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Old 11-15-2012, 09:19 PM   #21
Stinger9
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Originally Posted by stevodotorg View Post

I did change the valve cover gasket 3 months ago, but shows no sign of leaks, is it possible something fell down in there during the process?
Unlikely a blocked return would cause this. You'd still get pressure to the bearing.

+1 on Zell's hypothesis of oil pump nut.

Gotta check all the others for pre-fail.

Last edited by Stinger9; 11-15-2012 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:23 PM   #22
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Unlikely a blocked return would cause this. You'd still get pressure to the bearing.

+1 on Zell's hypothesis of oil pump nut.

Gotta check all the others for pre-fail.
But will the car run without an oil pump nut? And how would an oil pump nut cause all of this to happen?
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:44 PM   #23
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I thought the oil nut issue only effected 330I engines....
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:07 PM   #24
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But will the car run without an oil pump nut? And how would an oil pump nut cause all of this to happen?
Not the expert on this, but heard others say there is an oil pump nut that loosens rarely and causes low oil pressure. If you have low pressure, should not drive your car at all. Could cause way more damage than you have now.
Then need whole new engine.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:22 PM   #25
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I'm pretty sure the oil pump nut backing off results in 0 oil pressure, ie an all-or-nothing failure.

I also think that if an engine was ran with no pressure, you'd have similar wear on all parts, not just the one cylinder. There's no telling what the bottom end looks like if the cam bearing (and the lobes, by the look of it) looks like that. My gut feeling, however, is that there is more here than meets the eye. If you're unable to dismantle things any further, you should probably take it to a shop. I would say that the oil pan needs to come off to have a look at the bare minimum, and a used head is probably cheaper than repairing that one.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:24 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by stevenluczynski View Post
I thought the oil nut issue only effected 330I engines....
I don't know about only 330I's but they are more prone from what I have read.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:58 AM   #27
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Only things I could find in relation to this..

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1305170
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1615386
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1879013
http://www.7machine.com/bmw/40361.html

No causes other than what the DIS says on various posts..

Quote:
CAUSE
The VANOS faults can be caused by an insufficient oil pressure supply to the inlet VANOS adjustment unit. To effectively move the camshafts to the target positions in the specified time and under all engine conditions, sufficient oil pressure supply to the VANOS control pistons must always be available. When the engine operation requires that the VANOS quickly advance or retard the intake or exhaust camshaft, fault 2A82 or 2A87 may be set if the camshaft is “late”, or does not reach the target position. In this situation, engine power may be reduced and a check control message is displayed. The consequential fault 3100 can also be set in the DME fault memory as well.

PROCEDURE

Perform all applicable test plans for the faults stored. A mechanical restriction or electrical failure of the VANOS solenoid and/or the electrical circuit can cause insufficient oil supply to the VANOS assemblies as well. If the results of the test plans are inconclusive then proceed to step 2.



The oil filter cap insert may have been inadvertently removed during the vehicle’s last oil service. If this insert is not installed, it will result in non-filtered engine oil being supplied to the engine, thus possibly clogging or damaging the VANOS solenoids.


Replace both VANOS solenoids and change the engine oil and filter. Drive the vehicle to verify effectiveness. If this repair is inconclusive and the fault returns, continue to step 4.

If the oil filter cap is found intact, it is possible that the camshaft hook ring seals (3) have worn a groove into the camshaft bearing ledge (1), causing a drop in oil supply to the VANOS unit.


Camshaft bearing ledge

Intake camshaft

Hook ring seals

Note the deep grooves worn into the intake camshaft bearing ledge by the camshaft hook ring seals.

Acceptable camshaft bearing ledge – minor wear marks from the rotation of the camshaft are normal.

If the oil filter cap insert is found to be missing, then the entire oil filter housing cap must be replaced (refer to the EPC). If excessive wear to the camshaft bearing ledge is found, it is only necessary to replace the camshaft hook ring seals and the affected camshaft bearing ledge.
I figure, perhaps if I did replace the camshaft and the camshaft bearing ledge, everything might end up okay. I still think I should take it in though, does anyone know of anyone reasonable in the LA / Orange County area to take it in to?
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:01 AM   #28
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I'm pretty sure the oil pump nut backing off results in 0 oil pressure, ie an all-or-nothing failure.

I also think that if an engine was ran with no pressure, you'd have similar wear on all parts, not just the one cylinder. There's no telling what the bottom end looks like if the cam bearing (and the lobes, by the look of it) looks like that. My gut feeling, however, is that there is more here than meets the eye. If you're unable to dismantle things any further, you should probably take it to a shop. I would say that the oil pan needs to come off to have a look at the bare minimum, and a used head is probably cheaper than repairing that one.
You are probably right about the head, it surely would probably be cheaper.. Not sure about the oil pan though, why would it need to be dropped?

Something interesting to add, when I removed the bolts to the camshaft bearing cap that was black, the bolts were already way loose.. which is very strange.. perhaps part of the problem?
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:01 AM   #29
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Were any of the bolts loose on the other caps?

You need to pull the oil pan because you don't know if you have issues on the bottom end as well. If the cam bearings look that bad, you may have issues with main and rod bearings too....assuming it's an oil-pressure-related problem. I would look, if only for peace of mind.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:22 AM   #30
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I'm thinking the bearing failures were due to some foreign material getting into the head when the VCG job was done.

An brief intermittent oil pressure issue probably wouldn't result in the amount of damage that you have. More likely, the disintegration of the bearings lead to the intermittent oil pressure problem. Bearing #3may have lead to the failure of #4 or both may have been subject to some foreign material.

