BMW won't recall defective water pumps (but Toyota will...)

Electric water pump is likely a DC brush motor.

Will end up being like the fuel pumps, likely working one minute, then the next moment, will not work??

If BMW designed their supervisor circuity correctly, then they should be able to monitor the water pump current draw and trigger a CEL, which is not the correct thing for a non working water pump, or pop some sort of coolant indicator light.

Then the question is can they actually shut the engine down somewhere before it melts down or can they do something like the Cadillac NorthStar system t where they shut fuel delivery down on every other stroke to keep the combustion/engine temps down?? As I recall you could drive a NorthStar motor 50 miles in overheat limp mode??

Originally Posted by SteadyMobbin

Hmmm, try telling that to a master tech...
Your logic is flawed. You should thoroughly inspect these items, and if they show any signs of wear and tear, or if your wp is making some noises then yeah go ahead and replace. But if your replacing parts that are working perfectly fine then your just throwing money away...

From what Ive read, he enjoys doing that ... and I can see how and why; there's a sense of accomplishment, that the vehicle is in better shape .. all that good stuff ...

But what I think is taking place here, is that after a considerable amount of time and vehicles out there, it's easy to predict what and when a particular part would fail. Instead of waiting around for signs, these bmw enthusiasts would rather go ahead and replace the part.

I personally like to see a sign to prompt me to make a change, while maintaining reasonable preventive maintenance.

Originally Posted by Airborne82id

From what Ive read, he enjoys doing that ... and I can see how and why; there's a sense of accomplishment, that the vehicle is in better shape .. all that good stuff ...

But what I think is taking place here, is that after a considerable amount of time and vehicles out there, it's easy to predict what and when a particular part would fail. Instead of waiting around for signs, these bmw enthusiasts would rather go ahead and replace the part.

I personally like to see a sign to prompt me to make a change, while maintaining reasonable preventive maintenance.

The things you need to do are things that you can't monitor the wear of very easily. The fuel pump comes to mind and probably the expansion tank as well. The other things show or announce their wear.

Originally Posted by vandyboy

When it comes to admitting their cars have problems, Toyota is far more reluctant than BMW to do so. They've had a sludge problem in their V6 engines for 20 years and refuse to acknowledge it. Remember the brake recall that they said wasn't a problem for years? Toyota would rather have people die than admit their cars have problems.

Signed,
Tyler Durden

So, are you saying that bmws are more reliable than toyota as a brand? I drive one of those v6 sludge machines with no problems. Toyotas get abused buy stupid drivers and keep going. No one gets flamed for not changing their cooling systems when they own a toyota I can tell you that.

This was my water pump after 60k miles:



It sounded like ****. I replaced all the pulleys and belts, new fan clutch and still sounded like that. $60 later and a new pump, car sounds great. Cheap, easy fix.

I have a clicking sound coming from the belt area I think. You think it's my tensioners, idler, or water pump? I'll probably do all of them, but which one goes first usually?

Originally Posted by DougL3NC

One major factor to consider when comparing Japanese to German is:

Name me one Japanese automaker that does NOT recommend replacing the water pump when the timing belt is due? IIRC, most Japanese automakers call for timing belts to be replaced between 60K-80K miles...maybe some are at 100K now. Who really wants to run a water pump through 2 timing belts? Not me and it's not exactly fun to do timing belt jobs on any Japanese car, or do it a second time before it's due again because your ass was too cheap to replace it proactively!

I say give the gold to BMW! At least the damn water pump is EASY to replace if it craps out.

Thank you! When we replaced the timing belt on our 2000 Camry, the dealer told us it was smart to replace the water pump because the job is so difficult to do if the pump starts leaking.

Originally Posted by jfoj

Cadillac NorthStar for the WIN!

Please don't get me started on those monstrosities...

Originally Posted by SteadyMobbin

Hmmm, try telling that to a master tech...
Your logic is flawed. You should thoroughly inspect these items, and if they show any signs of wear and tear, or if your wp is making some noises then yeah go ahead and replace. But if your replacing parts that are working perfectly fine then your just throwing money away...

