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Old 11-15-2012, 09:23 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8dum1 View Post
considering FSR just made 906whp on a simple cast log manifold with a 6466 on a 3.0L supra, it might want to make you guys rethink spending tons of money on a tubular manifold.....

Trust me ill spend no money until proof. I dont think its going to be as awesome as people think.....

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Old 11-15-2012, 01:35 PM   #42
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Trust me ill spend no money until proof. I dont think its going to be as awesome as people think.....

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I actually agree with this.. I'm pretty confident the manifold is not the bottleneck here.. that said I'm not against a better manifold, but I don't think the 'answer to all our problems' is the manifold.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:23 PM   #43
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What do you think the bottle neck is? The M3 makes great power up to about 900 rwhp and then seems choked. The cylinder head is superior to most of the cars we build. Intake manifold and TBs are certainly not the problem. What else could it be?
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:40 PM   #44
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Well looking at the turbo and manifold side by side the other week while putting my new 6766 turbo on the turbo itself looks like the bottleneck....cant you get bigger exhaust side? Adds lag but more top end? Supras in comparison might not have this same problem with same turbos because they flow less volume? Idk just an idea...

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Old 11-15-2012, 09:03 PM   #45
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It is not the turbo, people have tried the 7175 turbos and they seem to cap around 900 also. The 7175 has a much larger turbine wheel!
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:31 AM   #46
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Well looking at the turbo and manifold side by side the other week while putting my new 6766 turbo on the turbo itself looks like the bottleneck....cant you get bigger exhaust side? Adds lag but more top end? Supras in comparison might not have this same problem with same turbos because they flow less volume? Idk just an idea...

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I"m running a 7275, didn't gain power.. still making just under 900rwhp.. added lots of lag.. :\
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:37 AM   #47
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:10 AM   #48
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well, for us HPF Kit owners that ARE NOT Considering changing to a Tubular exhaust manifold can relax.


The "Low Mount" Charge pipe we saw in the pic on Page 1 was NOT built to fit the HPF car, it was built to fit there turbo kit with a tubular manifold :-)
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:24 AM   #49
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I"m running a 7275, didn't gain power.. still making just under 900rwhp.. added lots of lag.. :\

Exactly, you should have picked up over 100 HP. There is a bottleneck and it is not the turbo. HPF had a 8285 on their car and it barely made 1000. It should be making close to 1300 with that turbo!
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:37 PM   #50
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Exactly, you should have picked up over 100 HP. There is a bottleneck and it is not the turbo. HPF had a 8285 on their car and it barely made 1000. It should be making close to 1300 with that turbo!
The hpf drag car has a huge tubi mani....and even thou it has the auto it makes a little over 800whp, if it had the manual where do you think it would be? Not much past 1000whp which has been done on the log mani

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Old 11-16-2012, 10:52 PM   #51
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Exactly, you should have picked up over 100 HP. There is a bottleneck and it is not the turbo. HPF had a 8285 on their car and it barely made 1000. It should be making close to 1300 with that turbo!
If anyone remembers.. roughly a year ago all the rage was that the intake was the bottleneck.. so HPF rerouted theirs by removing the AC in their track car, made a little more.. but not much.. Then Saad came up with a creative solution as well, routing it up from, from down below just before the oil cooler.. picked up a little power as well. Its not the intake manifold as HPF has a rather large plenum, compared to Saad/ProEFI's smaller plenum.. everyone's run the log style (and semi-tubular Steed Speed) manifolds.. no difference between the two.. so really that leaves pretty much the heads.. and throttle bodies.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:26 AM   #52
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I think a tubular mani can help in a good way. Look at member M5chas' car (pro-efi/saad built); made 890whp on e85 utilizing a Saad built tubular manifold on a 6766.. very impressive for that turbo. Most on the boards are still running the HPF "2piece cast style" manifold, still yeilding good results. The typical stage 3 is making about 850wheel on a 71 trim with race and meth.. Just food for thought
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:51 AM   #53
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Pressure sensors.

Anyone looking for the answer to what the restriction is, needs to employ some pressure sensors.

  • If you think it's pre-turbo: Put a MAP sensor in front of the turbo to log vacuum.
  • If you think it's the charge piping: Run a pressure sensor on the turbo outlet and an ITB, then compare the 2.
  • If you think it's the turbo manifold: Run a pressure sensor pre-turbine housing and in an ITB, and compare the 2. (You're looking at the pressure ratio there)


Rather than throw thousands of $$$ in hardware at a perceived problem, the first thing I would do is get some data.....


I suspect some people have this data....but due to political reasons, don't want to point any fingers.

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Old 11-17-2012, 07:07 AM   #54
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I bet the 6766 on e85 with the steedspeed could make same numbers just fine.

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Old 11-17-2012, 12:28 PM   #55
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Marcus, what exhaust manifold do you have??
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:31 PM   #56
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Pressure sensors.

Anyone looking for the answer to what the restriction is, needs to employ some pressure sensors.

  • If you think it's pre-turbo: Put a MAP sensor in front of the turbo to log vacuum.
  • If you think it's the charge piping: Run a pressure sensor on the turbo outlet and an ITB, then compare the 2.
  • If you think it's the turbo manifold: Run a pressure sensor pre-turbine housing and in an ITB, and compare the 2. (You're looking at the pressure ratio there)


Rather than throw thousands of $$$ in hardware at a perceived problem, the first thing I would do is get some data.....


I suspect some people have this data....but due to political reasons, don't want to point any fingers.

We have done some of that. Jason reported that taking off the HPF intake and replacing it with a 4" setup netted him over 50 hp! We have both measured ex back pressure at the turbo. It is not all that ridiculously high actually but that does not tell us the entire story in a log manifold as because the turbo sits near the rear and the first 5 runners all merge together, there may be high BP at the front cylinders.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:32 PM   #57
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The hpf drag car has a huge tubi mani....and even thou it has the auto it makes a little over 800whp, if it had the manual where do you think it would be? Not much past 1000whp which has been done on the log mani

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Depends on how loose the converter is but typically the manual tranny cars dyno about 100 more rwhp for us.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:57 PM   #58
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Marcus, what exhaust manifold do you have??
I was the first to get the HPF Log manifold that replaced the Steed Speed.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:10 PM   #59
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If anyone remembers.. roughly a year ago all the rage was that the intake was the bottleneck.. so HPF rerouted theirs by removing the AC in their track car, made a little more.. but not much.. Then Saad came up with a creative solution as well, routing it up from, from down below just before the oil cooler.. picked up a little power as well. Its not the intake manifold as HPF has a rather large plenum, compared to Saad/ProEFI's smaller plenum.. everyone's run the log style (and semi-tubular Steed Speed) manifolds.. no difference between the two.. so really that leaves pretty much the heads.. and throttle bodies.

I have a hard time believing it is the head though. That head probably flows 40% better than a 2J head if not more. The M stock cams are almost as large as the biggest ones we put in 2Js.
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:19 AM   #60
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I have a hard time believing it is the head though. That head probably flows 40% better than a 2J head if not more. The M stock cams are almost as large as the biggest ones we put in 2Js.
I'm not overly familiar with the 2jz heads, but do you port them for the 1000rwhp or so cars?
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