E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-18-2012, 02:07 AM   #21
MJLavelle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 2,753
My Ride: 2001 BMW 330ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewdown View Post
here's a great thread with a lot of info: *http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=864113

good luck
You really need to read this thread that Drewdown posted a link to. You're best bet is going to be to use a screw extractor/easy out/whatever local term you use. I posted a fairly long comment in that thread as well, and you may want to read it. If you finally decide to use an easy out, make sure you use the correct size. Most people tend to use one that is too large. There is usually a guide that is printed on the package, or a booklet inside that describes what size drill and extractor size to use acording to the size of bolt you are trying to remove. Follow that guide. I have seen way too many people try to use an extractor that is almost the same size as the bolt. That will not work. The extractor is tapered. If you drill a large hole, and screw a large extractor in there, it is going to make the broken off bolt expand, and just hold on tighter. So, use the recommended size, and it will come out.*
Make sure you use a T handle Tap holder, to drive the extractor in. If you don't have one, buy one. Don't try to use vice grips or pliers to drive in the extractor. They are made out of a very hard metal, so they are very brittle as well. Any axial pressure on the extractor could break it. A T handle tap holder will allow you to drive it in straight, and reduces the risk of breakage.*
If the head is still on there, but is just buggered up, you may be able to drive a larger extractor in to it, and it may get enough bite to turn the screw, so try that first. Buy a set of extractors, and see if one of the larger ones will dig in and turn the screw. It is worth trying before drilling and going in with a smaller easy out. But the T handle holder is a necessity. It is the best way to drive the extractor in there. Also, if you have not already done so, soak that bolt with PB Blaster or some other lubricant/solvent. PB Blaster is the best, but there are plenty of others that will work. Here is a link to a T handle tap holder, in case you are not clear about what I was talking about***********:
http://www.amazon.com/Westward-2CYR9...052815&sr=8-13
Here is a link to a screw extractor/easy out set. These have the drill bit size stamped on them. There are also sets that have the proper size drill bit in the set with the extractors.*
http://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Tools-53...2053055&sr=1-8
Don't buy the double ended ones with the drill on one end, and the extractor on the other end. These are meant to be used in a drill, and don't work well on engine parts. They are better for wood screws. You probably don't have room to get a drill in there any way.*
Sorry for the long post. It is hard to describe how to do these things in writing. You need to realize that you are rapidly reaching a point of this being a real mess. I have removed hundreds of buggered up or broken bolts, screws, and set screws during my time as a manufacturing engineer. The one thing I tried to teach the assembly techs was to stop trying, as soon as there is a problem. Then, you need to get the proper tools, and make sure that you use every trick in the book on your first attempt to remove the fastener, because every time you fail, you only make things worse. It is a hard lesson to learn. I hope this helps.
MJLavelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 02:31 AM   #22
MJLavelle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 2,753
My Ride: 2001 BMW 330ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJLavelle View Post
I remember that thread. I added a post to it as well, with some additional advice. One other member, qslim, mentioned the product below:
http://www.ezgrip.net/
I got some, and I have to say, I use it all the time now. It works best for Torx and Phillips head screws. I just use it on every fastener now, and it makes a huge difference! It won't help you with a stripped screw, but there is plenty of info in that thread that will help. Order the ezgrip for future jobs.
Another thing that will help in the future, is to buy a quality set of bits, like Wera. They are a little pricey, but if you just buy the tips and use your own driver, then you can get a decent set for $20. They are great bits, and damn near impossible to strip.
The problem with the majority of bits sold for Torx or Hex type fasteners is that they are cheap Chinese crap being dumped on the market. It is the same problem we are facing with auto parts, bearings, etc. But if a Torx bit is even just a little smaller dimension, then they will bugger up the head of the screw. You can find Wera bits on Amazon.

