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Old 11-14-2012, 04:42 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild_Bill View Post
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/24...-break-in-and/


This kind of thing is common now. When obtaining my concealed weapon license the instructor warned us never shoot to stop, always shoot to kill. Because of cases like the one above. Google it if you don't believe it. There is even a case where a burglar shot a 90 year old man 3 times, tried to execute him and after all that the burglar sued the old guy for negligently shooting him.
Your instructor opened himself up to lawsuits

Not too bright
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:00 PM   #82
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There are plenty.

That being said.... "Winning" a lawsuit defense against a criminal you shot is always going to be a "Loss", unless you live in a state like PA which its castle doctrine not only protect us in criminal defense but CIVIL as well.

You can win a lawsuit but what you will lose in time, stress, money, reputation, safety and emotion will be just as bad as losing

If you live in a state where you can still be held civilly liable even when proven self defense justified... I suggest you move immediately
Yeah, I just don't like the advice leading to not shooting to protect yourself, or even giving someone a reason to pause, that is put in that situation.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:11 PM   #83
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Sounds like you hardly even lift then.
I DON'T LIFT. Unless you want to consider once a effing week lifting. barely do like 60 on each end.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:13 PM   #84
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For someone like me reading it, it's good advice cause I understand your point.

Someone green would read it as.... Make sure they are dead before cops show up.

Shoot until the threat is negated. Sometimes that results in death, which is an unpredictable side effect I have no control over.
After a recent conversation with a prosecuting attorney, I would also advise that in your 911 conversation to get police involved that you also request an ambulance for the intruder if you've already engaged with a firearm and stopped the threat. If replayed in a courtroom it shows that you do not intend for death to occur and have some degree of compassion.

I wouldn't ask for an ambulance if you haven't opened fire though, as it would lead a jury to believe your intent is for them to need significant medical attention before police are on the scene. That might be how it plays out, but you don't need to get a jury thinking you're out for blood.

Take it for what its worth and of course, I'm willing to hear feedback to the contrary
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:27 PM   #85
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Good advice. I would severely limit what you said.

Hello 911, there was a shooting, one person is down and needs medical attention. Situation is secure. Address is xxxxxx. Hang up

When police arrive tell them you were attacked, feared for you life and are 100% willing to cooperated once your lawyer is present. Until then you will be 100% silent on the matter. 100% silent.

That is if you even call 911 or decide to hang around. There are many situations that hanging around or calling 911 would not be a good idea even in a good shoot
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 11-14-2012, 05:37 PM   #86
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Agreed. I'd probably only call in a crowded public situation (mall perhaps) where I could easily be identified by others and incriminated simply by a bonehead relaying the story incorrectly. If a guy broke into my house and I had to use force, I'd have to call bc I'm sure as heck not taking care of him as he bleeds out on my floor.

Other than that, I'd not likely call.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:44 PM   #87
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I DON'T LIFT. Unless you want to consider once a effing week lifting. barely do like 60 on each end.
You missed the joke.

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Old 11-14-2012, 07:08 PM   #88
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JJ, what do you think about calling 911 if you hear an intruder and leaving the phone on so that the action and situation are recorded?
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:22 PM   #89
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I have a Pitbull. It's a wee wittle puppy at the moment though.
Yea it will get bigger, mine is 75 lbs and is being trained in personal protection right now. He's getting a lot stronger and he just broke his spring pole I just built... But even if the dog is a big baby if he looks vicious people won't go near it.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:52 PM   #90
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JJ, what do you think about calling 911 if you hear an intruder and leaving the phone on so that the action and situation are recorded?
I think anything you do or say, can AND WILL be used against you in a court of law.

Juror: he had time to call 911... He had time to retreat
Lawyer: there is no duty to retreat
Juror: guns are evil! He should've used a pillow. GUILTY!

Court is used to prove you guilty not innocent. The less evidence (good or bad) <--- often very subjective not objectively viewed by jurors.... The better

I do not want to enter the judicial system at all.
If I have to put someone down... They are going to have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt my guilt. I know what I did was lawful
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 11-14-2012, 08:24 PM   #91
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You missed the joke.

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what joke?
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:29 PM   #92
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I think anything you do or say, can AND WILL be used against you in a court of law.

Juror: he had time to call 911... He had time to retreat
Lawyer: there is no duty to retreat
Juror: guns are evil! He should've used a pillow. GUILTY!

Court is used to prove you guilty not innocent. The less evidence (good or bad) <--- often very subjective not objectively viewed by jurors.... The better

I do not want to enter the judicial system at all.
If I have to put someone down... They are going to have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt my guilt. I know what I did was lawful
So here is the scenario....you and your wife are sleeping. You hear a window break downstairs. You arm up and go tactical...do you tell your wife to hide in the closet and call 911, or just hide in the closet and only call 911 after? Seems like your stance is 911 after the events unfold...whatever those events may be.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:36 PM   #93
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We have thought about multiple scenarios and planned for them.
I'd be a fool to post them on a public forum.

