesting stuff. The group has successfully modeled part of a brain, what they call a neural column, and have actually taught "it" to control a tray with a ball on it via control of virtual muscles.

I read this on yahoo


People can process short sentences and solve equations before they're aware of the words and numbers in front of their eyes, finds new research that suggests we might not actually need full consciousness to perform rule-based tasks like reading and arithmetic.

In a series of experiments at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, more than 300 student participants were unconsciously exposed to words and equations through a research technique known as Continuous Flash Suppression (CFS). With this method, a static image appears in front of one eye while rapidly changing pictures flash in front of the other eye. The changing pictures dominate awareness at first, letting the still image register subliminally before popping into consciousness.

In the first part of the study, one eye was presented with a static phrase or sentence, which was "masked" by changing colorful shapes flashing in front of the other eye. The students were instructed to press a button as soon as they became aware of the words. It usually took about a second, but negative phrases like "human trafficking" and jarring sentences such as "I ironed the coffee" typically registered quicker than positive expressions and more coherent phrases such as "I ironed clothes," the study found.

The researchers say these results suggest that the sentences were fully read and comprehended subconsciously, and certain phrases broke out of suppression faster because they were more surprising.

In the second part of the study, the scientists examined how the unconscious brain processes math problems. Using the CFS technique again, the researchers subliminally exposed the participants to three-digit equations, such as "9 ***8722; 3 ***8722; 4," for two seconds or less. Then, the participants were shown a number (without CFS masking it) and told to say it out loud. The students were quicker to read aloud a number that was the right answer to the equation they had just subconsciously seen. For example, after being exposed to "9 ***8722; 3 ***8722; 4," they were quicker to pronounce "2" than "3." This suggests they subconsciously worked out the problem and had the answer on their lips.

Other recent studies have shown that humans might be able to unconsciously perform tasks that have typically been associated with consciousness, such as learning and forming intuitions. The new study adds complex, rule-based operations to that list.

Psychology researcher Ran Hassin, who was involved in the study, said the results suggest current theories about unconscious processes need to be revised.
"These revisions would bring us closer to solving one of the biggest scientific mysteries of the 21st century: What are the functions of human consciousness?"

The research was published this week in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
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I like this stuff. I wonder what else the mind is capable of doing that we are not aware of ?

http://news.yahoo.com/unconscious-br...143941976.html