I am going to comment on my own post here, just to make the point that it is very important to invest in high quality, German made Torx and Hex bits, if you are going to work on these cars. I know that the Harbor Freight and other stores that sell the cheap sets are tempting. But most of these are Chinese made, and they have very poor control over the dimensions of these bits. This will lead to major problems like the OP is having. And it will happen on the screw that is in the worst position at the worst possible time. Look at the mess the OP has with such a simple job.
Also, that product I pasted a link to - EZ Grip, is really good stuff, and worth every penny. One $15 bottle will probably last you a few years. I use it on every single screw, Torx, and hex bolt that I need to remove. Forum user qslim recommended it, because he uses it when he works on Air Force Jets. He claims that they use it all the time, to reduce the number of stripped fasteners. You can't get a better recommendation than that.
MJLavelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 03:23 AM   #23
trj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,923
My Ride: 325Ci
Yah I did read the thread posted in detail and thought that the best available tool I had in hand was a dremel.
I am moving in a couple of days, so ordering anything online would be a hassle, hence no EZ grip till I move.
I didn't want to use any other power tool like drill or the EZ out because of the awkward position of the bolt, I do not have a drill in possession. Also I do not want to damage the DISA or any tubes or wires there. I took the DISA out a couple of weeks ago and tested out perfectly fine. I torqued it more I guess and I was being an idiot to use the T30 instead of T40 which led to this stripped bolt.
Once I move to a new place I will order the EZ grip, looks like it would be the best to use since I can easily replace the T40 bit even if it gets gunked when using with the EZ grip paste.

Well, Can I use EZ grip with the rotor retaining bolt? I am pretty sure I can, but just confirming.
__________________
trj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 03:45 AM   #24
Kirk330i
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: San Jose
Posts: 64
My Ride: '01 330i
I know it doesn't help get your screw out, but do yourself a favor and put M6x20 hex head screws and a flat washer in as a replacement. So many of the other screws use a 10mm socket, it will be like the rest. Just don't over torque them! I had the same problem with a stripped DISA screw, what a PITA (ended up drilling the head off, then it unscrewed by hand!)! No more issues.
__________________
-Kirk330i
Love my 330, until it breaks!
Kirk330i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 03:51 AM   #25
trj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,923
My Ride: 325Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk330i View Post
I know it doesn't help get your screw out, but do yourself a favor and put M6x20 hex head screws and a flat washer in as a replacement. So many of the other screws use a 10mm socket, it will be like the rest. Just don't over torque them! I had the same problem with a stripped DISA screw, what a PITA (ended up drilling the head off, then it unscrewed by hand!)! No more issues.
I was thinking to replace it with something like that, but I already bought the DISA bolt. Well, first I have to get that one out and then think about getting the new one in.

Thanks for the advice on bolt size.
__________________
trj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 01:34 PM   #26
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 8,545
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
If you can reach it, maybe a center punch and small hammer to try an tap the bolt loose??
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 02:30 PM   #27
MJLavelle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 2,753
My Ride: 2001 BMW 330ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by trj View Post
Yah I did read the thread posted in detail and thought that the best available tool I had in hand was a dremel.
I am moving in a couple of days, so ordering anything online would be a hassle, hence no EZ grip till I move.
I didn't want to use any other power tool like drill or the EZ out because of the awkward position of the bolt, I do not have a drill in possession. Also I do not want to damage the DISA or any tubes or wires there. I took the DISA out a couple of weeks ago and tested out perfectly fine. I torqued it more I guess and I was being an idiot to use the T30 instead of T40 which led to this stripped bolt.
Once I move to a new place I will order the EZ grip, looks like it would be the best to use since I can easily replace the T40 bit even if it gets gunked when using with the EZ grip paste.

Well, Can I use EZ grip with the rotor retaining bolt? I am pretty sure I can, but just confirming.
You can try it, but it does not work miracles. It will keep you from stripping a torx bolt if you are using the correct size bit, and the bit is a little undersized. I am not sure it will fix everything once the head has already been buggered up. I mainly suggested it as something to use to make sure this never happens again. At this point, it is worth a try. You are in a messed up position, but it sounds like you can still leave it on the car, and drive it. If that is the case, then you have time to get the right tools together, and tackle it.
MJLavelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 08:27 AM   #28
trj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,923
My Ride: 325Ci
Alright guys, its been a long time since I even tried to remove that DISA bolt.
Now, I have to do the CCV and OFHG, I can't really NOT remove that bolt.

Tried the dremel yesterday to use the flat head. Even using the largest of the flat heads, it kept on slipping. I made the slit a bit too wide I guess.

Now my options are:
1) to dremel the bolt head off and use vice grips or something like that to remove the bolt after the DISA comes out. (Is this even possible to dremel the bolt head flat given its position?)

2) Drill a hole and use screw extractor of some kind. I saw some in harbor freight, but scare to drill there because of the confined space.