Whether the problems are independent or related, you still need to do your due diligence and investigate every bit of the engine that you can for additional damage. Drop the pan as others have said - you have to take a look. You may also want to do compression & leak down tests to determine the health of your cylinders & valves - those metal flakes seen in your pictures are very disturbing - who knows what bits have traveled where in the engine at this point.

Also check the entire oiling system. Look for debris in the pan, the oil filter, everywhere!

You have a lot of investigation to do before you even consider what direction to go in.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:56 AM   #31
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Were any of the bolts loose on the other caps?

You need to pull the oil pan because you don't know if you have issues on the bottom end as well. If the cam bearings look that bad, you may have issues with main and rod bearings too....assuming it's an oil-pressure-related problem. I would look, if only for peace of mind.
Especially with the swarf from those knackered bearings floating around in the oil. That metal had to go somewhere and it has to go via the sump before it gets to the oil filter.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:05 AM   #32
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That was pretty isolated to only effect that one bearing the way it did. It looks like something got clogged in the oil feed to that bearing, not the return. With that bearing spun and getting as hot as it did probably accounts for the loose nuts. The metal looks like it got so hot it's tempered.

+1 on dropping the pan. Something blocked that oil supply, more of it may be in the bottom of the pan. As said there may be more damage on the bottom end too.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:35 PM   #33
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I'm thinking the bearing failures were due to some foreign material getting into the head when the VCG job was done.

An brief intermittent oil pressure issue probably wouldn't result in the amount of damage that you have. More likely, the disintegration of the bearings lead to the intermittent oil pressure problem. Bearing #3may have lead to the failure of #4 or both may have been subject to some foreign material.

Whether the problems are independent or related, you still need to do your due diligence and investigate every bit of the engine that you can for additional damage. Drop the pan as others have said - you have to take a look. You may also want to do compression & leak down tests to determine the health of your cylinders & valves - those metal flakes seen in your pictures are very disturbing - who knows what bits have traveled where in the engine at this point.

Also check the entire oiling system. Look for debris in the pan, the oil filter, everywhere!

You have a lot of investigation to do before you even consider what direction to go in.
Thanks much for your input, I really appreciate it, now I just have to decide if I should go to a shop or just drop the oil pan myself and further inspect it. I mean, would an indy shop look further into it than I can do myself?

So far on the inspection list:

-Check intake cams
-Compression test
-Check oilpan for foreign objects

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumCranium View Post
That was pretty isolated to only effect that one bearing the way it did. It looks like something got clogged in the oil feed to that bearing, not the return. With that bearing spun and getting as hot as it did probably accounts for the loose nuts. The metal looks like it got so hot it's tempered.

+1 on dropping the pan. Something blocked that oil supply, more of it may be in the bottom of the pan. As said there may be more damage on the bottom end too.
I agree on that accounting for the loose nuts, simply makes sense, and it's definitely tempered, not to mention, charred.

Again, thanks for reading this whole mess, I really do appreciate your input.
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Last edited by stevodotorg; 11-16-2012 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:42 PM   #34
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Also, should the vanos look dark like it does? It looks as perhaps the vanos got hot too..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x9006wwrn5...2010.43.30.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/plkytxs1q3...2010.43.45.jpg

Could the vanos have been going through oil starvation as well? or is it normal to be a little dark over there..?
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:08 PM   #35
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Thanks much for your input, I really appreciate it, now I just have to decide if I should go to a shop or just drop the oil pan myself and further inspect it. I mean, would an indy shop look further into it than I can do myself?
If you have an engine brace to hold the motor up and dont mind being aggravated for a few hours then you can save a ton of money if you drop the oil pan yourself. If you would like to just do it yourself and need the brace then you should be able to get one for about 70 - 80 bucks.

Wrestling with the sub-frame is probably the worse part of it.

Good luck.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:21 PM   #36
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Also, should the vanos look dark like it does? It looks as perhaps the vanos got hot too..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x9006wwrn5...2010.43.30.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/plkytxs1q3...2010.43.45.jpg

Could the vanos have been going through oil starvation as well? or is it normal to be a little dark over there..?
perhaps that little bit of metal got in there during the VCG change and got stuck under that particular cam bearing holder. and if it got stuck in there maybe it would grind the grooves into the came like in your pic and cause it to heat up a lot due to the friction that is not normally there.

The darkened vanos units looks normal to me, check other valve cover gasket replacement threads to see some pics of other people's cars to compare, but from what I recall, both my and my wife's vanos units looked dark like that.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:28 PM   #37
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If you have an engine brace to hold the motor up and dont mind being aggravated for a few hours then you can save a ton of money if you drop the oil pan yourself. If you would like to just do it yourself and need the brace then you should be able to get one for about 70 - 80 bucks.

Wrestling with the sub-frame is probably the worse part of it.

Good luck.
Couldn't be any worse than manhandling the transmission.. my friend and I replaced my clutch, flywheel, rear main seal, pilot bearing, throwout bearing etc.. putting the parts in was chump change compared to taking the transmission off and putting it back on.. but it worked out great once we finished (I still need to make a thread on the process with some tips).

Dropping the oil pan seems like it wouldn't be terrible, but installing the new camshaft is a completely new animal him and I have never messed with yet.

Any DIY links would be greatly appreciated
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:25 PM   #38
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http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...oving+camshaft
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:08 PM   #39
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add compression leak down to your list also...

compression test is good, but you'll want a compression leak down test also - can help you diagnose bad cylinder/piston/rings vs just bad valves...
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:34 PM   #40
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If you have an engine brace to hold the motor up and dont mind being aggravated for a few hours then you can save a ton of money if you drop the oil pan yourself. If you would like to just do it yourself and need the brace then you should be able to get one for about 70 - 80 bucks.
Harbor Freight is the place to look for this tool.
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