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Old 11-14-2012, 10:39 AM   #101
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Maybe you did. Maybe you contributed to dinosaur genome sequencing and development of a cloning process.
on a small island off the coast of mexico. I can't see any way this project could backfire leading to the gruesome deaths of me and all my colleagues.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:42 AM   #102
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What kind of car? Money for car could be greater than tuition
kids at that age would be happy with anything really. probably a used 2030 electric focus or perhaps tesla will have a lower priced practical vehicle at that point. with inflation adjustments i'd see it as a $5-10k vehicle range.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:49 AM   #103
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kids at that age would be happy with anything really. probably a used 2030 electric focus or perhaps tesla will have a lower priced practical vehicle at that point. with inflation adjustments i'd see it as a $5-10k vehicle range.
$5k car? You think the Tata Nano will be the future?
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:51 AM   #104
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A lot of you are emphasizing the importance of college as a series of classes rather than the entire experience of college. What is most important as some of you have stated, is how one chooses his course through college. Obviously, partying all day/night is one way to go, but there are certain institutions that this is more likely to happen and certain institutions that you can more easily build a highly-motivated/dedicated friend group. A difference in environments goes a long way into shaping individuals.

Secondly, I can say that I have a bunch of friends doing Harvard/Stanford/MIT/etc JD/PhD/MD, and that I'm certain it would have been harder to find friends of "this caliber" had I gone to a state school. Of course, it takes a certain type of person to appreciate this value, though this appreciation is something that can also be developed.

Lastly, a lot of stronger college friendships are made during the first few years of college when everybody is living together. I would not have my future kids go to CC and then a regular college if I am able to pay for their four years or if they can pay for the four years without incurring a significant amount of debt.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:56 AM   #105
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A lot of you are emphasizing the importance of college as a series of classes rather than the entire experience of college. What is most important as some of you have stated, is how one chooses his course through college. Obviously, partying all day/night is one way to go, but there are certain institutions that this is more likely to happen and certain institutions that you can more easily build a highly-motivated/dedicated friend group. A difference in environments goes a long way into shaping individuals.

Secondly, I can say that I have a bunch of friends doing Harvard/Stanford/MIT/etc JD/PhD/MD, and that I'm certain it would have been harder to find friends of "this caliber" had I gone to a state school. Of course, it takes a certain type of person to appreciate this value, though this appreciation is something that can also be developed.

Lastly, a lot of stronger college friendships are made during the first few years of college when everybody is living together. I would not have my future kids go to CC and then a regular college if I am able to pay for their four years or if they can pay for the four years without incurring a significant amount of debt.
+1, the question becomes whether $100k in debt is worth it to attend Cornell. $100k to attend Monmouth--probably not.

I have friends that did it, they have great jobs and think it was worth every penny.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:57 AM   #106
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Lastly, a lot of stronger college friendships are made during the first few years of college when everybody is living together. I would not have my future kids go to CC and then a regular college if I am able to pay for their four years or if they can pay for the four years without incurring a significant amount of debt.
I can sort of agree with this. The people that I still talk to from college are the people that I lived with my first year.

Actually, really the only person I talk to from college is someone that I lived with 3 out of 4 years.

My wife, on the other hand, changed schools half way through, and the friends that she had her first two years of school all turned into dbags. She's got a couple friends that are pretty close from her master's year, though.

Her brother lived at home for all but his first semester of school, and the friends that he hangs out with now are people still in the area from high school.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:57 AM   #107
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If you don't mind me asking what companies are you guys working for? (Engineers)
I started out working for Cisco, then went to a networking startup, IPO'ed. Left after it got bought by Nortel and went to a wireless startup, IPO'ed. Now working in yet another startup doing cloud storage.

I tend to flee a company once it gets above 800 ppl. Big companies are not for me.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:00 AM   #108
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A lot of you are emphasizing the importance of college as a series of classes rather than the entire experience of college. What is most important as some of you have stated, is how one chooses his course through college. Obviously, partying all day/night is one way to go, but there are certain institutions that this is more likely to happen and certain institutions that you can more easily build a highly-motivated/dedicated friend group. A difference in environments goes a long way into shaping individuals.

Secondly, I can say that I have a bunch of friends doing Harvard/Stanford/MIT/etc JD/PhD/MD, and that I'm certain it would have been harder to find friends of "this caliber" had I gone to a state school. Of course, it takes a certain type of person to appreciate this value, though this appreciation is something that can also be developed.