To OP: How/what kind of drill and procedure did you use to use to be able to get the screw extractor there?
__________________
trj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 08:58 AM   #29
Cobra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York\City
Posts: 3,159
My Ride: '00 328i & '06 R6S
subscribed, very informative thread.

one time i stripped a torx bolt located on the vanos head. ended up extracting it out with an extractor kit and drill. scariest moment of my life.
__________________
Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 05:36 PM   #30
trj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,923
My Ride: 325Ci
Bumping the thread again.

Couldn't get the screw out yet.
The screw head is almost done for.

Tried to use a screw extractor on a cordless drill. But there is no way I can get the drill to go in straight. Even after removing the plastic partition between the engine and the brake booster, angle is still less than optimum to get any kind of pressure.


Is my option limited to removing the intake manifold itself and somehow try to remove that screw?
__________________
trj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 05:49 PM   #31
klax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 575
My Ride: '04 325i
Is the other torx bolt out? If so, grind off the remaining head of the bad bolt and the DISA should come off. Then you can grab onto the shank of the bolt that's left.
klax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 11:45 PM   #32
trj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,923
My Ride: 325Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by klax View Post
Is the other torx bolt out? If so, grind off the remaining head of the bad bolt and the DISA should come off. Then you can grab onto the shank of the bolt that's left.
Yah, I will try that before I decide to take the manifold out.

The other bolt is still there, but its not stripped so I can take it out.
I have been driving with the stripped bolt for almost 6 months now lol.
Finally time has come to go under there, so it has to come out.

What do you recommend to use to grind off that bolt? A dremel tool with what(a small grinding) attachment?
__________________
trj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 09:03 AM   #33
Wolrab
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Houston
Posts: 485
My Ride: 330Ci MT, 545i SMG
Send a message via Skype™ to Wolrab
Is it the original DISA? How much $$$ in remaining DISA life are you saving, going to all this trouble not to destroy it? Maybe not much.

I don't think I'd pull the intake manifold to avoid hacksawing through an 11 year old DISA.
__________________
Engineers do it with a torque wrench

Last edited by Wolrab; 11-14-2012 at 09:17 AM.
Wolrab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 09:11 AM   #34
klax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 575
My Ride: '04 325i
trj,

Yeah, a small grinding attachment on your Dremmel.
klax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 11:20 AM   #35
trj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,923
My Ride: 325Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Is it the original DISA? How much $$$ in remaining DISA life are you saving, going to all this trouble not to destroy it? Maybe not much.

I don't think I'd pull the intake manifold to avoid hacksawing through an 11 year old DISA.
Its not about the cost, its about the time Worlab. I checked the DISA about 6 months ago and thats when I stripped the screw. The valve was just as tight it should be.
If it was money then, taking the intake manifold out would be cheaper because the gasket is around $70 vs new DISA for $200. And I dont have any leaks in the intake manifold. I'd like not to disturb the manifold as it is perfectly fine.
If the DISA comes out looking bad, I'd certainly change it.

All I want to know is the best way to get that stripped screw out. There is still the same amount of work needed to remove the screw even if I hacksaw the DISA out as the screw will still be sitting in the same hard to reach location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klax View Post
trj,

Yeah, a small grinding attachment on your Dremmel.
Thanks, I will try that. I need to take care of the OFHG and CCV before it gets too cold to work on the car.
__________________
trj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 12:50 PM   #36
RayPooley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,381
My Ride: 320i SE Coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanBMW View Post
I stripped the T40 bolt pretty bad in the cold. I was rushing and It just made matters worse. How the hell do I get it out?
What do you mean by stripped? You stripped the torx head or you stripped the screw's threads?
RayPooley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 02:00 PM   #37
trj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,923
My Ride: 325Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayPooley View Post
What do you mean by stripped? You stripped the torx head or you stripped the screw's threads?
torx head.
Because I used T30 instead of T40.
I have tried hacksaw, dremel and what not to get some grip with flat head, phillips or any tool. During the process of hacksaw-ing and dremel-ing, the head of the screw doesnt look like a head anymore. It looks like a mangled piece of metal now. I will post a picture when I get a chance just for laughs.
__________________
trj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 02:18 PM   #38
RayPooley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,381
My Ride: 320i SE Coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by trj View Post
torx head.
Because I used T30 instead of T40.
I have tried hacksaw, dremel and what not to get some grip with flat head, phillips or any tool. During the process of hacksaw-ing and dremel-ing, the head of the screw doesnt look like a head anymore. It looks like a mangled piece of metal now. I will post a picture when I get a chance just for laughs.
Ok. First of all stop what you are doing and leave it until you have a plan. The DISA is plastic and if you slip and cut a hole in it you may be knackered.
What do we know?

