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Old 06-02-2012, 11:22 PM   #1
NoCarrieR
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DISA valve flap is GONE

Background:
- 2003 330i ZHP Sedan - Bought the car @ 100K miles 2 years ago w/ no service records.
- Rough idle - has been occuring for over a year, but has gotten a bit worse lately.
- SES light appeared once in March on the way home from a track day, but was gone the next morning. Possibly unrelated. I never investigated it.
- SES light appeared again last week, and has stayed lit. OBD Codes P0171 & P0174 (System Too Lean, Bank A & Bank B) and P0000 (Unknown)
- I read up extensively on causes for these codes. Intended course of action was: check MAF sensor, check DISA, check everything for leaks, then start looking at fuel system.
- MAF sensor looked fine.
- Removed DISA valve to find that the flap is just missing, as well as any accompanying clips or hardware, and the gasket. No sign of flap or hardware or gasket in the intake manifold. See picture and video below of DISA valve and a video attempting to peer inside intake manifold.


So I figure there are two possibilities:

1) The flap broke off some time in the last year and it has made it's way down into the ports of the intake manifold.
2) The previous owner had a problem with the DISA and just removed the flap instead of replacing it. (I thought this was a possibility since the gasket is just missing. Doesn't seem like that could wiggle loose and end up in the manifold. I could be mistaken.)


Now the questions:

1) How far could the flap have gone? Is it possible for it to have gone down into the ports and out of sight? How plausible is situation #2 above?
2) Ultimately the lingering question is do I need to remove the intake manifold and look for the parts?
3) How difficult is that to do? I'm a novice mechanic, but I have a Bentley manual and it seems to give pretty good step-by-step directions, and I follow directions well.


Any and all advice is appreciated. You guys are awesome.




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Old 06-03-2012, 12:09 AM   #2
jfoj
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I am guessing and hoping that the previous owner remove the DISA flap and rear metal pin.

The rear metal pin is the real problem as it can get sucked into a cylinder and cause a lot of damage.

I would replace the DISA with a new one, do not even consider the DISA repair kit many reference as it does not address the vacuum actuator diaphragm or electrical solenoid.

If I can find the post where the engine ingests the DISA pin, I will post it here, you will see it is likely to cause a lot of damage.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:36 AM   #3
Stinger9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
I am guessing and hoping that the previous owner remove the DISA flap and rear metal pin.

The rear metal pin is the real problem as it can get sucked into a cylinder and cause a lot of damage.
+1 on all
you might want to stick a magnet extension down into the hole to route around a bit to see if you an get lucky by grabbing out that steel pin if it's actually in there.
I think the odds are that someone removed the guts because the part is expensive. Very attractive for a mechanic to charge for and not replace.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:09 AM   #4
NoCarrieR
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Thanks for telling me what I was hoping to hear =)

The magnet idea is great. Will definitely try fishing around just in case.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:31 AM   #5
s14realm3
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If you want to buy a new DISA upgrade/updated unt, who sells it? Thanks
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:38 AM   #6
jfoj
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Dealer only or BMW OEM online supplier.

See my favorite BMW parts supplier in my signature below, very good pricing and low cost or sometimes free shipping and quick turn around.

They have online parts catalog as well.

The part is actually called an adjuster unit in the parts diagram, engine mechanical section as I recall?

Not cheap, around $175 as I recall?

Also see the first link in my signature below for more information.
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Last edited by jfoj; 06-03-2012 at 06:39 AM.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:42 AM   #7
s14realm3
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Why won't you recommend doing the repair kit

http://germanautosolutions.com/DISA_...epair_Kit.html
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:49 AM   #8
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Suggest you read the DISA section in the first link below in my signature.

The DISA "repair" kit does not address the 2nd main failure of the DISA and is really misleading many people, even the person selling the "repair" kit is kind of fooling himself in my opinion.

The flap is only 1 problem with the DISA, the vacuum diaphragm is the main part that controls the DISA and rubber parts under the hood last at best about 8 years.

Just replace the entire DISA and you will not likely need to worry about it as long as you own the car.

TRUST ME!
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post

The DISA is actually called an adjuster unit in the parts diagram, engine mechanical section as I recall?

Not cheap, around $175 as I recall?
Agree strongly to just get a new part and be done with it.

Love to know where to get it for as cheap as $175. Nice price you've posted in post #10 jfoj !

Always test prices when searching for the best one by running the part # by the vendors listed here: www.furiousmethod.com

Last edited by Stinger9; 06-03-2012 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:18 PM   #10
jfoj
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$176.77 with free shipping!!

http://www.bmwmercedesparts.com/part...icleid=1423606
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:16 PM   #11
NoCarrieR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Thanks for the link. That is definitely the best deal out there at the moment. I grew up in Fairfax, BTW. Lovely place.

Thanks again for the help. Ordering the new valve right now and going magnet-fishing for any lingering parts, just to be safe.
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:17 PM   #12
TArse
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Woah
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:40 AM   #13
fiveightandten
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I'm afraid you're not going to get a definitive answer that will quell all concerns you have of parts being in your manifold. That being said, I don't see how the flap and pin could remain loose in there for any prolonged length of time and not get sucked into the head. There is a lot of vibration and a lot of air flow in there.

