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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 11-09-2012, 03:57 AM   #1
Reedo302
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Stupid Sh...tuff Firearms Instructors Say

I was going through videos for whatever reason, and came across this guy TheLateBoyScout on YouTube. Anyways, saw his review of Front Sight, and wanted to see what he said about it. I have my own opinions about Front Sight, but I occasionally like to hear what the fans say about it.

Anyways, he calls a failure drill a "Mozambique Drill", or "A Mozambique". I've heard that before, but it's known in the tactical world as a Failure Drill. Then he claims that it's illegal in some circumstances. Then a few minutes later he says the Front Sight instructor told him it's illegal to do "mozambique" to someone (failure drill).

Lethal force is lethal fucking force, except apparently at Front Sight where you're not allowed to give your suspect a closed-casket funeral?
Does not compute, but am I missing something? Likely not.

Likely, what happened is that some instructor heard something from someone who heard something from someone . Then it became gospel and you apparently can't shoot someone a certain lethal way. Deadly force is deadly force, people. Do what you have to do to stop the threat and win the fight.
When you look for training, evaluate who is giving it, and then evaluate what you are being told. If this guy on YouTube had any lick of sense, he would be asking the Front Sight instructor why it's illegal, and then ask to see proof and documentation of it being illegal to do a failure drill on someone.
The fact that the instructor calls it a "Mozambique" and not a Failure Drill is a evidence enough of ineptitude.


Go to 4:50 and watch/listen for about 2 minutes.

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Last edited by Reedo302; 11-09-2012 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:53 AM   #2
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Come on Reedo, youtube is where all the legitimate instructors post their material. Plus, everything on the internet is true. I thought a professional like yourself would know this!








on that note:
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:06 AM   #3
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I always forget that.


Front Sight is a major training organization, and their facility is huge. Them claiming this stuff is a big deal, because they train hundreds, if not thousands of people every year. These are people that could serve on a jury, and now they have bad information. I've talked to Front Sight fanboys, and they worship at the altar of Ignacius Piazza and Front Sight. They will believe this stuff without question. You go shoot someone and failure drill them, and go before a grand jury and one of these yutzes is on the jury, now they will tell everyone on the jury it's illegal to do that.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:49 AM   #4
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thats why it is always important to train with as many competent instructors as possible. hopefully they can undo some of the stupid.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:54 PM   #5
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I think a lot of this too has to do with how you justify why you did what you did. If you have to shoot and you describe it as doing a "Mozambique drill" on the guy, I can see it causing confusion and maybe someone thinks you were only doing a rifle drill on this person and weren't doing something you should have been doing. Many people in this nation are tactically retarded, so that is where we would have to modify our terminology to say something to the effect of "I shot to the chest and the suspect was not stopping or going down, and I believed I had a failure to stop so I transitioned to a head shot to try to continue to stop the threat.", or something similar.

There should be a differentiation between a failure drill and a mozambique. Mozambique is where you hammer to the chest and immediately pop the brain. Failure is where you hammer the chest and pause to assess while remaining on target, and then reengaging in an alternate location because the first volley failed to stop the threat. I know that some programs and branches still endorse pelvic girdle shots as an alternative stop method instead of the brain shot, but I personally find no merit in a pelvic girdle shot when a brain shot is available. Just me.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:47 PM   #6
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Seems like a threat is a threat.. You do what ever is necessary to stop it.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:22 PM   #7
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Well, glad I didn't attend a front sight course.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:13 AM   #8
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Good shot is a good shot.

That video upsets me.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:42 PM   #9
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I hear a lot of things on both sides of the aisle for Front Sight. Some people say that it's great training and they're glad they went, and that it's some of the best training in the world. I've never been there, and I have no plans on going because of A.) what I've heard from a lot of professionals in the training industry, and B.) the way they operate their program like a pyramid scheme.
Training is usually a good thing, so long as you can take away from it effective skills. The problem is that I think a lot of people don't have the capacity to evaluate their training correctly. There is certainly a dichotomy with pistol and carbine training, with one side being marksmanship and the other side being fighting/combat. To the uninitiated, an instructor who excels at marksmanship may seem to be a credible source for learning how to fight with a weapon. I think Front Sight does a poor job at differentiating their training between the two. I've looked through their site and literature before, and if students come in and train with them enough and shoot well enough, they can be asked to be instructors. There are stories on the site of soccer moms becoming instructors. Sorry, but WTF does she know about being in a gunfight? That's where the distinction is.
Markmanship instruction: This is how you hit a target...
Combat Marksmanship: This if how you fucking kill people if you need to..

All the instructors there work off of a script (literally) and have to teach by a very specific lesson plan, save a few top-end specialty courses. So, it's unknown whether this instructor is just a moron, or it this is an institutional shortcoming with the teachings of the program.
Just my $0.02.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:47 PM   #10
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What is the number one combat marksmanship training system in the world at the moment open to civilians?
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:38 PM   #11
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That's subjective. I don't honestly think that one singular system or course could be identified that would stand apart from the rest. Everybody offers something slightly different.
The ones that I know are top notch and would not hesitate to train with:

EAG Tactical
Trident Concepts
RedBackOne
Vickers Tactical
Viking Tactics
Northern Red
Magpul Dynamics
Defoor Performance Shooting (Kyle Defoor)
Pat McNamara
John McPhee
Ken Hackathorn
Haley Strategic
Costa Ludus
SouthNarc
Tactical Night Vision Company (TNVC)
alias Training and Security Services
CTT Solutions (Mike Pannone)
Yavapai Firearms Academy (Louis Awerbuck)
Telluric Group


Locations:
Gunsite
US Training Center
Rifle Country
Rifles Only
GPS Defense
LMS Defense
Thunder Ranch
SureFire Institute
STA Training Group
Alliance, OH LE facility




Just to name a few..
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Last edited by Reedo302; 11-10-2012 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:24 PM   #12
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I like how he uses "thoracic cavity" and "ocular cavity" to make himself sound smarter.

"Did you do a 'Mozambique'?"
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:15 PM   #13
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on my flight from Vegas to Cali on Sunday, I saw a bunch of guys wearing t-shirts/jackets bearing either the Front Sight logo, or some other firearms related advertising. I figure they were all coming from a training class and it reminded me of this thread
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