Lastly, a lot of stronger college friendships are made during the first few years of college when everybody is living together. I would not have my future kids go to CC and then a regular college if I am able to pay for their four years or if they can pay for the four years without incurring a significant amount of debt.
Agreed. My best friendships are that of my college buddies. We stuck it out 4 years together day and night through grueling and intensive study while having some of the best experiences and learning lessons of our lives. It will be rewarding to watch all of us climb the ladder of life and prosper.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:04 AM   #109
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$5k car? You think the Tata Nano will be the future?
no, have you heard of buying used cars? you can get very decent ones in that price range.

i bought my 2001 300i with 100k in 2007 for $13k. now, i wouldn't get such a high mileage or expensive car most likely for them, although they perhaps would have additional money from working that could be used.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:05 AM   #110
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no, have you heard of buying used cars? you can get very decent ones in that price range.

i bought my 2001 300i with 100k in 2007 for $13k. now, i wouldn't get such a high mileage or expensive car most likely for them, although they perhaps would have additional money from working that could be used.
Ah, I would think that in 2030 a $5k car is quite crappy. probably similar to a $2k car now...
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:07 AM   #111
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I started out working for Cisco, then went to a networking startup, IPO'ed. Left after it got bought by Nortel and went to a wireless startup, IPO'ed. Now working in yet another startup doing cloud storage.

I tend to flee a company once it gets above 800 ppl. Big companies are not for me.
Do you have a reason for it or just personal preference?
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:17 AM   #112
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+1, the question becomes whether $100k in debt is worth it to attend Cornell. $100k to attend Monmouth--probably not.

I have friends that did it, they have great jobs and think it was worth every penny.
Yep.

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Agreed. My best friendships are that of my college buddies. We stuck it out 4 years together day and night through grueling and intensive study while having some of the best experiences and learning lessons of our lives. It will be rewarding to watch all of us climb the ladder of life and prosper.
I had a similar experience and can't wait to see where all of us go.

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Do you have a reason for it or just personal preference?
you get to do cooler stuff
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:36 AM   #113
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What amazes me is what shell out their money (or parents' money) to learn.

NYU students paying 60k a year for a degree in Spanish or English or History or _________. If you're not going to school for an ROI, perhaps it's best to take a few years off, enter the working world via an entry level job, and piece together what you want to do... THEN go back to school with motivation, intent, and a bigger picture.

High schoolers today look at college as a time to move out from their parents, live on their own (which basically translates to live irresponsibly), and lose their virginity (if it's still there). That's NOT a valid reason to send the nation into record levels of debt.

As for "the value of a school", it's in the classmates not the text books. If you're surrounded by top tier piers (say Yale or Harvard), you're likely going to be exposed (both in the classroom and in your dormroom) to very high level thought processes, conversations, social networks, etc.. THAT is worth the money (and is why people go back for MBAs). To risk sounding snoody, the odds that you receive that at a run-of-the-mill private college are lower... If you're school isn't listed in the Forbes, USA Today, or other outlets "top 200 schools" you're wasting your money if you're not attending a very skill-specific university/college or a state school. Why would anyone in Maryland attend a rando private university when the University of Maryland has top rated business schools and other programs? That's just dumb (and yet, THOUSANDS do it every year)
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:44 AM   #114
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What amazes me is what shell out their money (or parents' money) to learn.

NYU students paying 60k a year for a degree in Spanish or English or History or _________. If you're not going to school for an ROI, perhaps it's best to take a few years off, enter the working world via an entry level job, and piece together what you want to do... THEN go back to school with motivation, intent, and a bigger picture.

High schoolers today look at college as a time to move out from their parents, live on their own (which basically translates to live irresponsibly), and lose their virginity (if it's still there). That's NOT a valid reason to send the nation into record levels of debt.

As for "the value of a school", it's in the classmates not the text books. If you're surrounded by top tier piers (say Yale or Harvard), you're likely going to be exposed (both in the classroom and in your dormroom) to very high level thought processes, conversations, social networks, etc.. THAT is worth the money (and is why people go back for MBAs). To risk sounding snoody, the odds that you receive that at a run-of-the-mill private college are lower... If you're school isn't listed in the Forbes, USA Today, or other outlets "top 200 schools" you're wasting your money if you're not attending a very skill-specific university/college or a state school. Why would anyone in Maryland attend a rando private university when the University of Maryland has top rated business schools and other programs? That's just dumb (and yet, THOUSANDS do it every year)
Do you mean snooty?

How does spending parent's money send the nation into debt?
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:53 AM   #115
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Do you mean snooty?

How does spending parent's money send the nation into debt?
Yes, I meant snooty. My bad.

Are you under the impression that parent's money is infinite? Perhaps they don't have any costs of their own after their chidlren go off to school?

Let's put this simply : Jenny's parents have 100,000 in the bank. They spend 50k a year sending Jenny to school. After year two, they take out private loans to pay Jenny's junior and senior tuition costs. Jenny graduates and her parents take her to a steak dinner which they put on their amex card. They now have 100,400 (after all, they wanted that 120 dollar bottle of Cakebread) in debt and an income path that likely will decrease in the years ahead. They also have to cover their costs once they're of age where they can no longer work. Add in their healthcare costs and you've got a serious problem. I suppose you can claim that they will just take that debt to the grave, but that's not reallllly how this works.

