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///M3 Forum
The BMW E46 ///M3 is the M version E46 and puts out an amazing 333 HP and 262 lb-ft of torque at stock specs! There are an amazing amount of modifications for both the coupe and convertible models so read up and get started modifying your cars today!

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Old 11-14-2012, 04:08 PM   #41
DSilk56
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Let's all get a grip. Dealerships are businesses that exist to make a profit, just like your local independent garage. There are pluses and minuses to servicing your car at either, and only each individual can make the decision as to which facility suits him or her the best. Dealerships tend to be somewhat less flexible with respect to costs, since they charge "book" hours for work done (most indies do the same, but will adjust for you if they know you) and are required to use only OEM parts for replacement. The biggest advantage of a dealership is that their mechanics (technicians) are trained through the factory and only service BMW's. This means that they will have the right tools for any job, no matter how esoteric. Most independent shops service a wide variety of cars, and your M3 may sit in a bay alongside a Nissan Altima and a Ford Focus. I have gotten good service from both dealerships and independent garages, but I only go to the latter after I have gotten good recommendations from mechanics I trust and after I have gotten to know the independent shop in question. I also try to do much of the simple work (brake pads and rotors, e.g.) myself.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:18 PM   #42
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I do all work myself. Anything from a oil change to rebuilding the engine. No I didn't go to school or anything. Since childhood was interested in cars and loved taking stuff apart and putting it together.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by DSilk56 View Post
The biggest advantage of a dealership is that their mechanics (technicians) are trained through the factory and only service BMW's.
LOL

Most dealership mechanics are glorified part swappers with little training in diagnosing issues outside what is in the "system". Thus why they are blindly recommending changing the entire cooling system.

Many dealership mechanics are NOT "factory trained" as they don't send techs to get certified until they are sure they will stay with the dealership - and dealership techs turn over more often than you'd like to know. Plus the "certified technician" isn't nearly as comprehensive as it sounds.

I'll take a good independent over the dealer any day, and save a bundle in the process.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:49 PM   #44
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The same can be said for any buisness from lawyers to doctors to car dealers. That dealership probably has a crazy overhead expense. You are paying more because like the op stated he does not have the time place tools or know how to do the repairs himself. You are also paying oem prices. Most people wouldn't even know how to look up replacment parts for their car, let alone know how to tell if the ones on their car are bad. This is why they pay a premium for repairs. There are other things to factor in on why the price is so high.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:34 PM   #45
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I do not work at a dealership. I work for a Indy shop.as a tech. But all I see is people bashing the dealer when these posts come up all the time. Changing the coolant for 1600 bucks may include those hoses. Thermostat and gasket. Coolant, labour shop supplies. The small things add up.

Go to another shop for a quote. That's really your best bet. And 2nd don't be alarmed at high prices for parts n labour....you own a m3. It's no dodge neon.

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Old 11-14-2012, 10:07 PM   #46
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The same can be said for any buisness from lawyers to doctors to car dealers. That dealership probably has a crazy overhead expense. You are paying more because like the op stated he does not have the time place tools or know how to do the repairs himself. You are also paying oem prices. Most people wouldn't even know how to look up replacment parts for their car, let alone know how to tell if the ones on their car are bad. This is why they pay a premium for repairs. There are other things to factor in on why the price is so high.
Well made point

Vitalik thats great that you can do the repairs yourself. And yes there are lots of DIYs on this fourms and others and on youtube ETC. But his quote on rear brakes was $700 or so including Rotors. On TWS they offer oem brakes rear rotors and pads for $380usd.+tax.. and ur looking at a minimum of 2 hours labour.. so say the shop is at least $100/hr thats another 200...so now ur at 580. Plus Shop supplies, brake fluid etc. i can see 700 for rear brakes.

like i said before. if a shop gives you a list of repairs make sure you ask for specs, and if they can show you the vehicle if its still on the hoist or take pictures so that they can back them selves up. Or get another indy shop to take a look
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:50 PM   #47
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No offense...but dealerships are still charging ridiculous prices because of people like yourself.

Seriously no offense, but they can charge that because some people are to scared to do it themselves or take it to another shop to do so.

EVERYthing that I have done I watched youtube and read forums to do it... every single thing.

Headers/cats/fluid changes/transmissions/belts/spark plugs/coils/exhaust/RTAB, etc.

A friend did my valve adjustment and that only costed 1/4 of the price of what BMW was charging...

PLEASE take it to another shop or do most of that stupid lil **** by yourself dood...