My logic is never flawed. I've heard some master techs say some pretty outlandish things. I've actually had to school a few on some pretty simple BMW sh!t. They don't impress me one bit.

I don't let my water pumps get to the point to where they're failing. It's such a cheap part, my friend. If you can't afford to replace a $60 pump on a preventive basis, then you probably shouldn't be driving a car.

And by the way, it's you're, not your. They teach that in 4th grade, I'm sure.

Originally Posted by ryannel2003

Thank you! When we replaced the timing belt on our 2000 Camry, the dealer told us it was smart to replace the water pump because the job is so difficult to do if the pump starts leaking.

Yup, I have plenty of experience with the Toyota 5S-FE and 1MZ-FE power plants. A no brainer to replace the water pump and tensioner while doing a timing belt job.

BTW, my mom also had a 99 Camry and that thing left me stranded a couple times.

All my BMWs? The Golden Standard. Never a single problem or a single breakdown. Ever. Period.

That Camry I mentioned by the way had its transmission fail around 160k and burned to the ground shortly after that (car started on fire due to an electrical fault of some sort)

So to whoever said Toyotas are waaaay more reliable than BMWs... not so sure about that. I've also had a number of Hondas which also left me stranded on a few occasions--two of them BRAND NEW off the lot. I've owned many, many, MANY cars.

Originally Posted by Alex323Ci

Another important thing to note is the Recall is for the steering gear that gets the splines worn and can cause steering issues.
The Electric water pump on some of the hybrid Prius is the smaller recall. Their electric water pump may go out then short circuit the relay and then cause the car to stop while driving. This electrical fault is much different from water pumps wearing out. This doesn't instantly shut down our combustion engines in the middle of driving without warning. This is a Safety issue and not Toyota stepping up because they want to be known for longevity.

Common sense, right? Not sure why the OP can't realize this before even posting such a joke of a thread. The instant I read the thread title, I knew it had to be due to the above.

Originally Posted by E46Mango

My logic is never flawed. I've heard some master techs say some pretty outlandish things. I've actually had to school a few on some pretty simple BMW sh!t. They don't impress me one bit.

I don't let my water pumps get to the point to where they're failing. It's such a cheap part, my friend. If you can't afford to replace a $60 pump on a preventive basis, then you probably shouldn't be driving a car.

And by the way, it's you're, not your. They teach that in 4th grade, I'm sure.

I tend to agree. But on the flip side - if a water pump doesn't have an established history of failing early or catastrophically, and replacement costs $500+ (as in the E90's and S54's case), then I think I'd hesitate to replace one that's currently functioning properly

Originally Posted by TerraPhantm

I tend to agree. But on the flip side - if a water pump doesn't have an established history of failing early or catastrophically, and replacement costs $500+ (as in the E90's and S54's case), then I think I'd hesitate.

Of course. I know the costs of the above mentioned pumps. That's why I said $60 pump. If I had the above cars, I think I'd combine an AAA membership with a bit of preventive basis.

Originally Posted by E46Mango

Yup, I have plenty of experience with the Toyota 5S-FE and 1MZ-FE power plants. A no brainer to replace the water pump and tensioner while doing a timing belt job.

BTW, my mom also had a 99 Camry and that thing left me stranded a couple times.

All my BMWs? The Golden Standard. Never a single problem or a single breakdown. Ever. Period.

That Camry I mentioned by the way had its transmission fail around 160k and burned to the ground shortly after that (car started on fire due to an electrical fault of some sort)

So to whoever said Toyotas are waaaay more reliable than BMWs... not so sure about that. I've also had a number of Hondas which also left me stranded on a few occasions--two of them BRAND NEW off the lot. I've owned many, many, MANY cars.