This screw is an 18 mm long screw with a knackered head. Now I don't know who last put it back in place but, being a screw, I would imagine not a lot of torque was used in putting it back. Not a lot is required. So what we are talking about is getting some kind of purchase on what's left of the head (maybe you should talk to a dentist. They are good at this sort of thing. ) Joke. I'll be back in a minute or two.
RayPooley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 02:28 PM   #39
trj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,923
My Ride: 325Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayPooley View Post
Ok. First of all stop what you are doing and leave it until you have a plan. The DISA is plastic and if you slip and cut a hole in it you may be knackered.
What do we know?

This screw is an 18 mm long screw with a knackered head. Now I don't know who last put it back in place but, being a screw, I would imagine not a lot of torque was used in putting it back. Not a lot is required. So what we are talking about is getting some kind of purchase on what's left of the head (maybe you should talk to a dentist. They are good at this sort of thing. ) Joke. I'll be back in a minute or two.
I was the one who put the screw there last time. And I am the one who stripped it with T30 when I tried to remove it to change the lower intake boot.

I have been visiting that bolt every time I open the bonnet and thinking what should I try next.
The only options now is to shave the bolt head off and remove the DISA, then remove the screw with a set of pliers or break the DISA with hacksaw and continue the same with pliers or remove the intake manifold to gain more access to the screw to use the extractor.

Will have to stop by the hardware store to get the small grinding bits to shave the head off that stupid screw.
__________________
trj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 02:41 PM   #40
RayPooley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,381
My Ride: 320i SE Coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayPooley View Post
Ok. First of all stop what you are doing and leave it until you have a plan. The DISA is plastic and if you slip and cut a hole in it you may be knackered.
What do we know?

This screw is an 18 mm long screw with a knackered head. Now I don't know who last put it back in place but, being a screw, I would imagine not a lot of torque was used in putting it back. Not a lot is required. So what we are talking about is getting some kind of purchase on what's left of the head (maybe you should talk to a dentist. They are good at this sort of thing. ) Joke. I'll be back in a minute or two.
Ok. I'm back.

What you need is a center punch (on the left) and a 3mm screw extractor, in the middle. That's its family on the right. You also need a 2mm metal drill ie: for drilling metal not wood. I haven't got one but you know what it looks like.

Here's what you do. You take the punch, which is hardened steel, and place the pointy end in the MIDDLE of the head. You then tap the punch firmly a few times with a hammer until it has left a significant dent in the head of the screw. About 2mm diameter. This dent is going to stop the 2mm drill from skidding when you first start to drill a hole in the screw. Ok? Its like a pilot dent. This is the important bit. Ideally you want to drill down teh center of the screw. That's the objective. You don't want to knacker the threads/hole in the manifold. So be ultra careful.

Once you have a satisfactory pilot dent, put your drill into your dremel, position the tip of the drill in the pilot hole and start drilling. MAKE SURE YOU KEEP THE DRILL IN LINE WITH THE AXIS OF THE SCREW. Be patient. Baby steps. Take your time. Drill about 5mm in, withdraw the drill until it is almost out (to remove swarf from teh flutes) and go back in again. Do this until you have drilled to a depth of about 10mm.

This is where the screw extractor comes into play. The screw extractor is a case hardened tool. The tapered bit on the end has a LEFT HANDED cutting thread. You insert this into your screw and start to screw it into the drilled hole as you would a left handed screw. ie: applying pressure and turning COUNTER CLOCKWISE. As the extractor penetrates the screw it will eventually get tighter and tighter until, instead of the extractor getting any tighter, the knackered screw will start to unscrew. Get it? Job done. But DO be patient. And put something in the engine bay so as to catch anything that you might drop. Always a good idea. Oh yeah. Get yourself a T40 torx bit.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMAG0179.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	62.5 KB
ID:	478178  

Last edited by RayPooley; 11-14-2012 at 02:50 PM.
RayPooley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use