So let me ask you... how does ANYONE spending more than they can afford on education NOT send the nation into debt?

I guess you could also claim "debt forgiveness programs" like that proposed by the Obama administration (where if you can't afford the loans you signed on for, we'll forgive them and you're good to go) is the solution. But we also know that is just ridiculous as it adds to our nation's deficit (thus devaluing our currency) and will not solve the real issue (which is supply/demand 101).

The simple truth is that MOST don't need to go to college. Unless you're working in some capacity in the professional world, go to trade school (look at the success of the European education model.. in particular, Germany).
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:56 AM   #116
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A lot of you are emphasizing the importance of college as a series of classes rather than the entire experience of college. What is most important as some of you have stated, is how one chooses his course through college. Obviously, partying all day/night is one way to go, but there are certain institutions that this is more likely to happen and certain institutions that you can more easily build a highly-motivated/dedicated friend group. A difference in environments goes a long way into shaping individuals.

Secondly, I can say that I have a bunch of friends doing Harvard/Stanford/MIT/etc JD/PhD/MD, and that I'm certain it would have been harder to find friends of "this caliber" had I gone to a state school. Of course, it takes a certain type of person to appreciate this value, though this appreciation is something that can also be developed.

Lastly, a lot of stronger college friendships are made during the first few years of college when everybody is living together. I would not have my future kids go to CC and then a regular college if I am able to pay for their four years or if they can pay for the four years without incurring a significant amount of debt.

I guess I take issue with your assumptions

(1) I have a friend circle of PhD/MD's/JD/Engineers. None went to a private college.
(2) I'm still in my undergrad, through a mix/match of public uni and community college (cheaper to take classes there and transfer in)
(3) I demand my kids go to CC , THEN to Uni...there's no point in paying all that money for a class you can take for 1/4th the cost. GF went on an athletic scholarship so she doesn't care, my company is paying for it and I still go the cheap route - but If I am paying for it - they will do it the cheap route, go to school, and work. I'm not paying all that money for room/board/tuition/beer when they could of gone down the street for the exact same credit.


What's funny is a lot of these guys are MBA's, they are the top few percent of Atlanta. Hanging around rich kids doesn't expose you to a "higher level through process" - it exposes you to a more sheltered one.

I am of the opinion that you should ride public transit, expose yourself to AS MUCH of our culture as you can to better round your opinions...this idea that Yale = they have better arguments I find retarded - they are mostly cut from the same cloth.

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Old 11-14-2012, 11:56 AM   #117
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Yes, I meant snooty. My bad.

Are you under the impression that parent's money is infinite? Perhaps they don't have any costs of their own after their chidlren go off to school?

Let's put this simply : Jenny's parents have 100,000 in the bank. They spend 50k a year sending Jenny to school. After year two, they take out private loans to pay Jenny's junior and senior tuition costs. Jenny graduates and her parents take her to a steak dinner which they put on their amex card. They now have 100,400 (after all, they wanted that 120 dollar bottle of Cakebread) in debt and an income path that likely will decrease in the years ahead. They also have to cover their costs once they're of age where they can no longer work. Add in their healthcare costs and you've got a serious problem. I suppose you can claim that they will just take that debt to the grave, but that's not reallllly how this works.

So let me ask you... how does ANYONE spending more than they can afford on education NOT send the nation into debt?
Oh, by "nation" you mean private individuals, not the federal government.

You're kind of extrapolating a small segment of the population as representative of the entire "nation."
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:00 PM   #118
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Oh, by "nation" you mean private individuals, not the federal government.

You're kind of extrapolating a small segment of the population as representative of the entire "nation."
Gotcha. We're all good

And you're right that this particular story (the original article) isn't a HUGE sector of the population. BUT, the general public faces this issue in larggeee numbers (hence the Obama student forgiveness talk). College is just too damn expensive these days and the ROI simply isn't there unless you're getting a very specific skill set or going to a very high-caliber school where you'll make contacts that will serve you well int he professional world.

There are countless studies which examine the ROI of going straight from high school into the working world and the additional income seen through the "investment" of four years in college.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:02 PM   #119
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Gotcha. We're all good

And you're right that this particular story (the original article) isn't a HUGE sector of the population. BUT, the general public faces this issue in larggeee numbers (hence the Obama student forgiveness talk). College is just too damn expensive these days and the ROI simply isn't there unless you're getting a very specific skill set or going to a very high-caliber school where you'll make contacts that will serve you well int he professional world.

There are countless studies which examine the ROI of going straight from high school into the working world and the additional income seen through the "investment" of four years in college.
Leaders love to tout that a college graduate earns a million more than a HS graduate. Wasn't this the ROI analysis students were to rely on?
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:02 PM   #120
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