911 is not a priority, securing family and house is.
Once and only once that is done will I call 911.

My wife and I have many things to do, making a phone call delays the success of our actions.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:53 PM   #94
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I woke up when they were fleeing. Had I shot them it would've been in the back, which I'm pretty sure is not legal. afaik they have to be threatening bodily harm, which they weren't.

Also robbers are usually there to take things, such as property, hence the term "robber".

It's interesting that you are all so devoid of empathy and yet I'm the one who's been in the situation, while the majority of you just made up some story to tell the forum about "a guy you know who blew dudes brains out"

I'm pretty sure most robbers don't return, I dunno where you guys got that shiiit.

I'm not against being armed, and sure I would shoot if my family was threatened. Teenage robbers running in the other direction isn't a threat on anyones life though. Period.
Yes, because Robbers don't kill, carry guns or knifes at all...

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/loc...me-at-the-time

http://www.14news.com/story/15205048...eaves-one-dead

Oh yea, and you remember about that story I told you about the robber returning

http://fox8.com/2012/10/19/homeowner...kills-burglar/

You are so narrow minded it's sad. I pray for your family.

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After a recent conversation with a prosecuting attorney, I would also advise that in your 911 conversation to get police involved that you also request an ambulance for the intruder if you've already engaged with a firearm and stopped the threat.
I was told the same thing. He told us to call and basically say:

911: What is your emergency?
X: I live at XXXX, someone just broke into my house and I shot him. Please send an ambulance as soon as you can.

Done.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:52 PM   #95
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Yes, because Robbers don't kill, carry guns or knifes at all...

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/loc...me-at-the-time

http://www.14news.com/story/15205048...eaves-one-dead

Oh yea, and you remember about that story I told you about the robber returning

http://fox8.com/2012/10/19/homeowner...kills-burglar/

You are so narrow minded it's sad. I pray for your family.



I was told the same thing. He told us to call and basically say:

911: What is your emergency?
X: I live at XXXX, someone just broke into my house and I shot him. Please send an ambulance as soon as you can.

Done.
Of course it happens. That doesn't make it the norm. Pull your head out of your ass. Damn.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:16 AM   #96
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Of course it happens. That doesn't make it the norm. Pull your head out of your ass. Damn.
All of those stories are from Cleveland, OH.

Couple of them every month. I can post more if you so desire.

You are so clueless.

Here is one from Monday:

http://www.19actionnews.com/story/20...erain-township

Eh, another one from the beginning of the month.

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/loc...n-2-in-custody

It'll never happen to you, right?

Pretty funny....another break-in where the robber came back for more. This time a success story

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8235

Quote:
The 11 p.m. break-in was the second one of the day, he said. That morning someone had broken into the upstairs apartment "and the carpet had been cut out."
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:26 AM   #97
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All of those stories are from Cleveland, OH.

Couple of them every month. I can post more if you so desire.

You are so clueless.

Here is one from Monday:

http://www.19actionnews.com/story/20...erain-township

Eh, another one from the beginning of the month.

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/loc...n-2-in-custody

It'll never happen to you, right?
Yeah, all from premium neighborhoods I bet. Yes, it can happen anywhere but the moon, however the risk probability is FAR different depending on the location.

This thread is a bunch of people justifying living in high crime areas based on the fact that no place is completely crime free.

There is a difference. I've lived in places where burglary happens every few days, where anything not locked down will disappear in under a week, where someone gets shot within 15 blocks several times a year. Living there is a choice, and there are plenty of places where people don't live like that.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:29 AM   #98
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Yeah, all from premium neighborhoods I bet. Yes, it can happen anywhere but the moon, however the risk probability is FAR different depending on the location.

This thread is a bunch of people justifying living in high crime areas based on the fact that no place is completely crime free.

There is a difference. I've lived in places where burglary happens every few days, where anything not locked down will disappear in under a week, where someone gets shot within 15 blocks several times a year. Living there is a choice, and there are plenty of places where people don't live like that.
Nah, wow, you just don't get it.

You're a noob unless you sleep with an AR-15 under your pillow.

Two if you're really safe.

And you better have a slew of IEDs planted in your yard.

Never know.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:40 AM   #99
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Nah, wow, you just don't get it.

You're a noob unless you sleep with an AR-15 under your pillow.

Two if you're really safe.

And you better have a slew of IEDs planted in your yard.

Never know.
You are right. How can I not see what a nice neighborhood this is?

http://www.city-data.com/zips/44310.html

Only 25% of people living below the poverty level, it's practically the Palos Verdes of Ohio.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:03 AM   #100
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You are right. How can I not see what a nice neighborhood this is?

http://www.city-data.com/zips/44310.html

Only 25% of people living below the poverty level, it's practically the Palos Verdes of Ohio.
Akron is a huge city, so you really nailed that one on the head.

Congrats on your detective work

You obviously don't know Ohio. Youngstown, Toledo, Dayton are all well below Akron
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