Taking off the manifold isn't easy, but it can be done in a Saturday no problem if that will help you sleep at night. Stuff like that bugs me. I'd look at the design of the manifold by looking at pictures (try eBay), to see if that would convince me that there's no room for pieces to sit dormant in there. If not, I'd probably yank the manifold just so I could sleep at night...which is likely completely unnessary.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:00 AM   #14
Stinger9
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Originally Posted by fiveightandten View Post
I'm afraid you're not going to get a definitive answer that will quell all concerns you have of parts being in your manifold. That being said, I don't see how the flap and pin could remain loose in there for any prolonged length of time and not get sucked into the head. There is a lot of vibration and a lot of air flow in there.

Taking off the manifold isn't easy, but it can be done in a Saturday no problem if that will help you sleep at night. Stuff like that bugs me. I'd look at the design of the manifold by looking at pictures (try eBay), to see if that would convince me that there's no room for pieces to sit dormant in there. If not, I'd probably yank the manifold just so I could sleep at night...which is likely completely unnessary.
If he got the steel pin out attached to a fishing magnet, that would be definitive!
And never underestimate the possibilities of mechanical things to end up in strange positions. We just don't know.

Mechanic could have pulled DISA, saw it was bad, and told owner he replaced it just until a new one could be ordered and swapped in. Owner ignored the situation knowing the car was going to be sold. It could happen.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:06 AM   #15
Hornung418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Suggest you read the DISA section in the first link below in my signature.

The DISA "repair" kit does not address the 2nd main failure of the DISA and is really misleading many people, even the person selling the "repair" kit is kind of fooling himself in my opinion.

The flap is only 1 problem with the DISA, the vacuum diaphragm is the main part that controls the DISA and rubber parts under the hood last at best about 8 years.

Just replace the entire DISA and you will not likely need to worry about it as long as you own the car.

TRUST ME!
Because I'm sure you know that before you order the repair kit, you are supposed to check for vacuum leaks. Some things just happen to be better than OEM parts. Deal with it.

The G.A.S. kit is a solid solution for people with known working DISAs but failed flaps.

OP, remove the cover on the unit and push the lever arm into the solenoid chamber. Place your thumb over the vacuum hole and release the arm. If it moves from the position you released it from, you have a vacuum leak. If not, just buy the G.A.S. kit for $75.

Best of luck.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:44 AM   #16
jfoj
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Hornung418,

Appreciate your opinion, I am fully aware of what the GAS "repair" kit is all about, however, I am not so sure everyone that is drooling over this fully understands what is not getting addresses by this "repair" kit.

The problem is this "repair" kit seems to be the end all solution in everyone's mind.

What many fail to understand is if your DISA vacuum diaphragm is not blown or leaking now, it will clearly not last another 10 years. It is very much false economy to waste your $75-$90 for only a partial solution. Additionally there is an electrical vacuum control solenoid on the DISA as well that can be a point of failure, much less of a failure point than the diaphragm, but an additional failure point as well.

Rubber and plastic parts under the hood of a car with gasoline and oil vapors really only have a useful lifespan of 8-10 years max. Any longer and we are all fooling ourselves.

My point is just step up to the plate, by a proper replacement DISA that will last you another 8-10 years and be done with it. There have been some changes in the newer DISA's, they may last a bit longer than the originals? maybe not? Time will tell.

Who can say the GAS repair kit is better than OEM, it is different and on the surface the valve portion may be better, but again, only time will tell what problems may show up with a non OEM solution.

You are dealing with a combined electrical, mechanical and vacuum operated device. It will not last forever. I am sure if you put enough money into the design and materials, you could have an items that lasts 2 times as long, but it is really worth it in the long run??
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
What many fail to understand is if your DISA vacuum diaphragm is not blown or leaking now, it will clearly not last another 10 years. It is very much false economy to waste your $75-$90 for only a partial solution.
Your sense and logic does not belong here on the interweb.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:28 PM   #18
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Jfoj's correct.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:59 AM   #19
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Cool story, bro.

Tell me that when you replace your DISA with OEM, is your 4k dip is also removed from the equation? The binding of plastic on plastic is what causes it and the new metal pieces alleviate that to a point where it is no longer present on the butt dyno.

Naysayers gonna naysay. No ****s have been given.

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Old 11-14-2012, 12:13 AM   #20
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OP I feel you pain as my flap is missing too. I was thinking previous owner may have removed it. I have had my vehicle since 2004/no notice of sound or issue with DISA until recently(other symptions/issues). Starting to wonder if it was lodged in there and now making my popping sound.

I thought of a snake camera/found a DIY for about $30.00 but I need to look into it more. (Uses 8 IR LED Universal Car Rear View Camera Night Vision Color waterproof)
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Pipe-Dra...3400%26ps%3D54

Fanatics, do you think a snake camera would be able to see down to the point where the manifold gasket is seated?
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