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Go do it, you got it man, just take it slowly.. especially if you have a garage or jack stands and such.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:28 PM   #48
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I am not sure what the dealership/indy hate is about. If you know cars and trust them they do a good job, are trained, etc.

My indy tells me what I want is not what I need often and I respect that.

My local dealers have both overcharged me and I became a one time customer.

Dealerships charge more than indy usually because they go through a more through inspection (way to conservative usually) process when they are good.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:13 AM   #49
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I am not sure what the dealership/indy hate is about. If you know cars and trust them they do a good job, are trained, etc.
Well, it could be the 50-100% markup on the parts, lackluster service (especially if it is an older car), the horrible overhead that drives up labor costs, lazy, half assed diagnostics that mostly involve swapping out expensive parts until the light goes off, free maintenance schedules designed by accountants instead of actual requirements, that leaves used cars in less than desirable shape, even if they followed the "factory dictated service schedule", covering up of known issues until the customer specifically asks about a particular issue, flat out lying about or denying known issues until the warranty runs out, or estimates like this, that can be DIY'd for about 1/4 of the cost. Take your pick.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:22 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by DSilk56 View Post
Let's all get a grip. Dealerships are businesses that exist to make a profit, just like your local independent garage. There are pluses and minuses to servicing your car at either, and only each individual can make the decision as to which facility suits him or her the best. Dealerships tend to be somewhat less flexible with respect to costs, since they charge "book" hours for work done (most indies do the same, but will adjust for you if they know you) and are required to use only OEM parts for replacement. The biggest advantage of a dealership is that their mechanics (technicians) are trained through the factory and only service BMW's. This means that they will have the right tools for any job, no matter how esoteric. Most independent shops service a wide variety of cars, and your M3 may sit in a bay alongside a Nissan Altima and a Ford Focus. I have gotten good service from both dealerships and independent garages, but I only go to the latter after I have gotten good recommendations from mechanics I trust and after I have gotten to know the independent shop in question. I also try to do much of the simple work (brake pads and rotors, e.g.) myself.
Jacking up the service costs, just to pay for an overblown showroom, is not cool. Charge more for the cars, if you need to pay for that. And not all techs are Factory Trained. In fact, in a lot of shops, only a few of the techs have gone through full Factory training. They don't all necessarily have the full set of specialized tools. That is just what the factory reccomends. It does not mean that the dealership buys them. The service rates are overblown, and many of them just replace parts until the problem goes away, rather than actually diagnosing the issue. Throw in the hyper-inflated parts costs, and there is a lot of reason to hate the dealerships. Estimates like the OP posted certainly do not help with this perception.

Last edited by MJLavelle; 11-17-2012 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:57 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by ///M3.22 View Post
So I bought my 2004 m3 into the dealership today as my service light came on and I know I needed rear brakes, brake fluid flush and my washer fluid pump was broke. My car has roughly 62K miles on it and I already had Inspection I and II completed. When I got to the dealership they informed me that I was do for an Inspection service which would run about $1,600, brake fluid flush about $220, rear brakes $780. So this would have cost around $2,600 which is not chump change but reasonable (at least I consider it reasonable since I purchased an expensive car and I expect it to cost a decent amount to maintain).

Then I got the call for the dealership with the laundry list of things that I needed done. Please let me think if you guys think I am completely getting taken advantage of on based on the service and prices:

**All prices include tax and labor**

Tune Up/Inspection Service - 1,778
Wash fluid pump - 227
Rear Brakes (Rotors) - 781
Rear Control Arms - 667
Rear shock mounts - 460
Alignment - 300
Drive Belts - 276
Replace all hoses - 1,598

Total Cost = 6,087

Regarding the suspension I was told that my control arms were bent, could have been from hitting a pot hole or something. Said I didn't need to have it done right away but will cause tires to wear unevenly. Dealership told me my hoses and belts were on their way out. Said hoses were important because it would not be good if they broke and fluid got all over the engine (also said these should be replaced every 5 years).
I live in Huntington, I sent you a msg, i'd be glad to help you out. I sent you a PM with my number. Let me know if you're interested. I used to own a 02 E46 M3, i'm currently driving a 325ci E46.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:25 AM   #52
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Tune Up/Inspection Service - 1,778
Wash fluid pump - 227 LOL
Rear Brakes (Rotors) - 781 LOL
Rear Control Arms - 667 eh... i guess if you want to replace the trailing arms too from the junkyard.
Rear shock mounts - 460 LOL
Alignment - 300 WHAT THE FULOLOLOLOL
Drive Belts - 276 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Replace all hoses - 1,598 OHHH MY GODDDd