Toyota has been mad reliable for us. The only thing that has broken was one of the sunroof tracks, but it doesn't leak. It's the car we use when something is wrong with one of our cars or we need something that gets good gas mileage. Transmission is starting to shift rough though. Paint isn't in great shape. But it's a great car. Easy to work on too. But honestly I don't think I would call it more reliable than my BMW. The BMW has been a great car too, and it was neglected before I purchased it.

The only thing defective here is the ridiculous notion that parts are supposed to last forever.

Originally Posted by golf_234

News flash.. bmw really doesnt care much about reliability. At least as a major facet. Sportscars by default are generally more involved to take care of than a family towncar. For toyota it is their livelihood.

^ this is spot on.

Want a car that will last forever without you spending much money? You're in the wrong brand, buddy.

Originally Posted by ryannel2003

Toyota has been mad reliable for us. The only thing that has broken was one of the sunroof tracks, but it doesn't leak. It's the car we use when something is wrong with one of our cars or we need something that gets good gas mileage. Transmission is starting to shift rough though. Paint isn't in great shape. But it's a great car. Easy to work on too. But honestly I don't think I would call it more reliable than my BMW. The BMW has been a great car too, and it was neglected before I purchased it.

Yeah. my friend has an Echo that has been dead reliable. has over 200k. never a single problem.

But it's an Echo

So I'll leave the Toyotas to the grandmas and soulless people of the world.

Personally, I think all grandmas should drive X5Ms.

Originally Posted by E46Mango

My logic is never flawed.

And that's the attitude that is getting you so much hate as of late. Everybody makes mistakes. I absolutely hate people with this attitude. It is very prevalent in the auto industry where I work, and I go around/ignore people like that because they are not worth dealing with.

I have to agree with you on the "master tech" thing though. First of all, I hate that phrase. It is an absurd title that techs give themselves. Most that do are hardly masters at all. Second, they work on so many cars that they are really just general technicians who are masters of no particular model at all.

Originally Posted by E46Mango

Yeah. my friend has an Echo that has been dead reliable. has over 200k. never a single problem.

But it's an Echo

So I'll leave the Toyotas to the grandmas and soulless people of the world.

Personally, I think all grandmas should drive X5Ms.

It was my first car. Boring. Plain. But, reliable. Moved to Cadillac STS. Put that in a ditch (oops). Now I'm with BMW and I plan on staying with the BMW. Best mixture of performance and luxury; even with a 323i!

Originally Posted by WDE46

And that's the attitude that is getting you so much hate as of late. Everybody makes mistakes. I absolutely hate people with this attitude. It is very prevalent in the auto industry where I work, and I go around/ignore people like that because they are not worth dealing with.

I've always said I don't claim to know everything. I leave topics alone I don't know about and I ask a lot of respected members here a lot of questions about things. If you can't see that, then I understand. You've only been a member here for months.

Don't pretend to know me when you just signed up on this forum.

If you hate me, ignore me. Easiest thing to do.

Originally Posted by E46Mango

Yeah. my friend has an Echo that has been dead reliable. has over 200k. never a single problem.

But it's an Echo

So I'll leave the Toyotas to the grandmas and soulless people of the world.

Personally, I think all grandmas should drive X5Ms.

I would love to own one in the future, if I can afford the gas. They seem like an incredible road trip car.

Originally Posted by E46Mango

I've always said I don't claim to know everything. I leave topics alone I don't know about and I ask a lot of respected members here a lot of questions about things. If you can't see that, then I understand. You've only been a member here for months.

Don't pretend to know me when you just signed up on this forum.

If you hate me, ignore me. Easiest thing to do.

I don't hate you Mango, but your attitude does not mesh well with many people here. I don't pretend to know you either. Also, I believe a few months of observation is good enough. I've always been good at sizing people up.

Originally Posted by Brinkley

So, are you saying that bmws are more reliable than toyota as a brand? I drive one of those v6 sludge machines with no problems. Toyotas get abused buy stupid drivers and keep going. No one gets flamed for not changing their cooling systems when they own a toyota I can tell you that.

Read it again. I did not say BMWs are more reliable than Toyotas.