those prices are priceless. hey man, i know you have an m3. ill sell you this bottle of astroglide for 200% markup before I **** you to make it easier.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:11 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Rotha View Post
Tune Up/Inspection Service - 1,778
Wash fluid pump - 227 LOL
Rear Brakes (Rotors) - 781 LOL
Rear Control Arms - 667 eh... i guess if you want to replace the trailing arms too from the junkyard.
Rear shock mounts - 460 LOL
Alignment - 300 WHAT THE FULOLOLOLOL
Drive Belts - 276 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Replace all hoses - 1,598 OHHH MY GODDDd

those prices are priceless. hey man, i know you have an m3. ill sell you this bottle of astroglide for 200% markup before I **** you to make it easier.
Man those prices....WHY DO PEOPLE INSIST ON TAKING IT TO THE DEALERSHIP????
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:18 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Rotha View Post
Tune Up/Inspection Service - 1,778
Wash fluid pump - 227 LOL
Rear Brakes (Rotors) - 781 LOL
Rear Control Arms - 667 eh... i guess if you want to replace the trailing arms too from the junkyard.
Rear shock mounts - 460 LOL
Alignment - 300 WHAT THE FULOLOLOLOL
Drive Belts - 276 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Replace all hoses - 1,598 OHHH MY GODDDd

those prices are priceless. hey man, i know you have an m3. ill sell you this bottle of astroglide for 200% markup before I **** you to make it easier.
While some of these prices are absurdly high ($227 to replace a washer pump that can be purchased for under $30 and takes less than half an hour to install), others are not. Rear brake rotors, for example. I have done my own, and it takes between 1 and 2 hours to do properly. OEM rotors cost about $250, good pads will cost you an additional $170, and the brake wear sensor will cost you about $11 (it can be a pain to install). You should also check the status of your hand brake at this time, which may need parts and service at the same time. Thus, you have around $430 in parts (or more) plus a couple of hours of time in labor. $780 isn't so absurd.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:50 PM   #55
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Most of you guys are bringing up good points. I would like to point out that I made a mistake of going to the dealership and giving them the go ahead to do the repairs without getting a second opinion. However, there are a couple of reasons I did this. Number 1, my car was under full service warranty until recently so I had no reason to go anywhere else prior to this. Number 2, prior to this car I owned a VR6 Jetta and had performance work and maintenance performed by different people who came highly recommended on VW forums (just like this one), over the 4 years I had the car there was nothing but problems. Every time I took it to another shop to get fixed/maintenance/work done they would all be like who the f*** did this to your car, it was always one shop blaming something on someone else. Eventually when I took it to a VW dealership to replace my busted transmission my warranty was voided due to the mess everyone else created. Worse of all I was constantly borrowing peoples cars when mine was being worked on to get to work and stuff. When I finally got my M3 i promised myself this would not happen.

I work a job where I do not have the free time to perform work on it. What would happen if I tried to repair something over a weekend, messed up and then could not get to work on Monday? So I am willing to pay a little extra for the convenience and piece of mind, however, I do acknowledge that I paid to much and need to find a good indy shop. Unfortunately this was an expensive learning experience. I was able to talk the dealership down once I told them I knew I was over paying and was able to get roughly $1000 off. I pretty much ripped into them and was able to get something out of it.

As for those who are ripping me for this, I don't really understand. I came on here for help and made a mistake - I was just looking for advice did not need all the bashing.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:29 AM   #56
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780 for rear brakes!! i just did my rears yesterday rotors pads and sensors. I am just learning as well. There are so many DIY's its so simple with even borrowed hand tools. paid about 175 for rears ... just read post above. understandable dude but find a good indy
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:02 AM   #57
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I took mine to a shop i had some spare rotors and I ordered cool carbon pads for all around, costed about 450.00 after install.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:06 PM   #58
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Tons of quality shops in the long island new york area. Just head over to the new york section and look for shop reviews. I can think of three great ones off the top of my head.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=787007
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:05 PM   #59
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780 for rear brakes!! i just did my rears yesterday rotors pads and sensors. I am just learning as well. There are so many DIY's its so simple with even borrowed hand tools. paid about 175 for rears ... just read post above. understandable dude but find a good indy
You don't have a M3 though. Even non-BMW is over $200 for rotors.

It's gets more brain damage for rotors on the ZCP.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:12 PM   #60
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one of my eye concern is alignment for $300??? My friend's shop can do alignment for only $80 for any car.
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